Trump or Hillary?

[AstroAries]

I was looking at astrological statistics of past presidents and based upon them it looks like Trump is most likely to become president. One of the statistics showed that not one U.S. president has had Scorpio Rising. Hillary has Scorpio Sun and Scorpio Rising based upon the chart that is given for her. So based on that statistic alone Trump seems more likely to win. There are other aspects of the chart so I'd like to hear from anyone who can elaborate on that.

 

[craft94]

I was looking at astrological statistics of past presidents and based upon them it looks like Trump is most likely to become president. One of the statistics showed that not one U.S. president has had Scorpio Rising. Hillary has Scorpio Sun and Scorpio Rising based upon the chart that is given for her. So based on that statistic alone Trump seems more likely to win. There are other aspects of the chart so I'd like to hear from anyone who can elaborate on that.

Hmm really? I thought it was the opposite. I thought there were more Scorpio (and Aquarius) presidents than any other sign? Of course that doesn't guarantee her to be a winner, but I thought statistically, presidents were more likely to be fixed than mutable

Anyway, I'm voting for Vermin Supreme

 

[AstroAries]

No, there are more Scorpio Suns as president but no presidents with Scorpio Rising.

 

[Loda41]

Hillary's chart has very good synchronicity with Election Day.

 

[craft94]

I would look at transits and progrsssions before I look at natal charts tbh...or hmmm, has anyone ever tried looking at a progressed version of the U.S. natal chart and comparing it with the presidential candidates?

 

[IleneK]

The 8am birth time for Hilary has long been in question. The Astro Data Bank at Astrodienst rates the quality of the time source as DD which is very unreliable, DD standing for "dirty".

There has been speculation that it is 8 pm instead of am with Gemini rising. But since we cannot know her true birth time for sure, we cannot not know her rising sign for sure either.

 

[AstroAries]

I don't know, Hillary doesn't seem like a Gemini rising to me. She seems more like a Scorpio rising but that may just be her Scorpio Sun. Like you said, we can't know for sure

 

[LittleGreenDots]

Scorpio Rising would certainly fit her personality, with her secrecy. I don't know where all the lying fits in, though.

Some of her challenging aspects incl.
Moon Sq. Uranus (mutable)
Mercury/Venus sq. Saturn (fixed)
Venus sq. Mars, Saturn, Pluto
Mars conj Pluto

That is, if she didn't lie about her date.

 

[AstroAries]

Yea I have known Scorpios in my lifetime and they often lie and deceive and hide. I have noticed they like to turn people against each other by spreading lies and rumors and then sit back and watch them fight, especially Scorpio women. That being said, I have also known good Scorpios...Hillary is not one of them.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Hillary Clintons
unknown unverified time of birth
is a puzzle for astrologers
Many astrologers have agreed
Hillary was born around 8 am.
That gives her Scorpio rising.

BUT

MARK SELTMAN disagrees and is of the opinion that Hillary has a fiery earthy Capricorn hand with square palms
straight short fingers, and separated head and life line
but has no earth in her horoscope
except for her north node in Taurus.

So

Mark Seltman believea that
HRC has got either Capricorn rising

or

Saturn in Leo on her ascendant

'......If Capricorn is rising, her birth time is between 11:05 am and 12:59 pm.

If Saturn is rising, her birth time would be around 12:17 am. That fits her personality best....' http://blog.markseltman.com/2016/10/...s-perspective/

 

[Melaike]

Scorpio Rising would certainly fit her personality, with her secrecy. I don't know where all the lying fits in, though.

Consider her Pisces Moon,We Pisceans are very good at lying also some of us are prone to blame others for our (or common) faults.

 

[Witchyone]

Consider her Pisces Moon,We Pisceans are very good at lying also some of us are prone to blame others for our (or common) faults.

I agree with this. I think Moon in Pisces in the 10th house would account for her being willing to justify means to get to certain ends. Her long-term intentions are probably altruistic or at the very least symbiotic, but she may be willing to bend all the rules to get there. I think a negative expression of Pisces can account for this. Also, some of what we interpret as her lying could be her hiding things for the sake of hiding. Hiding things gives the appearance of lying, and as a Scorpio, she may feel compelled to hide information to maintain power. Anyone with as much experience in government as she knew the private server thing was against all expectations, if not flat out illegal, as was destroying emails.

 

[Kuntuzangmo]

Since there is no agreement about Hillary's birth time, has anyone looked at Bill and/or Chelsea's charts for election day?
Maybe that will tell us who wins.

 

[Kannon]

I came across this article over a year ago. The enlarged portion is taken from the first column, second section, and you can view it for yourself here:
https://kannonmcafee.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/hrc-sun-times-jan93-article-p1.jpg

Lynn Sweet interviewed Hillary Clinton for the article and knows she saw a document of some kind related to the birth (probably a family record). That is why the 8 PM time, which seems to have originated from that time. This is on record now at Astrodatabank in the Source Notes section.

There never was any news article stating she was born "in time for breakfast" as was previously claimed. I and others went through every contemporary Chicago newspaper that could have given the announcement and that never appeared anywhere. The morning birth is mere legend.

"Early" in my view means between midnight/0:00 and around 8:00 AM. Add 12 hours and you get noon to 8 PM.

I believe the correct chart 14° Aries was arrived at by Astro-Intuitive on this AW forum thread:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5443

There has been another chart recently added to the ADB page for her, which is based on a still invisible birth document claimed to have a birth time of 2:18 AM. Many months ago I went through every chart possibility for her between 0:00 and 3 AM. Absolutely nothing. Leo rising for her is believable in theory, but there is no substantiation in the progressions whatsoever for either a Leo or Virgo rising chart. The 2 AM time was when her mother arrived at the hospital in my view.

 

[Kannon]

But to answer the original question regarding the outcome of the election, the best I can come to is that Trump's chart shows a transit of Saturn conjunct Moon during the period between the election and inauguration, which generally indicates withdrawal, defeat, not victory and expanded global notoriety.

 

[sabumnim]

But to answer the original question regarding the outcome of the election, the best I can come to is that Trump's chart shows a transit of Saturn conjunct Moon during the period between the election and inauguration, which generally indicates withdrawal, defeat, not victory and expanded global notoriety.

So, based on one aspect, you predict ? Is that the best you've got, Kannon LOL ? T. Saturn conjunct n. Moon is not good, but Trump also has many powerful and compelling transits and directions going on, Nov. 8th, including SA Pluto = Jupiter and transiting Uranus trine natal Moon.

Conversely, Clinton's natal chart is a shot in the dark, but IF you buy into the 8:02 am birth time, there are two transits indicating an unpleasant surprise: T. Uranus inconjunct her natal Mercury and SP Moon in Libra = Neptune, NOT aspects that suggest a winning hand. I smell email scandals and just secretive nonsense from HRC !

 

[david starling]

So, based on one aspect, you predict ? Is that the best you've got, Kannon LOL ? T. Saturn conjunct n. Moon is not good, but Trump also has many powerful and compelling transits and directions going on, Nov. 8th, including SA Pluto = Jupiter and transiting Uranus trine natal Moon.

Conversely, Clinton's natal chart is a shot in the dark, but IF you buy into the 8:02 am birth time, there are two transits indicating an unpleasant surprise: T. Uranus inconjunct her natal Mercury and SP Moon in Libra = Neptune, NOT aspects that suggest a winning hand. I smell email scandals and just secretive nonsense from HRC !

Sabumnim, Aries Asc is as likely, even more likely, in my (revised) opinion [MRO]. Between Scorpio and Leo, Scorpio; between Aries and Scorpio, Aries. What have you got for the Aries Asc time, regarding plusses and minuses for her chances?

 

[sabumnim]

Sabumnim, Aries Asc is as likely, even more likely, in my (revised) opinion [MRO]. Between Scorpio and Leo, Scorpio; between Aries and Scorpio, Aries. What have you got for the Aries Asc time, regarding plusses and minuses for her chances?

I respect your opinion, but,

We must remember that, in western mundane astrology, we cannot turn a sow's ear into a silk purse....

Similarly, according to Rumpelstiltskin's classic bed time story, we cannot turn straw into gold....either ? LOL

Did you know that the first "trolls" appeared under Rumpelstiltskins bridge and not from this website...

Seriously, an Aries ascendant is (in my opinion) a longshot birth time at best for HRC, and, since Mrs. Rodham (Hillary's mother) claims the birth took place near breakfast and Aries is typically rising when the Sun is in Scorpion, late in the afternoon (and not when "mother" recalls !).

Mars is the natural ruler of Scorpion, and her Mars is in Leo = Saturn and Pluto, in the 9th house of foreigners, law, and the courts.

Her career was initially as a lawyer, and she became a prosecutor, as well. When in government, she was a Secretary of State, again, a 9th house occupation.

Mars in the 9th is about defending your point of view, fanatically, and beating others with your viewpoint.

The 8:02 am birth time fits, in my view.

 

[JUPITERASC]

I respect your opinion, but,

We must remember that, in western mundane astrology, we cannot turn a sow's ear into a silk purse....

Similarly, according to Rumpelstiltskin's classic bed time story, we cannot turn straw into gold....either ? LOL

Did you know that the first "trolls" appeared under Rumpelstiltskins bridge and not from this website...

Seriously, an Aries ascendant is (in my opinion) a longshot birth time at best for HRC, and, since Mrs. Rodham (Hillary's mother) claims the birth took place near breakfast and Aries is typically rising when the Sun is in Scorpion, late in the afternoon (and not when "mother" recalls !).

Mars is the natural ruler of Scorpion, and her Mars is in Leo = Saturn and Pluto, in the 9th house of foreigners, law, and the courts.

Her career was initially as a lawyer, and she became a prosecutor, as well. When in government, she was a Secretary of State, again, a 9th house occupation.

Mars in the 9th is about defending your point of view, fanatically, and beating others with your viewpoint.

The 8:02 am birth time fits, in my view.

NEVERTHELESS

Life long friends publicly stated their recollections
more than two decades ago

I came across this article over a year ago.
The enlarged portion is taken from the first column, second section, and you can view it for yourself here:
https://kannonmcafee.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/hrc-sun-times-jan93-article-p1.jpg

Lynn Sweet interviewed Hillary Clinton for the article and knows she saw a document of some kind related to the birth (probably a family record).
That is why the 8 PM time, which seems to have originated from that time.
This is on record now at Astrodatabank in the Source Notes section.

There never was any news article stating she was born "in time for breakfast" as was previously claimed.
I and others went through every contemporary Chicago newspaper that could have given the announcement
and that never appeared anywhere.
The morning birth is mere legend.

"Early" in my view means between midnight/0:00 and around 8:00 AM. Add 12 hours and you get noon to 8 PM.

I believe the correct chart 14° Aries was arrived at by Astro-Intuitive on this AW forum thread:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5443

There has been another chart recently added to the ADB page for her,
which is based on a still invisible birth document claimed to have a birth time of 2:18 AM.
Many months ago I went through every chart possibility for her between 0:00 and 3 AM.
Absolutely nothing.
Leo rising for her is believable in theory,
but there is no substantiation in the progressions whatsoever for either a Leo or Virgo rising chart.

The 2 AM time was when her mother arrived at the hospital in my view.

 

[muchacho]

So, based on one aspect, you predict ? Is that the best you've got, Kannon LOL ? T. Saturn conjunct n. Moon is not good, but Trump also has many powerful and compelling transits and directions going on, Nov. 8th, including SA Pluto = Jupiter and transiting Uranus trine natal Moon.

Conversely, Clinton's natal chart is a shot in the dark, but IF you buy into the 8:02 am birth time, there are two transits indicating an unpleasant surprise: T. Uranus inconjunct her natal Mercury and SP Moon in Libra = Neptune, NOT aspects that suggest a winning hand. I smell email scandals and just secretive nonsense from HRC !

Right. And let's also keep in mind that a transit can only deliver what is promised in the birth chart.