Lost cat

[kalinka]

Kallinka i am sorry but i can't follow

Checking also the natural ruler for the cat and not only the accidental one, is not intuition, but a common approach in horary in lost animals or objects, for the same reason we also rarely use moon ...etc. However "intuition" would have been to say that you knew "instinctively" that the querent will find his lost cat in 4 days, still you couldn't justify this astrologically.

That being said,are we all referring to the charts in this thread or charts you cast based on sidereal? I would kindly ask you, if possible not to mix different Technics or charts, so we can all speak the same language and communicate, especially since in this thread the charts are based on tropical.So what do you mean "to use a natural ruler instead of the accidental ruler, for example. And I'm looking for all indications not only at a single one. Mercury/Venus conjunction would probably match better as timer."?
which is the natural ruler you are you referring to? why would Mercury/Venus conjunction give the time? what is mercury? and what is venus? in which chart and according to tropical or sidereal?

I mean, when we have more than only one option as significator for the cat. The cat in this chart (tropical) could be Jupiter, Saturn and even mercury-because mercury natural rules pets and Asc-ruler Venus is in the rulership of mercury. What I saw is the degree of Venus/ Mercury and Saturn/Jupiter. So intuitively thought 4 units (without turning into sidereal zodiac).
I also looked into the sidereal zodiac but our discussion didn't base on it. I only mentioned it now (in the recent post) because I think it shows better why I came to 4 units.

 

[JUPITERASC]

I mean, when we have more than only one option as significator for the cat. The cat in this chart (tropical) could be Jupiter, Saturn and even mercury-because mercury natural rules pets and Asc-ruler Venus is in the rulership of mercury. What I saw is the degree of Venus/ Mercury and Saturn/Jupiter. So intuitively thought 4 units (without turning into sidereal zodiac).
I also looked into the sidereal zodiac but our discussion didn't base on it. I only mentioned it now (in the recent post) because I think it shows better why I came to 4 units.

you use sidereal astrology
this thread uses tropial horary
and now you clearly state that
sidereal VEDIC astrology shows better than tropical how you chose 4 units
not intuition, but sidereal VEDIC CONSCIOUS REASONING

 

[Aria Venue]

I mean, when we have more than only one option as significator for the cat. The cat in this chart (tropical) could be Jupiter, Saturn and even mercury-because mercury natural rules pets and Asc-ruler Venus is in the rulership of mercury. What I saw is the degree of Venus/ Mercury and Saturn/Jupiter. So intuitively thought 4 units (without turning into sidereal zodiac).
I also looked into the sidereal zodiac but our discussion didn't base on it. I only mentioned it now (in the recent post) because I think it shows better why I came to 4 units.

Ok thank you for clarifying this
Still: saturn is a natural sig for pets and not mercury(al biruni, lilly, etc) "cats, dogs, wolves, bears; serpents; animals that live under ground or under stones; animals that have a hard shell (like turtles); black animals (like scorpions, crows, etc); donkeys; mice; animals that creep, etc."

So mercury is not the natural sig for the cat and we can't claim that venus/mercury conjunction gives the time the querent finds his lost cat

 

[kalinka]

you use sidereal astrology
this thread uses tropial horary
and now you clearly state that
sidereal VEDIC astrology shows better than tropical how you chose 4 units
not intuition, but sidereal VEDIC CONSCIOUS REASONING

What you seems to not to understand is that it does not matter if my chose of 4 units was intuitively or conscious..it was a mix of both. the time is seen in the chart, whether with tropical or sidereal zodiac. I know that this thread has a tropical horary (Thanks for mentioned it again).that's why I didn't actually came with vedic astrology arguments first. However-when the time can be seen with vedic methods for the same chart, then the tropical one must show the same outcome and time. But your opinion is that the chart doesn't show the time, with which I don't agree.Or do u want to tell that Vedic astrology is the more accurate system
Of course I'm not always right about time or predictions (but I think better in time predictions than other sort of predictions) but as I already mentioned, I was somehow sure in this case. Otherwise I wouldn't have wrote it. And now you can give me arguments how to see the 4 units in the chart.

 

[kalinka]

Ok thank you for clarifying this
Still: saturn is a natural sig for pets and not mercury(al biruni, lilly, etc) "cats, dogs, wolves, bears; serpents; animals that live under ground or under stones; animals that have a hard shell (like turtles); black animals (like scorpions, crows, etc); donkeys; mice; animals that creep, etc."

So mercury is not the natural sig for the cat and we can't claim that venus/mercury conjunction gives the time the querent finds his lost cat

Not for vedic astrologers. Even Sun and Mars could be natural rulers for the cat. Now you would say, I shouldn't mix the techniques, what I don't do-I'm using the same Karaka/natural ruler if it makes sense for me.

 

[Student of Astrology]

What is the Karaka method, is it available online? Offset: The 6th house (ruler Mercury), is the natural house of small pets, as is the Moon, Venus.

Student of Astrology

 

[Aria Venue]

What you seems to not to understand is that it does not matter if my chose of 4 units was intuitively or conscious..it was a mix of both. the time is seen in the chart, whether with tropical or sidereal zodiac. I know that this thread has a tropical horary (Thanks for mentioned it again).that's why I didn't actually came with vedic astrology arguments first. However-when the time can be seen with vedic methods for the same chart, then the tropical one must show the same outcome and time. But your opinion is that the chart doesn't show the time, with which I don't agree.Or do u want to tell that Vedic astrology is the more accurate system
Of course I'm not always right about time or predictions (but I think better in time predictions than other sort of predictions) but as I already mentioned, I was somehow sure in this case. Otherwise I wouldn't have wrote it. And now you can give me arguments how to see the 4 units in the chart.

Not for vedic astrologers. Even Sun and Mars could be natural rulers for the cat. Now you would say, I shouldn't mix the techniques, what I don't do-I'm using the same Karaka/natural ruler if it makes sense for me.

Dear kalinka really everyone who reads this thread so far can understand how and why you said 4 units..you saw the degree difference between saturn and Jupiter and you said 4 units...you said it yourself so many times so far, i explained to you so many times that this is wrong, still you don't understand it,, although you say you agree and you never do this, but actually this is what you do.

If you really knew how we calculate time and how western horary works, then you should have never said that.
initially you tried to justify that it doesnt' matter how and when the aspects perfects( jupiter-saturn conjunction november 2020 in aquarious, etc) , then you spoke about intuition, then you tried to justified once more that this wasnt intuition but vedic, then you spoke about almuten (even that is wrong), then you spoke about tol(if this is the case then it gives 2 not 4), then again you said that you agree but once more you insist on intuition or reasoning,then you said that mars, or sun. or mercury or jupiter can be the cat....,,really all these make no sense not only to me but anyone who at least know the basics in traditional astrology, or has the minimum common sense.

Anyway since you don't practice western astrology but vedic mayby is better next time before you comment on a thread based on tropical to clarify that what you say is based on a sidereal chart and in another method of delineation.That way we can understand better your comments, although since no one in this section practice vedic, whatever you claim "whether is right or wrong" cannot be possibly argued astrogically.So that way you may feel safer to say things that make sense only to you and obviously to no one else in this forum.

As far i am concerned, i think it would be better to stop this pointless argument whether in tropical is saturn the natural sig for pets, or whether is mercury or sun or mars in sidereal, or whether you find another planet in these charts that can be the cat and so forth, or if the time is given by venus/mercury, saturn/jupiter or else.

I already explained so many times that:"time was never asked" but if someone wants to see it then can read the reasonable arguments above, about moon aspect to jupiter, or sun, etc...

 

[kalinka]

What is the Karaka method, is it available online? Offset: The 6th house (ruler Mercury), is the natural house of small pets, as is the Moon, Venus.

Student of Astrology

Karaka just means natural ruler

 

[JUPITERASC]

What you seems to not to understand is that
it does not matter if my chose of 4 units

was intuitively

or conscious

..it was a mix of both.

it is important to understand that
traditional horary astrology is clearly BASED ON CONSCIOUS REASONING
and not based on intuition
in any event you have just said you used CONSCIOUS REASONING
and previously you based that CONSCIOUS REASONING
on your use of sidereal vedic conscious reasoning
so that requires stating
because this board is tropical based

the time is seen in the chart, whether with tropical or sidereal zodiac.

HOWEVER
SIGN LOCATION of planets
IS A VARIATBLE BECAUSE

NOT ALWAYS IN SAME SIGN BOTH TROPICALLY AND SIDEREALLY
because
although Astrologers
– whether Tropical or Sidereal
– are commenting on and making predictions
regarding THE IDENTICAL MOON/PLANET in the skies
A computer generated Tropical Chart differs by DEGREE OCCUPIED BY THE MOON
from Sidereal DEGREE OCCUPIED BY MOON
similary with planets
Sidereal location of Moon
may be confirmed BY VISUAL observation of local skies
likewise with planetary location
i.e.

there is a minimum difference of 20° up to a maximum of approximately 24°
between TROPICAL AND SIDEREAL MEASUREMENT
for example
ANY planet at 0° OF any TROPICAL SIGN
is SIDEREALLY between approximately 6° - 10°
to a maximum 24° of the PREVIOUS SIGN
dependent on the ayanamsha

I know that this thread has a tropical horary
(Thanks for mentioned it again)
.that's why I didn't actually came with vedic astrology arguments first.

However-when the time can be seen with vedic methods for the same chart, then
the tropical one must show the same outcome and time.

But your opinion is that the chart doesn't show the time, with which I don't agree.
Or do u want to tell that Vedic astrology is the more accurate system
Of course I'm not always right about time or predictions

(but I think better in time predictions than other sort of predictions)

but as I already mentioned, I was somehow sure in this case.
Otherwise I wouldn't have wrote it.
And now you can give me arguments how to see the 4 units in the chart.

I have clearly shown that TROPICAL SIGN/degree location of planet/Moon/Asscendant
differs from
SIDEREAL SIGN/degree location
and that is indisputable

 

[kalinka]

Dear kalinka really everyone who read this thread so far can understand how and why you said 4 units..you saw the degree difference between saturn and Jupiter and you said 4 units...you said it yourself so many times so far, i explained to you so many times that this is wrong, still you don't understand it,, although you say you agree and you never do this, but actually this is what you do.

If you really knew how we calculate time then you should have never said that.

Anyway since you don't practice western astrology but vedic mayby is better next time before you comment on a thread based on tropical to clarify that what you say is based on a sidereal chart and in another method of delineation.That way we can understand better your comments, although since no one in this section practice vedic, whatever you claim "whether is right or wrong" cannot be possibly argued astrogically.So that way you may feel safer to say things.

As far i am concerned, i think it would be better to stop this pointless argument whether in tropical is saturn the natural sig for pets, or whether is mercury, or whether you find another planet in these charts that can be the cat and so forth, or if the time is given by venus/mercury, saturn/jupiter or else.

I already explained so many times that:"time was never asked" but if someone wants to see it then can read the reasonable arguments above, about moon aspect to jupiter, or sun, etc...

I think we repeat us in our arguments. I said that I agree with u and u seems to understand why I said 4 units but nevertheless u don't want to understand why I give arguments with other methods. I saw the 4 units and then try to explain/chose arguments why it's so. Also I didn't analysed this chart in the vedic way primary. I'm always practising western astrology when it's a tropical chart. But because my "intuition" gave me 4 units, I compared it with the sidereal chart, which gave me again 4 units-so I wrote it. And both methods don't differ that much. You can turn the zodiac yourself and compare it with my explanation. Even if my explanations are wrong, I insist on that the time is seen in the chart. I don't say it because I want to insist on my opinion but it's my experience. tropical and sidereal always show the same outcome and time.
Even if I only read the chart with a sidereal zodiac without looking at the tropical, you would wonder how I come to 4 units.

 

[JUPITERASC]

I think we repeat us in our arguments. I said that I agree with u and u seems to understand why I said 4 units but nevertheless u don't want to understand why I give arguments with other methods. I saw the 4 units and then try to explain/chose arguments why it's so. Also I didn't analysed this chart in the vedic way primary. I'm always practising western astrology when it's a tropical chart. But because my "intuition" gave me 4 units, I compared it with the sidereal chart, which gave me again 4 units-so I wrote it. And both methods don't differ that much. You can turn the zodiac yourself and compare it with my explanation. Even if my explanations are wrong, I insist on that the time is seen in the chart. I don't say it because I want to insist on my opinion but it's my experience. tropical and sidereal always show the same outcome and time.
Even if I only read the chart with a sidereal zodiac

without looking at the tropical,



you would wonder how I come to 4 units.

the fact is that this board is Western Tropical board

and while you say

you are not looking at the western tropical chart
everyone else on the board is viewing the western tropical chart
while you are viewing a sidereal chart

so obviously a sidereal vedica astrologer such as yourself
is going to dispute the tropical approach

 

[kalinka]

the fact is that both zodiacs show the same outcome. So u can explain it to me now how to find the 4 units in the tropical chart. Sometimes the sidereal chart is clearer than the tropical or the other way around but like event charts, horary works the same way.

 

[JUPITERASC]

the fact is that both zodiacs show the same outcome. So u can explain it to me now how to find the 4 units in the tropical chart.
Sometimes the sidereal chart is clearer than the tropical or the other way around but like event charts, horary works the same way.

the fact is a sidereal chart for the same moment as an horary chart
has entirely different planetary SIGN/Ascendant SIGN placements
and obviously
we have a sidereal vedic board that is separate for a reason
i.e.
sidereal astrologers comment and post on our sidereal board
tropical astrologers comment and post on our tropical board
we have no sidereal horary board on our forum
therefore it is important
for any readers of western tropical horary
to be aware
when a sidereal vedic astrologer is posting comments
that are sidereal based
and not tropical based

 

[kalinka]

the fact is a sidereal chart for the same moment as an horary chart
has entirely different planetary SIGN/Ascendant SIGN placements
and obviously
we have a sidereal vedic board that is separate for a reason
i.e.
sidereal astrologers comment and post on our sidereal board
tropical astrologers comment and post on our tropical board
we have no sidereal horary board on our forum
therefore it is important
for any readers of western tropical horary
to be aware
when a sidereal vedic astrologer is posting comments
that are sidereal based
and not tropical based

This nevertheless doesn't answer my question! Do u agree with me that both charts have to show the same outcome? I don't want to discuss any sidereal chart. I want to know how to see the right time in the original chart. You will answer me again that the time isn't seen and wasn't questioned. So we can end the discussion here.

 

[JUPITERASC]

This nevertheless doesn't answer my question!
Do u agree with me that both charts have to show the same outcome?
I don't want to discuss any sidereal chart.
I want to know how to see the right time in the original chart.
You will answer me again that the time isn't seen and wasn't questioned.
So we can end the discussion here.

the discussion ends when the discussion ends
regarding your incessant demands
to discuss HORARY TECHNIQUE on a lost cat thread
you clearly do not know
that we have a separate tropical HORARY TECHNIQUE horary board
for such discussions
if anyone is interested

 

[kalinka]

the discussion ends when the discussion ends
regarding your incessant demands
to discuss HORARY TECHNIQUE on a lost cat thread
you clearly do not know
that we have a separate tropical HORARY TECHNIQUE horary board
for such discussions
if anyone is interested

your replies don't make any sense more and more. I do know that this is a thread with a tropical horary chart to discuss western astrology horary charts!

 

[JUPITERASC]

your replies don't make any sense more and more
. I do know that this is a thread with a tropical horary chart
to discuss western astrology horary charts!

well done - that's the purpose of this board

this board
and not just this thread
discusses tropical western horary
which on this thead specifically
is a tropical chart concerning a lost cat posted by the OP