The Ascendant

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Like the Sun, the Ascendant is always in the plane of the Ecliptic.

That's true. The Sun, Ascending Degree, Descending Degree, the MC Point, the IMC Point and the nodes never have any latitude. It's always 0°00' because they are on the Plane of the Ecliptic.

None of the stars are on the Plane of the Ecliptic. They are either above or below and they all bob up and down as they orbit and sometimes they bob up over the Plane then back down below it while they're orbiting (like Venus).
 
The person (me) with Moon/Saturn on Descendant comes across as non expressive and cold as ice.
 
Yes, the other houses derive from the Ascendant, that is, the house structure of the chart originates there and is determined by the rising degree.

In calculating a chart "by hand", from tables, the first thing calculated is the RAMC, which gives the MC. From that the Ascendant is derived, dependent on latititude of birth place.

These two points (they are axes -- meridian and horizon) then allow calculation of the derived houses, using the house system of our choice. But they are derivatives determined by longitude and latitude of birth.

If the Ascendant is the Point of All Beginnings [Daybreak, First Breath, Invisible (Unconscious) to Visible (Conscious)], then it follows that all the other houses begin here. Life begins here. The outcome of all things is dependent on the conditions at Inception. Therefore, as the ancients said, the Ascendant is the Point of Destiny.

The zodiac represents the life cycle, the processes of life as it develops from Emergence (Aries) to Death and Rebirth (Pisces). Pisces is where "Except a corn of wheat falleth into the ground and die, it abdeth alone; but if die, it bringeth forth much fruit" takes place. Pisces is death of the ego, that act of "self-sacrifice" that makes possible the rebirth of self at Aries. The wheel of the zodiac is the life cycle, in order as a process, and if the Ascendant is the beginning of our manifest physical life, then it follows that the rest of the houses proceed from it, in order, and the house are thus determined by it.

The answer is within you. The Virgo Ascendant produces the Leo 12th house. Each horoscope is different. It is the lord of the sign on a house cusp that is most powerfully determinant in affairs of the house. The sign sets the tone of the house; the lord disposes that house and its affairs and outcome. (v. "dispose", "disposition" in Mr. Webster's masterpiece.) This according to the intrinsic nature, conditioning, aspects, etc of the lord.

Interception (in quadrant house systems) does not impair the house structure. It describes an anomalous state of affairs. The anomaly is between signs (cosmic, essential) and houses (mundane, accidental). It is a shifting of essential qualities from their normal area of expression. Interception implies some form of abnormality (not necessarily the hunchback, or Siamese twins...but something deviating from normality in some way.) The word interception means "being cut off from its normal or intended course." We might also use words like "enclosed", "contained", "shut in", "included"....to describe an intercepted sign and its content. It has no normal means of natural outward expression and must resort to secondary avenues. It is highly subjective, turned inward because cut off from its normal flow. It is a symbol of disruption. The meaning of an intercepted sign in actual practice can quite often be seen in a striking and very literal fashion in the life as lived; it is usually seen as house-specific.

The Ascendant is the Point of Manifestation. It is the place where the "inner self" (the psychological-spiritual complex described by the solar system as an interrelated whole) meets the "outer world" (at our horizon). All four angles have this inner-outer function, but the Ascendant is the primary symbol of the "self" as made manifest.

Life is a mystery. I'm old and each day discover facets of self (through living and through my horoscopic charting) that are new to my consciousness. In age I have learned not to get excited; things will come to us in their due time. My vision of who I was, who I am, and who I will be continues to unfold and change. Life is an adventure. I wonder what tomorrow will bring? I'll find that out tomorrow. "Take therefore no thought for the morrow; for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."

The Sun is the center of the solar system (universe). All things revolve around it. Its symbol is a circle (Spirit) with a dot at center (point of manifestation). In the horoscope the Sun is the Spirit, our central Purpose. But notice that the Ascendant determines his house...the angle of incidence of his rays. This brings the Spirit-Purpose down to Earth. The planets in a chart describe the arrangement of energies; the Ascendant describes their particular manifestation. Houses describe surroundiing circumstances, the milieu through which the essential energies will be made manifest.

Two people born at exactly the same time contain exactly the same arrangement of internal energies. But if born at different places, the circumstances they encounter will be different, their lives different, the expression of those energies different. A hydrogen bomb dropped on Hiroshima is horribly destructive; dropped on the Sun, it foms part of a wonderfully creative process. The houses are foundational in astrology; that's why time of birth is the primary consideration in casting and delineating a chart.

I am a proponent of the "What you see is what you get" school of astrology. If the chart seems disharmonious, you get disharmony in the life. If there is a preponderance of Fire and a Fiery Ascendant, it would seem (other things being equal) that the expression of the Fiery inner nature would express more harmoniously than through an Earthy Ascendant.

I think students too often get lost in Astrology, and forget, or overlook, the fact that astrology is all about Real Life, Real People...and Common Sense. Simplify. Look at the chart not as some mysterious occult conundrum (which it is), but as a Map (which it is) of a person and their life. Join the Boy Scouts and learrn to read a map.

Suppose: Venus is lord of the horoscope (it represents the person of the native). Venus is found in the 4th House, between Uranus on one hand and Mars on the other, in close aspect. I would not hesitate to tell the Native "During your childhood you were surrounded by violence." Period. No ifs, ands or buts. What you see is what you get.

The Ascendant has an almost exact fit with Jung's persona. That's where the rubber meets the road. It's where spirit (which has no "reality"; it's intangible) becomes "real". But the persona is a construct, is constantly changing and adapting, is ephemeral. The Sun burns steady, is eternal. So that is the difference between Aries and Virgo. Virgo is the chariot. Aries is the driver.
Do you think that a good litmus test for Asc is how each student arrives in a new classroom on their first day of school?
 
Thanks JUPITERASC,

will do some of what you suggested, as time allows, but it seems to me
that since in my case it is only a matter of several minutes, going back
and looking at when I got i.e. married (11/15/2012) is of not much help,
since I only remember roughly the hour, let alone the minute.

Therefore it seems to me that the best way would be to use the Moon
in relation to current events and see if it is always early or late.

But I might change that approach once I have read your thread about
rectifying charts!

Thanks again, gis
Discussions like this make me shiver. Rectification at best is as good as playing horseshoes. Close enough is close enough. Or is it? How did the chaldeans and ptolymics tell an exact time of day when constructing the position of the stars in the sky at the moment a child was born? How many minutes are in a day? How many half minutes? All of our charts could be a lie in modern life just because there was a power or battery fritz on a clock. How do we know the clocks at home or delivery room were exact? I subvert to What planet ruled what sign that day and how did the other planets connect with it that day? The moon is the shadiest and most reliable source of info that you may or may not ever understand and that may or may not decept you.
 
greybeard hasn't posted for years :)

.
Ohkie Dohkie -

I just looked at my transits from the Rob Hand daily on AD and it appears I have a Moon trine Chiron transit at 6:59 am in 8 minutes CST, and although I don't have a gray beard, I'm tuned into this question. So it must be reborn by reception? The Moon is my spirit planet. Makes me like a gypsy (of which my bedouin and romanian dna confirms). The truth? The first breath and laugh and tear decides who you are, as does the surrounding ones who laugh or cry at your birth. Look to Jupiter Moon contacts to narrow it down?
 
Discussions like this make me shiver. Rectification at best is as good as playing horseshoes. Close enough is close enough. Or is it? How did the chaldeans and ptolymics tell an exact time of day when constructing the position of the stars in the sky at the moment a child was born? How many minutes are in a day? How many half minutes? All of our charts could be a lie in modern life just because there was a power or battery fritz on a clock. How do we know the clocks at home or delivery room were exact? I subvert to What planet ruled what sign that day and how did the other planets connect with it that day? The moon is the shadiest and most reliable source of info that you may or may not ever understand and that may or may not decept you.
Ohkie Dohkie - I just looked at my transits from the Rob Hand daily on AD and it appears I have a Moon trine Chiron transit at 6:59 am in 8 minutes CST, and although I don't have a gray beard, I'm tuned into this question. So it must be reborn by reception? The Moon is my spirit planet. Makes me like a gypsy (of which my bedouin and romanian dna confirms). The truth? The first breath and laugh and tear decides who you are, as does the surrounding ones who laugh or cry at your birth. Look to Jupiter Moon contacts to narrow it down?
An accurate birth time is foundation of HOROSCOPIC ASTROLOGY :)
Chart Rectification is a complex process
where the birth chart is “..re-engineered..” using significant life events as markers :)
to determine Ascendant - also known as Rising Sign.
Rectification is the process by which a chart is moved mathematically
in order to correspond to an accurate time of use

it can be thought of as reverse-engineering your birth chart down to the second.

A detailed introduction to birth chart rectification
which is used to find your birth time & Ascendant when it is otherwise unknown or uncertain. :)
Many techniques in astrology require an accurate birth time

and
this is why rectification can be crucial

or even necessary
for people who don't know what time they were born. :)

FOCUS IS ON THE SEVEN VISIBLE PLANETS

According to Richard Vetter :smile:

'.....Adjusting birth time by several hours
(not an unusual practice)
is an absurdity.
The thorough, imaginative rectifier
tends to construct adventurous theories about the process of certification.
Parents/relatives sometimes assist in producing such fantasies:
the longer the period of adjustment,
the more colorful are the myths
that get built around the circumstances of the birth....' Richard Vetter

Esteemed astrologer Robert Hand offers a natal chart rectification service
and states clearly:
'....It is critical to have the time of birth


If you do not know the exact time of your birth
or it was not recorded
we can rectify the time for an additional fee
however

rectification methods
are not as accurate and reliable

as some may believe.....'

Robert Hand
http://www.arhatmedia.com/consultations.html


.
 
My mom had a saturn mercury in capricorn, conjunct my jupiter and saturn and we both born with a moon conjunct in gemini to eatch other. Small details. She promised me that she had a watch on her wrist, my father had a watch on his wrist and she made sure the nurses and staff had a clock on the wall that matched, lol. Not so many lucky of that before the 1950's. She told me sister was born in the back of a car in 1949 on her way to the hospital and by the time they got to the hospital, they gave her a Leo rising like me, but straight up, she was cancer rising because all she is is petty and I'm sure of it. Cancer rising is the the petty moon show trying to define the lives of others.

I OFFER this - my sister tossed me into her motel swimming pool and said learn to swim at sunset on an early august sundown and I was 5 yrs old at the time, gasping for breath and learning to dog paddle at the same time and to this day, I own that biatch becuase everyt time she came at me after that, I challenged her to a swimming contest. It was a Moon Mars Saturn in a pool aspect to venus in pisces and a watery 12th. Today she is old and decrepit talking trash on me today, but I knew I was born that day to live. August 5th 1966. By ephem - Moon conjunct Venus in Pisces and Jupiter and Saturn in Cancer and I have Cancer Ruled 12th. It was the day she promised to take me to disneyland and I ended up swallowing water in a chlorine pool. Weird how rectification fails a lot of people when they leave out the details. Houses are the rectify. my opinion.
With many thanks to petosiris :)
for the following example rectification using THRASYLLUS method
anyone interested check it out :)

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=894943&postcount=343


OM8y0cf.png
 
IN FACT

'......Cicero wrote of a bronze device

made by Archimedes in the third century B.C.
And James Evans, a historian of astronomy at the University of Puget Sound in Tacoma, Washington
thinks that the eclipse cycle represented is Babylonian in origin

and begins in 205 B.C.
Maybe it was Hipparchus, an astronomer in Rhodes around that time
who worked out the math behind the device.
He is known for having blended the arithmetic-based predictions of Babylonians

with geometric theories favored by the Greeks....'


The Antithykera Mechanism
is
by far
the most advanced piece of ancient technology
ever discovered
&
is older than we thought

and

not quite as Greek as we thought either. :smile:
Researchers think they have identified a particular solar eclipse
predicted by the device's complex cycle of astronomical calculations
which can find the location of the Sun and Moon, the phase of the Moon
and possibly the positions of the planets for any given day.
Christian Carman, a science historian at the National University of Quilmes in Argentina
and James Evans, a physicist at the University of Puget Sound in Washington
reached their conclusions by comparing the mechanism's eclipse predictions
found on the Saros dial
with records from Babylon.
That gave them the cosmological clockwork's start date

12 May 205BC
more than a century earlier than originally thought

the device accurately predicted :)
lunar & solar eclipses

antikythera06_02.jpg

.
 
Last edited:
.

The evidence persuaded Drs Carman and Evans that

the ANTITHYKERA mechanism was designed
according to Babylonian arithmetic principles
rather than Greek trigonometry,

which had not been invented in 205BC.

But while the principle used was imported
it remains likely that the mechanism was built in Greece
the lettering on it is Greek
it has a dial that predicts when the Olympic Games will be held
and
bears an inscription mentioning an athletic event on Rhodes.

NEVERTHELESS
The markings on the face of the device

show
both Babylonian & Egyptian dates
translated into Greek. :smile:


.
 
IN FACT

'......Cicero wrote of a bronze device

made by Archimedes in the third century B.C.
And James Evans, a historian of astronomy at the University of Puget Sound in Tacoma, Washington
thinks that the eclipse cycle represented is Babylonian in origin

and begins in 205 B.C.
Maybe it was Hipparchus, an astronomer in Rhodes around that time
who worked out the math behind the device.
He is known for having blended the arithmetic-based predictions of Babylonians

with geometric theories favored by the Greeks....'


The Antithykera Mechanism
is
by far
the most advanced piece of ancient technology
ever discovered
&
is older than we thought

and

not quite as Greek as we thought either. :smile:
Researchers think they have identified a particular solar eclipse
predicted by the device's complex cycle of astronomical calculations
which can find the location of the Sun and Moon, the phase of the Moon
and possibly the positions of the planets for any given day.
Christian Carman, a science historian at the National University of Quilmes in Argentina
and James Evans, a physicist at the University of Puget Sound in Washington
reached their conclusions by comparing the mechanism's eclipse predictions
found on the Saros dial
with records from Babylon.
That gave them the cosmological clockwork's start date

12 May 205BC
more than a century earlier than originally thought

the device accurately predicted :)
lunar & solar eclipses

antikythera06_02.jpg

.
How was it for natal Ascendants?
 
.

for elucidation :)
email James Evans, professor of Physics
at University of Puget Sound :smile:
and
Christián Carman
History of Science Professor
at University of Quilmes, Argentina


Grff460.jpg
 
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