Venus debilitated in Virgo???

[Eric traveller]

The western chart has my Venus in Libra. Vedic says it's debilitated in Virgo.

I have to say. I feel like my Venus is definitely debilitated. I have all of these problems with women, and all the indications this planet signifies; enjoyment, ease, luxury, pleasure, and pleasentness... that it's just a very stark difference.
How can there be such a big difference between two charts?

 

[sentR89day]

If Venus-Saturn and and Saturn is in the 7th house, it can also effect your love life! It depends on the rest of your chart, too!

There are myriads of placements that can lead to negative manifestations of love, like Venus conjunct Neptune can cause self-delusion, and others deluding you, about love, and relationships! But, Venus-Neptune can also lead to total bliss and surrender in love!

 

[Eric traveller]

If Venus-Saturn and and Saturn is in the 7th house, it can also effect your love life! It depends on the rest of your chart, too!

There are myriads of placements that can lead to negative manifestations of love, like Venus conjunct Neptune can cause self-delusion, and others deluding you, about love, and relationships! But, Venus-Neptune can also lead to total bliss and surrender in love!

A Vedic astrologer once told me, your Venus is fine it's in the second house. Therefore it's strong so don't worry about it.

Yeah strongly debilitated!!! I thought. It's true, it's very very strong, and very debilitated. I have the third and the 10th houses debilitated. I can barely even come on a forum and type without sounding completely stupid and I don't mean to at all, that's the thing. Modern astrology is ruining astrology thought with all these notions, that's the thing, is this guy was just going by house placement and disregarding the signs. I get his point of view but you just can't do that!
It's like picking and choosing astrology.
.

People don't understand what it's like to have every single job suck, not be able to work (10th house) or hold onto a job, or have a social media presence (3d). Everything you... say comes out wrong, and then you get blamed for it. It's the worst in this day and age. I'm pretty sure it's a bad curse.

 

[tikana]

The western chart has my Venus in Libra. Vedic says it's debilitated in Virgo.

I have to say. I feel like my Venus is definitely debilitated. I have all of these problems with women, and all the indications this planet signifies; enjoyment, ease, luxury, pleasure, and pleasentness... that it's just a very stark difference.
How can there be such a big difference between two charts?

first of all vedic is 15 degrees earlier than venus in virgo in western

i dont read vedic. Venus may not be as debilitated as you think because if it is elevated or placed in angular houses you might get a boost or if she aspects trine or sextile applying to jupiter. in table of dignity you can find if your venus has triplicity and face or term dignities which makes a major dignity then that evens out the fall. effect

all dends on factors how mezzed up is your venus.

 

[chay]

A Vedic astrologer once told me, your Venus is fine it's in the second house. Therefore it's strong so don't worry about it.

Yeah strongly debilitated!!! I thought. It's true, it's very very strong, and very debilitated. I have the third and the 10th houses debilitated. I can barely even come on a forum and type without sounding completely stupid and I don't mean to at all, that's the thing. Modern astrology is ruining astrology thought with all these notions, that's the thing, is this guy was just going by house placement and disregarding the signs. I get his point of view but you just can't do that!
It's like picking and choosing astrology.

So many of the things I say on social media backfire. Things that people take for granted like having a social media presence or on facebook, I can't do that... And I struggle so hard, just to say what I want to say. And I'm aware that I have this problem, but it- just completely comes out wrong. Everything I touch on soc. media turns bad. Literally. You've heard of Midas. Well, I'm minus.

People don't understand what it's like to have every single job suck, not be able to work (10th house) or hold onto a job, or have a social media presence (3d). Everything you... say comes out wrong, and then you get blamed for it. It's the worst in this day and age. I'm pretty sure it's a bad curse.

You said something to me through this forum, and initially I was annoyed. But after I thought about it for a while what you said was true, so i respect it. I have Venus in Virgo. I think the aspects tell us a lot about our charts. House astrology isn't the only school of thought. If I were you I'd look at my chart using different schools of astrology until you find the one that works for you. Your chart may even tell you the answer.

 

[BOOGY99]

You said something to me through this forum, and initially I was annoyed. But after I thought about it for a while what you said was true, so i respect it. I have Venus in Virgo. I think the aspects tell us a lot about our charts. House astrology isn't the only school of thought. If I were you I'd look at my chart using different schools of astrology until you find the one that works for you. Your chart may even tell you the answer.

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I would look at the bigger picture I have Venus in Libra and 2nd house, never found love, but I think its my Saturn in my 5th house. If you look at the whole chart in general you may get answers x

 

[Eric traveller]

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I would look at the bigger picture I have Venus in Libra and 2nd house, never found love, but I think its my Saturn in my 5th house. If you look at the whole chart in general you may get answers x

Your Venus is in Virgo in the Sidereal measurement, that's why. The same story here. I'm telling you, it's the most accurate measurement. I'm not sure what the guy above me was saying maybe he's mixed up about something- because my Venus is in Libra in the western chart. Not 15 it's more like 23° behind.
Claudius Ptolemy once said that the (geometric of 30°) measurements were the only measure which to measure the signs and of astrology.

We must follow the constellations, and NOT not signs. The Greeks were obsessed with ideas of geometry, but the equedistant spaces on the ecliptic don't really mean anything, other than what is useful for predicting weather or constructing an accurate 360° wheel for representing the Twelve Divine Signs. The stars are actual fragments of light, which are powered by the luminaries, and reflect the flavor of each of the planet(s) in different proportion; they were seen with a greater significance for the ancients than anything else REALLY.

We know what what effects we see by causes, a star rises on the horizon...and we see its effects, a star is conjunct an eclipse or with a constellation...and, we see its effects, A follows B. Therefore we can glean truth from it; we can see there are more accurate details from vedic Babylonian, Egyptian system of constellational sidereal astrology...The Greeks could get away with it because the two systems lined up then. I agree the aspects are important and they sit, regardless of what system you use. I often am too lazy to not use the tropical measurements during transits. I mean both systems work, but one just yields tremendous amounts of penetrating, information. They all will point you more or less to the same results.
Sorry to annoy you man I'm truly working on that.
I'm not the best with forums and other stuff...

 

[Osamenor]

first of all vedic is 15 degrees earlier than venus in virgo in western

Actually, everything in a Vedic chart is 23-24 degrees earlier than in the Western version. Not 15. That puts most placements a sign earlier in Vedic than in Western. The only exceptions are placements in the last 6-7 degrees of their sign (Western). Those get moved to the early degrees of the same sign.

The western chart has my Venus in Libra. Vedic says it's debilitated in Virgo.

I have to say. I feel like my Venus is definitely debilitated. I have all of these problems with women, and all the indications this planet signifies; enjoyment, ease, luxury, pleasure, and pleasentness... that it's just a very stark difference.
How can there be such a big difference between two charts?

Vedic and Western are different languages. They're languages that share a vocabulary, but the same word in one language doesn't have the exact same meaning in the other.

In both languages, though, a big rookie mistake is putting too much meaning into one "word." Your problems with women and problems with enjoyment don't all boil down to your Venus placement, debilitated or otherwise. It's a matter of the whole chart. Either one, but personally, I would only know how to interpret the Western one. And then, it's not just the chart, it's also your response to it.

We usually cause our own problems, or at least exacerbate them. That isn't astrology's fault. Astrology shows us what kinds of problems we're most likely to have to deal with, how we'd tend to exacerbate them, and, just as crucially, how we might be able to solve them. But it's not the journey, just the map.

 

[Osamenor]

And to add: I've looked at your Western chart on another thread where you posted it, and I think that the root cause of your issues with women and with pleasure (presumably with not having pleasure?) comes down to a very deep seated self denial. I don't see your Venus being a key player in that; it looks to me like your Moon is running that show. That's a whole separate topic from Venus being debilitated in Virgo, though.

Incidentally, I have Venus in Virgo (Western), but my experience with that is quite different.

 

[Eric traveller]

And to add: I've looked at your Western chart on another thread where you posted it, and I think that the root cause of your issues with women and with pleasure (presumably with not having pleasure?) comes down to a very deep seated self denial. I don't see your Venus being a key player in that; it looks to me like your Moon is running that show. That's a whole separate topic from Venus being debilitated in Virgo, though.

Incidentally, I have Venus in Virgo (Western), but my experience with that is quite different.

Self-denial huh...? That's interesting, and probably a topic for another more private thread...Thanks for posting it here though. I REALLY appreciate that. I don't really think it's appropriate to put someone's details like that or make such a comment like that. do you?? Out of nowhere, and without warning. It almost seems, spiteful...hmmm.. naw. It couldn't be that could it.
Then why I wonder...
Of course charts work in synergy, I'm not, nor was I denying that. But I don't agree with you. It supposes you have more control over reality than you really do.
Look at the state of the West and all of the stupid morons that inhabit it.

I am familiar with both systems. I've studied them both, and fate is a "Real Thing." Venus in the second, debilitated also would indicate self- esteem and confidence.
I'm NOT denying what you said about the Moon, it's probably true partly you can blame my Mother for that, and meanwhile... ask her why she was that way.

 

[Osamenor]

Self-denial huh?? That's interesting, and that's a topic for another, and perhaps more private thread... I don't think it's appropriate to out someone's details of a birth chart on another thread, do you??

That's why I didn't mention the specific details. Notice I said nothing about the signs, houses, or aspects I was looking at.

If you regard it as fate instead, then you do. We're coming from different astrological perspectives here.

Even from a determinist perspective, though, one planet's debility cannot be the sole reason for the problems you describe. A contributing factor, perhaps, but there are always multiple factors. It's never just one thing and one thing alone.

 

[Eric traveller]

Interestingly if you go back far enough, you even have the "Norns", or the Fates, the weavers of destiny.

So... even Westerners at one time held fate as a valid concept. Yes, even practitioners of astrology. "Western astrology". So I wonder where this idea of "hey man, my fates so free" hey Equality man... Actually came from.
That would be an interesting case study in and of itself.
I personally believe its Saturn.
An Enlightenment idea that came out of Turkey.
I wrote another thread about that. But that's another story.

That's why I didn't mention the specific details. Notice I said nothing about the signs, houses, or aspects I was looking at.

If you regard it as fate instead, then you do. We're coming from different astrological perspectives here.

Even from a determinist perspective, though, one planet's debility cannot be the sole reason for the problems you describe. A contributing factor, perhaps, but there are always multiple factors. It's never just one thing and one thing alone.

 

[Osamenor]

Interestingly if you go back far enough, you even have the "Norns", or the Fates, the weavers of destiny.

So... even Westerners at one time, long ago, believed in fate, ah... yes, even practitioners of astrology. "Western astrology". So I wonder where this idea of "hey man, my fates so free" hey Equality man... Actually came from.
That would be an interesting case study in and of itself.
I personally believe it came from Saturn. And all the f****ry that planet entails.
It's an Enlightenment idea that had its roots, and originated in Turkey, of all God **** places.
I wrote another thread about that. But, that's another story.

Indeed, it is.

In the West, astrology fell out of favor for quite some time. The theosophists revived it in the late nineteenth/early twentieth century, but by then, Western culture had undergone a shift from deterministic and very community oriented to an individualist "you make your own luck" worldview. Went hand in hand with the rise of capitalism. So the new version of Western astrology, now known as modern astrology, was naturally infused with that worldview.

Here's an idea that kind of blends the two: your out of sect benefic, your in sect malefic, and any planet you have in fall or detriment, represent problems you have to solve. Either way, Venus is your out of sect benefic, since you have a day chart (Jupiter and Saturn are in sect for day charts, Venus and Mars for night charts).

It's a more optimistic perspective than saying, "well, you're just ******* then," because problems you have to solve are problems you can solve. Maybe you spend your whole life working on them, maybe they become your life's work, but it's not just "welp, can't do anything about that."

 

[Eric traveller]

Indeed, it is.

In the West, astrology fell out of favor for quite some time. The theosophists revived it in the late nineteenth/early twentieth century, but by then, Western culture had undergone a shift from deterministic and very community oriented to an individualist "you make your own luck" worldview. Went hand in hand with the rise of capitalism.

Here's an idea that kind of blends the two: your out of sect benefic, your in sect malefic, and any planet you have in fall or detriment, represent problems you have to solve. Either way, Venus is your out of sect benefic, since you have a day chart (Jupiter and Saturn are in sect for day charts, Venus and Mars for night charts).

It's a more optimistic perspective than saying, "well, you're just ******* then," because problems you have to solve are problems you can solve. Maybe you spend your whole life working on them, maybe they become your life's work, but it's not just "welp, can't do anything about that."

Well, I guess I have a lot of problems don't I?

God is good. Or as my estranged former brother, once told me. "Well, the air's just harder to breathe for some people."

 

[Eric traveller]

Indeed, it is.

In the West, astrology fell out of favor for quite some time. The theosophists revived it in the late nineteenth/early twentieth century, but by then, Western culture had undergone a shift from deterministic and very community oriented to an individualist "you make your own luck" worldview. Went hand in hand with the rise of capitalism. So the new version of Western astrology, now known as modern astrology, was naturally infused with that worldview.

Here's an idea that kind of blends the two: your out of sect benefic, your in sect malefic, and any planet you have in fall or detriment, represent problems you have to solve. Either way, Venus is your out of sect benefic, since you have a day chart (Jupiter and Saturn are in sect for day charts, Venus and Mars for night charts).

It's a more optimistic perspective than saying, "well, you're just ******* then," because problems you have to solve are problems you can solve. Maybe you spend your whole life working on them, maybe they become your life's work, but it's not just "welp, can't do anything about that."

I see that as a selfish, evil worldview. It's full of lies and self delusion.
Look at what's become of us, look at the state of the West; when everyone follows their own passions. I don't see it as a good thing- at all.

 

[Osamenor]

Well, I guess I have a lot of problems don't I?

Based on your chart, you have about the average amount of problems. If you're having a lot of problems right now, I suspect it boils down to the real sticking points in your chart. And, maybe, what problems you have are the extra overwhelming kind.

Most people don't have rosy lives. Most birth charts don't suggest rosy lives, either. But you'd hardly know it because most people put on "everything's okay" faces most of the time.

 

[Eric traveller]

Based on your chart, you have about the average amount of problems. If you're having a lot of problems right now, I suspect it boils down to the real sticking points in your chart. And, maybe, what problems you have are the extra overwhelming kind.

Most people don't have rosy lives. Most birth charts don't suggest rosy lives, either. But you'd hardly know it because most people put on "everything's okay" faces most of the time.

I know I was just being tongue-in-cheek. ;'.

 

[waybread]

Technically, in traditional western astrology, Venus is not debilitated in Virgo but in its fall. Venus is debilitated in Scorpio (opposite Taurus) and Aries (opposite Libra.) Venus is exalted in Pisces, hence its fall in the opposite sign of Virgo.

But I don't think Venus in Virgo in and of itself will explain difficulties with women and other Venusian matters. I think you also have to look at aspects and house placements.

 

[Osamenor]

Technically, in traditional western astrology, Venus is not debilitated in Virgo but in its fall. Venus is debilitated in Scorpio (opposite Taurus) and Aries (opposite Libra.) Venus is exalted in Pisces, hence its fall in the opposite sign of Virgo.

Venus is in detriment in Virgo, in fall in Aries and Scorpio, and debilitated in any of those signs.

A planet's fall signs are the signs opposite its domicile signs. Its detriment is the sign opposite its exaltation. Being in fall or detriment is a debility.

 

[waybread]

Venus is in detriment in Virgo, in fall in Aries and Scorpio, and debilitated in any of those signs.

A planet's fall signs are the signs opposite its domicile signs. Its detriment is the sign opposite its exaltation. Being in fall or detriment is a debility.

I go by this traditional chart of essential dignities and debilities:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html

Venus is in detriment in Aries and Scorpio, and in its fall in Virgo.

Collectively we can call these detriments, but there is a distinction between a planet in the sign opposite its domicile, vs. a planet in the sign opposite its exaltation.

Virgo is kind of interesting with regard to Mercury, in that it is both domiciled and exalted there..