Reimagining Priapus: The Lunar Perigee

[Mew]

I’ve read a lot of interpretations of this point online and the “consensus” seems to be that it represents merging and that it it the complete opposite of Lilith in that it represents masculine sexuality. But something doesn’t sit right with me. These interpretations aren’t satisfying at all considering there are individuals who have this point conjunct their personal planets, including myself. I have some questions about “Priapus”.

1. Why do we use the myth of Priapus for reference of this point?There doesn’t seem to be much correlation. I feel like this is a misnomer that is creating some biased thought patterns. I’m not sure how the name came about but it seems as though the name and myth is being use it to define this point in its entirety and it seems limit to the potential for actually understanding this point. I don’t think the myth represents this point well enough.

2. The common assumption is since it’s supposedly “opposite” Lilith(Divine Feminity/ Feminine sexuality) it’s suppose to LITERALLY represent the opposite Divine Masculine/ Masculine sexuality. The issue here is that Lilith is referred to being the “dark side” of the moon and is a facet of femininity. So why is the opposite point not also a representation of feminity. Why not the “white side” of the moon? Why not a “hypermoon”?

I feel like considering these three elements Lilith, Moon, and “Priapus” perhaps this presents a “litmus”.

Lilith <— Moon —> “Priapus”

Lilith and Priapus both being “extremes” of the moons function and Moon being “neutral” or “balanced” expression?

I’m happy to hear some thoughts.

 

[waybread]

I can't comment much on Priapus, other than to say that the mythology and graphic [sic] images of him from ancient Greece are pretty off-putting. In today's era of #MeToo movements and more women running for political office, a god whose identity came from his phallus seems out of synch. http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/Priapos.html Anciently I don't suppose there was such a thing as "sacred masculinity" and Priapus was probably an agricultural god.

Having said that, it would be good to do some research on this point, to see how it manifests in a big sample of horoscopes.

In Jewish mythology, Lilith is not the sacred feminine, but a she-demon. If you've read Clarissa Pinkola Estes, Women who Run With the Wolves, I think she gives a good picture of the undomesticated wild woman in us all.

 

[Mew]

I can't comment much on Priapus, other than to say that the mythology and graphic [sic] images of him from ancient Greece are pretty off-putting. In today's era of #MeToo movements and more women running for political office, a god whose identity came from his phallus seems out of synch. http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/Priapos.html Anciently I don't suppose there was such a thing as "sacred masculinity" and Priapus was probably an agricultural god.

Having said that, it would be good to do some research on this point, to see how it manifests in a big sample of horoscopes.

In Jewish mythology, Lilith is not the sacred feminine, but a she-demon. If you've read Clarissa Pinkola Estes, Women who Run With the Wolves, I think she gives a good picture of the undomesticated wild woman in us all.

The first comment made me laugh. I also find the imagery odd but none the less it is what it is lol.

I think irregardles of the current political climate the divine feminine and female sexuality, tantra, and yin have been expounded upon for millennia. I think Lilith as well is a placeholder myth for the phenomena because you can exhange Lilith with multiple archetypes that actually depict the divine feminine across multiple cultures. But the name Lilith has just stuck. I think more research should be put into where Lilith truly is uncontained feminity amd what that opposite point may be in that context. How do these two relate to the moon?

I think my stance on this point opposite Lilith is that it has nothing to do with masculinity at all I think it is still in the realm of femininity.

 

[Frisiangal]

I think more research should be put into where Lilith truly is uncontained feminity amd what that opposite point may be in that context. How do these two relate to the moon?

You might conceive an idea of what the astrological point(s) Lilith mean if you exchange the word 'femininity' with 'inner feeling' or 'imaginative feeling' that are or are not outwardly expressed. In this manner the 'Lilith sense' is applicable to both male and female.

I think my stance on this point opposite Lilith is that it has nothing to do with masculinity at all I think it is still in the realm of femininity

The astrological point Black Moon called Lilith has been given many 'functions', according to the thoughts and ideas of the astrologer(s) concerned. But as it represents a non-physical point and is not a planet of substance, it cannot 'do' anything on its own. It has need of an aspect with a physical body to, what I denote as, 'make its presence felt'.
I have been studying its position since the end of last century. My own thoughts are that its natal position is a natural (dormant?) part of and/or talent within one's nature seeking outer expression. It can also represent a part of one's nature that an individual doesn't care to admit to and is oppressed and denied existence. When this 'sense' is awakened (for lack of a better word),it can no longer remain contained and surfaces ….. and active inner feelings outwardly express its meaning through its opposing natal sign. 'Active' is a word associated with 'masculinity' and this 'outwardly acting' could, in turn, find an association/comparison with the Priapus point.

Simply as an example:
My MEAN Black Moon called Lilith is in the 12th house exact degree conjunct Chiron and partile Virgo Ascendant. It aspects all the personal planets, and Uranus.
My study of astrology could not provide me with a satisfactory explanation (Virgo?) regarding where 'the inner (not physical body)pain one lives with' finds its source. I became interested in the medical side of astrology and its holistic meaning. For years my attention was drawn towards Chiron. Circumstances occured through which I was introduced to Black Moon Lilith that i had never heard of before. I underwent what I have long referred to as 'an inner mystical experience' (Pisces), as a part of me that I had oppressed and denied existence' (self denial) for so long, surfaced and 'made its presence felt'.

There was a lot of self-forgiving, letting go, and working on Self involved. The inner experience changed how I felt regarding and studying the effect of planetary influences and their relationship with physical disorders (6th house). It has been observed (Virgo) that the position of Black Moon Lilith in a chart is more involved in such situations than would, on average (Virgo!) be expected.

My experience took in the Virgo-Pisces 12th-6th house axes. The joint conjunction with Ascendant made it very personal; I have felt to identify with the meaning of Black Moon Lilith in other situations too, especially when sec. progr. MEAN BML conjoined TRUE BML. Absolution may hopefully be found. one day.

Each individual will undergo their experiences through the positions of their Black Moon Lilith-Priapus axes.

Can you figure out yours???

 

[rahu]

hi Mew

when looking at true lilith, I don't pay much attention to the myth of Lilith. I do consider Lilith a feminine archetype . I base my interpretation on Lilith on the fact that the true Lilith is a geometric point. it is the far foci of the elliptical orbit of the moon around the earth . as a ellipse has two foci, the other Lilith is a point that is actually inside the body of the earth.

I don't use priapus as I am also not clear about it significance, though I have been mulling this over for a while and do intend to include priapus in the future. but from what I have read,it seems priapus is simply the true inner Lilith.

as Lilith is a function of the orbit of earth and moon, I interpret it as the seminal or undifferentiated source all emotional and rhythmic energy and cycles in a personality.as such,it is to me a connection between the unconscious and subconscious realms and does not operate on the conscious personality directly.

priapus is therefore one endpoint of this ethereal energy axis . so I can't really see it as a masculine symbol at all. I can see it as an aggressive or projective form of the feminine just as the triple goddess has the 3 face of mother, lover/maiden and the crone/warrioress.

using this analogy, I would call true Lilith the lover/maiden and priapus the warrior/crone with the earth itself being the mother goddess

I think the mythology of Lilith is better symbolized by the named asteroid ,Lilith, better than the geometric Lilith.
but a very good question as I have had unresolved uncertainties for a while myself.

rahu

 

[Mew]

You might conceive an idea of what the astrological point(s) Lilith mean if you exchange the word 'femininity' with 'inner feeling' or 'imaginative feeling' that are or are not outwardly expressed. In this manner the 'Lilith sense' is applicable to both male and female.



The astrological point Black Moon called Lilith has been given many 'functions', according to the thoughts and ideas of the astrologer(s) concerned. But as it represents a non-physical point and is not a planet of substance, it cannot 'do' anything on its own. It has need of an aspect with a physical body to, what I denote as, 'make its presence felt'.
I have been studying its position since the end of last century. My own thoughts are that its natal position is a natural (dormant?) part of and/or talent within one's nature seeking outer expression. It can also represent a part of one's nature that an individual doesn't care to admit to and is oppressed and denied existence. When this 'sense' is awakened (for lack of a better word),it can no longer remain contained and surfaces ….. and active inner feelings outwardly express its meaning through its opposing natal sign. 'Active' is a word associated with 'masculinity' and this 'outwardly acting' could, in turn, find an association/comparison with the Priapus point.

Simply as an example:
My MEAN Black Moon called Lilith is in the 12th house exact degree conjunct Chiron and partile Virgo Ascendant. It aspects all the personal planets, and Uranus.
My study of astrology could not provide me with a satisfactory explanation (Virgo?) regarding where 'the inner (not physical body)pain one lives with' finds its source. I became interested in the medical side of astrology and its holistic meaning. For years my attention was drawn towards Chiron. Circumstances occured through which I was introduced to Black Moon Lilith that i had never heard of before. I underwent what I have long referred to as 'an inner mystical experience' (Pisces), as a part of me that I had oppressed and denied existence' (self denial) for so long, surfaced and 'made its presence felt'.

There was a lot of self-forgiving, letting go, and working on Self involved. The inner experience changed how I felt regarding and studying the effect of planetary influences and their relationship with physical disorders (6th house). It has been observed (Virgo) that the position of Black Moon Lilith in a chart is more involved in such situations than would, on average (Virgo!) be expected.

My experience took in the Virgo-Pisces 12th-6th house axes. The joint conjunction with Ascendant made it very personal; I have felt to identify with the meaning of Black Moon Lilith in other situations too, especially when sec. progr. MEAN BML conjoined TRUE BML. Absolution may hopefully be found. one day.

Each individual will undergo their experiences through the positions of their Black Moon Lilith-Priapus axes.

Can you figure out yours???

Your response was lovely to read!

Fustratingly I have yet to figure out how the Lilith point works in my chart. Both the mean and true Lilith are in Libra in my seventh house. The mean is opposite my sun while the true is conjunct my descendent. I have priapus in my first house conjunct my sun in Aries. So it seems I’ve been more intune with priapus but don’t understand how it manifests. Considering Lilith is influencing matters of my 7th house I felt slightly confined about partnership (uranus aspecting) while simultaneously craving amd idealizing it(moon and neptune aspecting Lilith).

 

[Mew]

priapus is therefore one endpoint of this ethereal energy axis . so I can't really see it as a masculine symbol at all. I can see it as an aggressive or projective form of the feminine just as the triple goddess has the 3 face of mother, lover/maiden and the crone/warrioress.
rahu

This interpretation strikes me because the warrior vs lover describes the Aries/Libra Axis that I have with my Lilith and Priapus. Thank you rahu! I’d like to ask could you explain what you mean by Priapus being inner Lilith? I’ve been mulling over priapus non stop since I’ve heard of it as I have it aspecting both of my luminaries exactly. I must get to the bottom of these two points!

 

[david starling]

Should be informative when the Moon's orbital center-line axis is conjunct the Moon's Nodal axis!

 

[rahu]

This interpretation strikes me because the warrior vs lover describes the Aries/Libra Axis that I have with my Lilith and Priapus. Thank you rahu! I’d like to ask could you explain what you mean by Priapus being inner Lilith? I’ve been mulling over priapus non stop since I’ve heard of it as I have it aspecting both of my luminaries exactly. I must get to the bottom of these two points!

Thank you rahu! I’d like to ask could you explain what you mean by Priapus being inner Lilith?

i'll explain the astronomical description of liltih and priapus.
if the moon moved in a circular orbit around the sun ,then th emoon would revolve around a center point. but the moon moves in a elliptical orbit around the sun, or more correctly they together, define a elliptical orbit.
the mathematical equation for an ellipse is described by 2 foci not a single center points.so the orbit of the moon/sun is around two points ,not one.
these two points define the axis of Lilith. true Lilith is the far focus point(apogee) and priapus is the near focus point(perigee) of the elliptical orbit. but the near focus of the orbit is actually inside the earth. the far focus(Lilith) is in space outside of the earth.so that is why I called priapus the inner Lilith., as priapus is a point inside the earth.

so I still don't see priapus as a male energy. I do see it as a more vitalistic energy than lilith, which as I have posted is the seminal undifferentiated emotional energy of consciousness. priapus would be similar but have a "physical" vitalistic aspect that pertains to the desire body more so that Lilith.
these two symbols are functions of the sun and moon. but as I place greater emphasis on axis' of energies than i do planets per se, I see these two symbols as underlying the meaning of the sun and moon.

rahu

 

[david starling]

Thank you rahu! I’d like to ask could you explain what you mean by Priapus being inner Lilith?

i'll explain the astronomical description of liltih and priapus.
if the moon moved in a circular orbit around the sun ,then th emoon would revolve around a center point. but the moon moves in a elliptical orbit around the sun, or more correctly they together, define a elliptical orbit.
the mathematical equation for an ellipse is described by 2 foci not a single center points.so the orbit of the moon/sun is around two points ,not one.
these two points define the axis of Lilith. true Lilith is the far focus point(apogee) and priapus is the near focus point(perigee) of the elliptical orbit. but the near focus of the orbit is actually inside the earth. the far focus(Lilith) is in space outside of the earth.so that is why I called priapus the inner Lilith., as priapus is a point inside the earth.

so I still don't see priapus as a male energy. I do see it as a more vitalistic energy than lilith, which as I have posted is the seminal undifferentiated emotional energy of consciousness. priapus would be similar but have a "physical" vitalistic aspect that pertains to the desire body more so that Lilith.
these two symbols are functions of the sun and moon. but as I place greater emphasis on axis' of energies than i do planets per se, I see these two symbols as underlying the meaning of the sun and moon.

rahu

How about it rahu, the Moon's nodal axis conjunct its orbital center-line? Two possibilities: NN or SN at the perigee, also known as the "diamond point" of an elliptical orbit.

 

[david starling]

How about the Moon at its NN conjunct it's Perigee?

 

[Mew]

How about it rahu, the Moon's nodal axis conjunct its orbital center-line? Two possibilities: NN or SN at the perigee, also known as the "diamond point" of an elliptical orbit.

What is the diamond point?

 

[david starling]

What is the diamond point?

It's the point on an elliptical orbit where the orbiting body is closest to the body it's orbiting. For the Moon, it's the point of Perigee, where the Celestial-longitude of the center-line of its elliptical orbit crosses the Ecliptic. For the Earth, it's the point of Perihelion where the center-line of Earth's elliptical orbit crosses the Ecliptic. The Ecliptic is our astrological plane of measurement, and is both the Earth's orbital-plane objectively AND the Sun's as well, when viewed from the terrestrial perspective.

 

[Mew]

Update:

So I found this:


“...Astronomically, i am starting to get the Priapus=Super moon part. Moon represents femininity.

In a woman's chart,
Moon point would point to just femininity
BML point would be the femininity that's not accepted in the norms (traditional/culture roles) and you could be uncomfortable with accepting it.
Priapus point as the SuperMoon could mean the point that's twice the amount of femininity. So yes it would be "in your face" as too much femininity could mean very nurturing or very cranky.

In a man's chart,
Moon point would be acceptable amount of femininity.
BML point would be femininity that's normally not accepted in the norms but desire to have it.
Priapus point as Supermoon would be twice the amount of femininity that's too overpowering for him to handle. Which is why he would feel his male sexuality (or masculinity) being oppressed. ...”

This was on par to what I was speculating on priapus however the last points on each gender need to be worked out with better understanding of the masculine and feminine principal.

 

[Mew]

However of we were to use the maiden/lover/Crone archetype I’d say “Lilith” is definitely the crone, Moon is the lover and “Priapus” is the maiden.

 

[Frisiangal]

However of we were to use the maiden/lover/Crone archetype I’d say “Lilith” is definitely the crone, Moon is the lover and “Priapus” is the maiden.

Ummmm….. in mythology Priapus is a minor god whose fame is 'the large erect phallus.'

A maiden ???????

 

[Mew]

Ummmm….. in mythology Priapus is a minor god whose fame is 'the large erect phallus.'

A maiden ???????

Yup. As per my opening post I don’t think the priapus myth describes the function of this point at all lol. I’m just referring to it by “priapus” for lack of any new name.

 

[david starling]

Yup. As per my opening post I don’t think the priapus myth describes the function of this point at all lol. I’m just referring to it by “priapus” for lack of any new name.

I'm making serious use of the closest point of Earth's elliptical orbit to the Sun, which has been labeled "the Diamond Point". Not sure if this label can be applied to the Lunar orbit's closest approach to the Earth, though.
The "Black-Sun" concept is where the Diamond Point terminology is used. Look that up to find it.

 

[david starling]

I looked it up. Looks like we're stuck with Priapus for the Moon's orbit.
Diamond Point is the equivalent for the Earth's.

 

[david starling]

Well, I've changed my opinion on the names of both the Moon's Apogee and Perigee. For, the Apogee, Hecate, goddess of the Dark Moon. And for the Perigee, Artemis (Diana in the Roman version). Both are Ancient-Greek Moon goddesses of importance, whereas Priapus was a minor God of male lust, and Lilith is an out-of-context Biblical character.