The Ascendant

[david starling]

Using whole-sign houses, that cusp situation can alter things significantly. If Cap. is first house, Saturn takes precedence; if it's Sag., Jupiter rules. Use your ability to weigh the evidence, as only you can personally know it: Is yours a hazardous world requiring constant planning and caution; or a safe one, provided you keep your energy-level high and your wits about you? A blend of both, or more one than the other?

 

[gismeu]

Hello David,

thanks for responding and please remember, I am still an astro novice!

When you say "Using whole-sign houses, that cusp situation can alter things significantly."

This is true, but not with regards to the ASC, right?
That should always stay the same, so it does not help me in figuring out what my true ASC is!

You say:

"If Cap. is first house, Saturn takes precedence; if it's Sag., Jupiter rules. Use your ability to weigh the evidence, as only you can personally know it:
Is yours a hazardous world requiring constant planning and caution; or a safe one, provided you keep your energy-level high and your wits about you? A blend of both, or more one than the other?"

I'd say it is a blend of both, however Capricorn stands out more. When I play the game of detecting (my) astro signs with new acquaintances, they very often think I am a Capricorn, rather than a Libra or Sagittarius.
(And my Sun is in Libra)
I used to travel a lot and after having been born in Germany, I lived later as an adult in the UK, Australia, New Zealand and now in the USA. That would fit more with Sagi, but maybe having my moon in Sagi caused me to look for my significant other in far away places?
(My wife is USA citizen and I once had a girl friend in Australia)

With regards to you saying:
"Is yours a hazardous world requiring constant planning and caution; or a safe one, provided you keep your energy-level high and your wits about you?"

I'd say that the first 30 to 35 years of my life were more along the lines of
"a hazardous world requiring constant planning and caution" possibly going along with one (or one and a quarter) complete Saturn cycle, but once I realized a few things by reading e.g. Jane Roberts - The Nature of Personal Reality, things shifted and I stopped seeing myself as a victim and started to create my own reality according to what I wanted. I had a very strong confined and restricted childhood and had to get rid of those 'chains' first.

It used to be like one astrologer once said to me that with first Saturn and then Jupiter in my first house, I will achieve what I want, but I have to
work for it! My younger brother is a Leo and things just come to him easily and effortlessly.
However that now changed a lot due to Jane Roberts and e.g. Abraham Hicks' teachings!

Thanks for this exchange, much appreciated, gis

 

[JUPITERASC]

Hi,
this might be a bit off topic, but .......
My ascendent is at 29 degrees 41 min Sagi

and

I always wondered
what if the nurse made a little mistake time-wise?
Given that it is so close to Capricorn!

Whoever noted your official time of birth DEFINITELY may have "made a little mistake time-wise"

simply because
human beings are not infallible
and
there may have either been a clerical error

or
the time-piece consulted could have been fast

or slow

From my life experience of 54 years,
I can say that I certainly have both traits of a Sagi as well as a Capricorn ascendent,

but my question is,

are there ways to either rectify a chart or confirm one of the other?

There are a number of RECTIFICATION methods
many are discussed at RECTIFICATION TIPS http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51626

Having the Sun in Libra makes it easy for me to live with both,
i.e. a Sagi/Capri ascendent, but I am still an astrology beginner,
thus my asking here?

Thanks for any feedback, gis

I'm no expert, all I can tell you is my opinion
which is

that testing ascendant using every rectification method one can find
is an excellent way to familiarise oneself with basic astrological principles
and in the process discover one's most likely ascendant

 

[david starling]

I can't make out what house method was used, but it has your Moon in Sag. in the 11th. With whole-signs, if the Asc. is just slightly inside Sag., Sagittarius becomes the 1st house, instead of being split between 11th and 12th. So, you would have a 1st house Moon instead of an 11th. If your Asc. is slightly into Capricorn, you'll have the Moon in the 12th. Try looking into the difference between a Moon in the 1st compared to its being in the 11th. And as J.A. says, checking out your own chart will provide you with valuable experience. (I admit to being "sold" on whole-houses.)

 

[gismeu]

Thanks JUPITERASC,

will do some of what you suggested, as time allows, but it seems to me
that since in my case it is only a matter of several minutes, going back
and looking at when I got i.e. married (11/15/2012) is of not much help,
since I only remember roughly the hour, let alone the minute.

Therefore it seems to me that the best way would be to use the Moon
in relation to current events and see if it is always early or late.

But I might change that approach once I have read your thread about
rectifying charts!

Thanks again, gis

 

[JUPITERASC]

Thanks JUPITERASC,

will do some of what you suggested, as time allows, but it seems to me
that since in my case it is only a matter of several minutes, going back
and looking at when I got i.e. married (11/15/2012) is of not much help,
since I only remember roughly the hour, let alone the minute.

Therefore it seems to me that the best way would be to use the Moon
in relation to current events and see if it is always early or late.

But I might change that approach once I have read your thread about
rectifying charts!

Thanks again, gis

The time when the vows were said would be ideal

 

[gismeu]

Hello,

I got very interesting developments to pass on.

Yesterday the door bell rang and it was a person who manages the clubhouse in our community. Some days earlier I had handed in an application for renting the clubhouse for 2 weekdays in February.

To me it was a given that we would get the okay, since very few people do rent it.
However, much to my surprise and actually shock, our application got denied.
After a short conversation with the caretaker, he left and I had a look at the clock and then later at my chart. The result was
t-Moon (29 Leo 11) conjunct n-Uranus (29 Leo 16). It was off only by
5 arc minutes.
I was stunned because this surprise was clearly Uranus' work. Generally I am fairly sensitive and intuitive and feel things like that coming, but this
was a 'big whammy', unexpected!!!
I guess in terms of chart rectification, that means that I was born a few minutes earlier than the nurse wrote down, right?

Then much later I went to sleep and around 2:00am my dog woke me
up. He had to go out, so I went outside with him for a few minutes and then back to bed. Whilst still somewhat awake, I suddenly had the thought that I could hand in another application and change the things that caused
them to decline it. Somehow that felt good, plus what have I got to loose?

I looked at the clock and it was 2:10am. Then at one point this morning I checked my chart and was stunned again. What transpired was
t-Mercury (27 Cap 53) conjunct n-Jupiter (27 Cap 57).
So again, in terms of chart rectification, had I been born a bit earlier,
the hit would have been better.

Currently I am also looking into horary astrology and I wonder if I could
take that Mercury/Jupiter conjunction as a sign that my second application will be successful?

Lastly, I wonder if it makes sense that I hand in that second appliction
when I have some positive transits going on?

Thanks heaps, gis
Interesting times indeed

 

[Lin]

I think that everyone who has undergone a change of ASC by progression should note the difference in the way they see the world.....but even MORE the way the world sees them.
I know it's been pretty traumatic for me to go from the Sagi ASC I had for 20 something years to the Capricorn ASC I have now. I hate the way people "see" me. I don't see myself this way (Saturnian) - but compared to the previous Jupiterian projection it is very different and depressing!

NOt that there's not an upside....but if I had my way I would have kept the SAGI aSC. Unfortunately, as my quote says, "the universe does not care if it inconveniences you."

It also doesn't ask permission.
LIN

 

[Freya39]

Hi,

this might be a bit off topic, but .......
My ascendent is at 29 degrees 41 min Sagi and I always wondered what if the nurse made a little mistake time-wise? Given that it is so close to Capricorn!
From my life experience of 54 years, I can say that I certainly have both traits of a Sagi as well as a Capricorn ascendent, but my question is, are there ways to either rectify a chart or confirm one of the other?
Having the Sun in Libra makes it easy for me to live with both, i.e. a Sagi/Capri ascendent, but I am still an astrology beginner, thus my asking here?

Thanks for any feedback, gis

The birth chart could be rectified. I suggest to be use the Solar Arc, in order to see the most important events from your life. Are you adventurous enough to start anything you want, or you are calculated and want to have strategy plan before any new start? Do you like to expend your possibilities or you have passive attitude and want the best results after hard work involved?

If you like you can check your astrological forecast for March 2017, base on Sagittarius Ascendent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W5_nZXIEzg

 

[hebrewlaborer]

I just want to share my views about the Ascendant. I think many people and many interpretations confuse the Ascendant with what it actually is - undoubtedly yes, it is obviously a huge part of you and the ascendant sign is part of who you are.

The ascendant sign I feel is merely a mask we wear. I've seen people say that they feel more like their rising than their sun sign. Probably because the Ascendant is CONSTANTLY in use - when we're meeting people everyday, engaging with the world. It rarely comes off and only comes off for those we trust and those who intimately know us.

The Ascendant is important with one thing: it is the starting point of the entire chart, so it does govern a lot of influence. It's the front door though. The depths of who a person is are not dictated by the ascendant.

The RULING PLANET of the chart, i.e. the ruling planet of the Ascendant, in my opinion, personally, the sign it is in, the house it is in and the aspects it makes, set the "agenda" for how one will express their identity - their Ascendant. The ruling planet is important. It and the 1st house is the gateway to our souls/personalities.

 

[david starling]

I just want to share my views about the Ascendant. I think many people and many interpretations confuse the Ascendant with what it actually is - undoubtedly yes, it is obviously a huge part of you and the ascendant sign is part of who you are.

The ascendant sign I feel is merely a mask we wear. I've seen people say that they feel more like their rising than their sun sign. Probably because the Ascendant is CONSTANTLY in use - when we're meeting people everyday, engaging with the world. It rarely comes off and only comes off for those we trust and those who intimately know us.

The Ascendant is important with one thing: it is the starting point of the entire chart, so it does govern a lot of influence. It's the front door though. The depths of who a person is are not dictated by the ascendant.

The RULING PLANET of the chart, i.e. the ruling planet of the Ascendant, in my opinion, personally, the sign it is in, the house it is in and the aspects it makes, set the "agenda" for how one will express their identity - their Ascendant. The ruling planet is important. It and the 1st house is the gateway to our souls/personalities.

Definitely a matter of opinion! I don't see the Ascendant as a mask at all--it's essential to understanding one's personal world-view as an Individual. [IMO] The Midheaven is about how one presents oneself to others, and can be used to "mask" the Asc. It goes deeper than just personal world-view--it's about how one accesses one's Life-Force energy.

 

[sibylline]

I just want to share my views about the Ascendant. I think many people and many interpretations confuse the Ascendant with what it actually is - undoubtedly yes, it is obviously a huge part of you and the ascendant sign is part of who you are.

The ascendant sign I feel is merely a mask we wear. I've seen people say that they feel more like their rising than their sun sign. Probably because the Ascendant is CONSTANTLY in use - when we're meeting people everyday, engaging with the world. It rarely comes off and only comes off for those we trust and those who intimately know us.

The Ascendant is important with one thing: it is the starting point of the entire chart, so it does govern a lot of influence. It's the front door though. The depths of who a person is are not dictated by the ascendant.

The RULING PLANET of the chart, i.e. the ruling planet of the Ascendant, in my opinion, personally, the sign it is in, the house it is in and the aspects it makes, set the "agenda" for how one will express their identity - their Ascendant. The ruling planet is important. It and the 1st house is the gateway to our souls/personalities.

I completely agree with the last paragraph. Re: second paragraph, in effect the Ascendant is more like a face or a skin than a mask. A mask can be taken off and put back on at will, a face can not. I don't know if the Ascendant ever really comes "off", but the closer someone is the more they can see other, deeper sides of a person.

 

[dr. farr]

In my approach (when making a more thorough delineation of a natal chart) I study 7 (what I consider to be) KEY ELEMENTS:

-the ascending degree
-the degree of the MC
-the Ruling planet (I call this the significator of the horoscope)
-the Co-Ruling planet (co-significator of the horoscope)
-the most elevated planet in the chart (if different than the ruler and co-ruler)
-the Part of Fortune
-the Lot of the Life

A good delineation of the above elements gives an excellent view of the most significant qualities of the given chart.

 

[AppLeo]

In my approach (when making a more thorough delineation of a natal chart) I study 7 (what I consider to be) KEY ELEMENTS:

-the ascending degree
-the degree of the MC
-the Ruling planet (I call this the significator of the horoscope)
-the Co-Ruling planet (co-significator of the horoscope)
-the most elevated planet in the chart (if different than the ruler and co-ruler)
-the Part of Fortune
-the Lot of the Life

A good delineation of the above elements gives an excellent view of the most significant qualities of the given chart.

How can you learn about the importance of degrees? My cap rising is at 13 degrees... what does that even mean?

What is the lot of life?

What's the difference between a Capricorn Rising, Capricorn Sun, and Capricorn Moon?

 

[hebrewlaborer]

I completely agree with the last paragraph. Re: second paragraph, in effect the Ascendant is more like a face or a skin than a mask. A mask can be taken off and put back on at will, a face can not. I don't know if the Ascendant ever really comes "off", but the closer someone is the more they can see other, deeper sides of a person.

I think you're right here. It is a face, yes. We have many faces, all different depending on which part of our charts we're tapping into. I'm not sure it comes off either actually, now that I look at it, especially because it's ruling planet rules the chart and very much dominates many affairs.
I find this concept of having many faces interesting - I don't know if anyone here watches Game of Thrones, but I relate it to how Arya enters the House of Black and White and undertakes training to become one of the 'Faceless Men' and serve the 'Many-Faced God'. All gods are really just different faces but lead to the same thing ultimately - I feel it can be said for us as humans with our many faces - we have many faces, many that we wear as determined by what's happening in our charts, but they all lead to the same thing - the same person, which is us.

 

[greybeard]

I completely agree with the last paragraph. Re: second paragraph, in effect the Ascendant is more like a face or a skin than a mask. A mask can be taken off and put back on at will, a face can not. I don't know if the Ascendant ever really comes "off", but the closer someone is the more they can see other, deeper sides of a person.

I equate the Asc with Jung's "persona". Jung chose the term from the ancient Greek where the word meant the mask that actors wore to symbolize their role in the play. The ego, or persona, is a manufactured and somewhat changeable, or variable, entity built up from our earliest days to protect us (hide us) and enable or empower us. It is a fiction. Nevertheless, the Asc symbolizes our Role in Life.

 

[david starling]

I equate the Asc with Jung's "persona". Jung chose the term from the ancient Greek where the word meant the mask that actors wore to symbolize their role in the play. The ego, or persona, is a manufactured and somewhat changeable, or variable, entity built up from our earliest days to protect us (hide us) and enable or empower us. It is a fiction. Nevertheless, the Asc symbolizes our Role in Life.

This IS an area of disagreement, although we can certainly respect the opposing point of view. I've noticed that many astrologers go with what greybeard is saying. That surprised me, because I definitely see the Ascendant as a description of the genuine, very personal view of one's innate individualistic Self. The "mask" (imo) is where the M.C. comes into play: How we present ourselves to the world in general; and, that's where our social role is important, which involves a somewhat variable persona we create. The M.C. involves our careers and our projected image. So, as I use them, the Asc is the real person, the M.C. is the mask.

 

[CapAquaPis]

In my approach (when making a more thorough delineation of a natal chart) I study 7 (what I consider to be) KEY ELEMENTS:

-the ascending degree
-the degree of the MC
-the Ruling planet (I call this the significator of the horoscope)
-the Co-Ruling planet (co-significator of the horoscope)
-the most elevated planet in the chart (if different than the ruler and co-ruler)
-the Part of Fortune
-the Lot of the Life

A good delineation of the above elements gives an excellent view of the most significant qualities of the given chart.

I thought 5 things are the most important features of a natal chart:
1. The placement of the natal sun
2. The placement of the natal moon
3. The ascending or rising degree
4. The placement of the sun sign's ruler planet
and 5. The placement of the moon sign's ruler planet

Yes, the other elements are of importance to follow in natal charts.

 

[david starling]

I thought 5 things are the most important features of a natal chart:
1. The placement of the natal sun
2. The placement of the natal moon
3. The ascending or rising degree
4. The placement of the sun sign's ruler planet
and 5. The placement of the moon sign's ruler planet

Yes, the other elements are of importance to follow in natal charts.

Which is more the "real you", in your opinion? The Asc, the M.C., or the Sun?

 

[greybeard]

The houses deal with mundane affairs, passing circumstances, the ephemeral.

The signs have to do with thee essence, the inherent, the enduring.

The Asc and MC are house-related, thus passing.

It is the Sun which establishes and rules over the ecliptic. All other bodies orbit Sun. Sun is Center, the eternal Fire and Light.