What is the impact of using different house systems?

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anjelik

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I am asking this from a curious perspective because I have always looked at my own natal chart in Placidus, because that is the default for astro.com and also the first way I ever saw my own chart when I was 15 and my mother gave me a computer print out from the 80s of an astrological analysis of myself.

But, if I used let's say, whole signs my chart slightly shifts and wouldn't that in turn impact my supposed personality? I'm just curious to hear from experienced astrologers because from a learning perspective, using whole signs seems easiest because then each planet represents a house and it would seem easier to read. But perhaps I really am a 3rd house Sun, because I am highly communicative. Perhaps that is not down to my Gemini Moon, but to where my Sun is really placed. That is just an example of the shift as my Sun is at the last few degrees of the 1st house using Placidus and does a shift to the 3rd house.
 
I am asking this from a curious perspective because I have always looked at my own natal chart in Placidus, because that is the default for astro.com and also the first way I ever saw my own chart when I was 15 and my mother gave me a computer print out from the 80s of an astrological analysis of myself.

But, if I used let's say, whole signs my chart slightly shifts and wouldn't that in turn impact my supposed personality? I'm just curious to hear from experienced astrologers because from a learning perspective, using whole signs seems easiest because then each planet represents a house and it would seem easier to read. But perhaps I really am a 3rd house Sun, because I am highly communicative. Perhaps that is not down to my Gemini Moon, but to where my Sun is really placed. That is just an example of the shift as my Sun is at the last few degrees of the 1st house using Placidus and does a shift to the 3rd house.

Hi anjelik,

No matter what house system you use, the simple fact is the signs make aspects between themselves. The 7th sign is always opposed to the Ascending sign; the 4th sign squares the Ascending sign and the 7th sign; and the 3rd sign is sextile to the Ascending sign.

Sun in H3 does indicate communication skills. That's because the Sun tends to reflect the natural sign of the house it occupies. Gemini is the natural sign of H3. Overall, your communication skills will rely on the ruler of H3 and Mercury, but the Sun in H3 gives you a boost.

You might be better off reading your chart in Whole Sign. Equal Sign is also a better option than house systems.
 
Hi anjelik,

No matter what house system you use, the simple fact is the signs make aspects between themselves. The 7th sign is always opposed to the Ascending sign; the 4th sign squares the Ascending sign and the 7th sign; and the 3rd sign is sextile to the Ascending sign.

Sun in H3 does indicate communication skills. That's because the Sun tends to reflect the natural sign of the house it occupies. Gemini is the natural sign of H3. Overall, your communication skills will rely on the ruler of H3 and Mercury, but the Sun in H3 gives you a boost.

You might be better off reading your chart in Whole Sign. Equal Sign is also a better option than house systems.

I prefer to stick to the angles primarily, so I'm not a whole or equal house fan. When there are breaks or shifts in momentum in mode of life it is usually because the angles are split in the triplicities. (my mom taught me that).

If I had whole or equal house - I'd have Venus ruled Taurus on MC and exalted Venus in 8th - you can bet I'd be a Rockefeller or something. I've been poor or barely middle class my whole life. No inheritance of money or possessions even though I am part of families that were fairly wealthy.

In Placidus chart - I have Aries on MC and it's pretty obvious to the world around me.

"the world around me" - i just laughed at that, like I am the sun or something. but yeah, in my own life, i am the sun.
 
I'm no professional, but there isn't really one right or wrong interpretation. Have multiple charts with multiple interpretations for each individual chart and then put them together to make the ultimate interpretation. Even then, who cares about the ultimate interpretation. You're using the chart to understand yourself--not understanding yourself so that you can get the perfect chart :lol:

When it comes to houses, which are made up of invisible sections in the sky and ground of the earth, you gotta be fluid and loose. Just like the zodiac signs. Everything blends together. Some Aquarians I know seem like Capricorns and a lot of Capricorns seem like Aquarians to me. Vedic astrology interprets the signs 23 degrees backward, when I honestly think they should be interpreted 23 degrees forward if anything. A lot of Virgos seem like Libras. Virgos organize stuff and read all the time, so they're fit to be in libraries. But the word Libra is in Library so wouldn't Libras be in libraries more often?? And then some Libras seem deep like Scorpios and some Scorpios are fun like Sag's and a lot of sag's are serious and mean like Capricorns. And Capricorns like Isaac Newton can be innovative like Aquarians.....


I remember going on astro and just clicking through the house systems and the chart didn't really seem to change much to me. Sometimes my Moon and Mercery would be placed in the 9th house when normally it's in the 8th house. And I'd think about it and weight it in my mind, "Oh my Moon is in the 9th I must be an explorer" but I'd just go with my Moon in 8th anyway because it didn't make sense to me. The Angular houses never changed though from what I saw. Katydid or Kitchy, idk I barely read a part of their post and she said to pay attention to the angular houses, which makes sense because they don't change.

I think I wrote too much :tongue:
 
Hi anjelik,

No matter what house system you use, the simple fact is the signs make aspects between themselves. The 7th sign is always opposed to the Ascending sign; the 4th sign squares the Ascending sign and the 7th sign; and the 3rd sign is sextile to the Ascending sign.

Sun in H3 does indicate communication skills. That's because the Sun tends to reflect the natural sign of the house it occupies. Gemini is the natural sign of H3. Overall, your communication skills will rely on the ruler of H3 and Mercury, but the Sun in H3 gives you a boost.

You might be better off reading your chart in Whole Sign. Equal Sign is also a better option than house systems.

I understand that, but wouldn't the actual house that the sign is representing affect the entire chart? Also, if a sign went from representing a cardinal house to a cadent house wouldn't that have some effect as well?
 
Cosmobiology doesn't use a house system. The emphasis is placed on planetary combinations and interactions and midpoints.
 
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I understand that, but wouldn't the actual house that the sign is representing affect the entire chart? Also, if a sign went from representing a cardinal house to a cadent house wouldn't that have some effect as well?

I don't understand the question. The 2nd, 6th, 8th and 11th signs are always cadent to the Asc/Dsc. House systems are arbitrary divisions of the sky (or the earth) that overlay the signs. The houses become heavily skewed as you move north from the equator creating intercepted signs and double signs.

For example, you can look at the chart of Bill Gates of Microsoft fame. Most charts with house systems give him Pisces on H9 and H10 with Aries intercepted in Leo in H10. No matter how you look at it, his Asc Cancer ruler Moon is in the 10th sign from the Asc, and that is the key to reading his chart, since the ruler of the 1st in the 10th indicates great honor. The Sun ruling the 2nd sign is in the 5th Sign showing philanthropic foundations for children.

The point is sometimes house systems lead to incorrect or bad interpretations.
 

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I am asking this from a curious perspective because I have always looked at my own natal chart in Placidus, because that is the default for astro.com and also the first way I ever saw my own chart when I was 15 and my mother gave me a computer print out from the 80s of an astrological analysis of myself.

But, if I used let's say, whole signs my chart slightly shifts and wouldn't that in turn impact my supposed personality? I'm just curious to hear from experienced astrologers because from a learning perspective, using whole signs seems easiest because then each planet represents a house and it would seem easier to read. But perhaps I really am a 3rd house Sun, because I am highly communicative. Perhaps that is not down to my Gemini Moon, but to where my Sun is really placed. That is just an example of the shift as my Sun is at the last few degrees of the 1st house using Placidus and does a shift to the 3rd house.

There are good reasons Placidus is placed atop the array of choices at astro.com. It has proved itself over many years and usage to be more reliable. I use nothing, but Placidus as it is the most accurate system we have up to 60-66° north/south latitude. No house system yet created is accurate beyond that.

The most important thing is to ensure your Asc sign and degree are accurate, then you have all matters of house accuracy put aside by using Placidus. A particular birth time timed to the minute does not guarantee this. No house system can be any more accurate for you than the Asc that is the 'zero point' of a particular chart.

Equal house is not a house system, but a tidy equal division of of the chart for the convenience of astrologers.
 
I don't understand the question. The 2nd, 6th, 8th and 11th signs are always cadent to the Asc/Dsc. House systems are arbitrary divisions of the sky (or the earth) that overlay the signs. The houses become heavily skewed as you move north from the equator creating intercepted signs and double signs.

For example, you can look at the chart of Bill Gates of Microsoft fame. Most charts with house systems give him Pisces on H9 and H10 with Aries intercepted in Leo in H10. No matter how you look at it, his Asc Cancer ruler Moon is in the 10th sign from the Asc, and that is the key to reading his chart, since the ruler of the 1st in the 10th indicates great honor. The Sun ruling the 2nd sign is in the 5th Sign showing philanthropic foundations for children.

The point is sometimes house systems lead to incorrect or bad interpretations.

I'm sorry if I am not being clear. For example, while using Placidus my 10th house ruler is Mars (in Libra in the 8th house) but using Whole Signs my 10th house ruler is Venus (in Capricorn in my 1st house). Being that my 10th house ruler is in detriment and in the 8th house, wouldn't that have a different effect than my 10th house ruler being in a neutral sign and in the 1st house? Also, this would shift my 5th house ruler from Mercury to Venus. Which would take from a semi-fruitful planet to a fruitful planet ruling my fertility. Just another example.

Am I still not making any sense or am I just over-complicating things for myself? I attached both charts so you can see what I am visualising here.
 

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There are good reasons Placidus is placed atop the array of choices at astro.com. It has proved itself over many years and usage to be more reliable. I use nothing, but Placidus as it is the most accurate system we have up to 60-66° north/south latitude. No house system yet created is accurate beyond that.

The most important thing is to ensure your Asc sign and degree are accurate, then you have all matters of house accuracy put aside by using Placidus. A particular birth time timed to the minute does not guarantee this. No house system can be any more accurate for you than the Asc that is the 'zero point' of a particular chart.

Equal house is not a house system, but a tidy equal division of of the chart for the convenience of astrologers.

I've read your other thread about Ascendants recently. I wonder how off most people's birth times really are. I am fairly certain mine is quite accurate, as my mother and her sister (my God Mother) were very into astrology when I was a child. My sister's birth time is down to the second, she is actually a Libra Sun by seconds. I see her as more Scorpio than Libra for sure though. My husband's birth time is something I question, but he definitely exhibits traits of an Aries Ascendant over a Pisces Ascendant and definitely NOT a Taurus Ascendant either. He is certainly Mars ruled, but his birth time is not on his birth certificate and he can only go by his mother saying she knows the time because a particular program was on TV at that time.
 

I'm sorry if I am not being clear.
For example, while using Placidus my 10th house ruler is Mars (in Libra in the 8th house)
but using Whole Signs my 10th house ruler is Venus (in Capricorn in my 1st house).
Being that my 10th house ruler is in detriment and in the 8th house,
wouldn't that have a different effect than my 10th house ruler being in a neutral sign and in the 1st house?
Also, this would shift my 5th house ruler from Mercury to Venus.
Which would take from a semi-fruitful planet to a fruitful planet ruling my fertility.
Just another example.

Am I still not making any sense
or am I just over-complicating things for myself?
I attached both charts so you can see what I am visualising here.

I use BOTH whole signs AND Alcabitius

whereas
tsmall uses BOTH whole signs AND Placidus

some use Regiomontanus
there are multiple house systems
its a matter of personal choice


I shall quote tsmalls comment
posted on another thread at
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94683

I use both whole signs and Placidus.

The original idea of quadrant based house systems was to determine angularity,
and never to replace the concept of topics.

So I count signs for topics

and use a house system overlaid onto it.

Because, as I mentioned above,

capability and angularity/ability to act

are two different things.
muchacho questions finding the most sensitive point of a whole sign house
Just whole sign houses isn't ideal because you have to somehow find the most sensitive point of a house (aka cusp).
Alkaid mentions the current understanding of whole signs
which differs from the way astrologers originally utilised whole sign houses


Well whole sign does have cusps: the 0 degree point at the beginning of every sign.
They may not be quite as sensitive as the quadrant house cusps, but they still work well.
That's current understanding of whole signs - BUT as dr. farr has stated many times
the 0 degrees beginning every sign in whole sign houses is the BORDER of the whole sign house NOT the CUSP :smile:

dr. farr explains
that the original meaning of the word "cusp" meant "point"
such as cuspal teeth (bicuspids) and the point of a sword
-so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something,
and in astrology originally the "cusp" of the whole sign house meant its "point"
NOT THE BORDER BETWEEN ONE HOUSE AND ANOTHER
BUT INSTEAD
THE POINT (cusp) for EACH house was the sensitive point of that house
i.e.
the ascending degree.

So the 0 degrees of whole sign houses determines the INGRESS point of planets
while the SENSITIVE POINT of whole sign houses is linked to the ascending degree

here's dr. farr's original clear, succinct explication/synopsis posted at
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=311413#post311413


Cusps:


Today
(and for the past thousand years or so)
we define cusps as "borders" (coasts),

but that is not the original meaning of the word "cusp":
it means "point"

such as
cuspal teeth (bicuspids)
and
the point of a sword

-so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something,

and
in astrology originally the "cusp" of the house meant its "point"
;

now, when quadrant systems were developed, this "point" of the house came to mean its "beginning",
which later came to mean its "border",
ie, the "border" between one house and the other.

And later astrology also began using these "borders" (cusps)
for various prognostic applications
(Charles Carter came to believe that, for timing of events, the "cusps" of the Campanus house system gave the best results,
among the various quadrant house systems)


But now notice this:
in whole sign the cusps are NOT the 0 degree "borders" of sign/houses at all, and never were so regarded!

In whole sign, the "cusp" retained its original meaning,
not as a "border"
but rather as A POINT


-and that POINT (cusp) for EACH house,
was the sensitive point of that house,
viz,
the sensitive point in whole sign houses
-each house
-that is the "cusp" of each house
-is a direct projection from the ascending degree.


Example:
-the ascending degree of a chart is 18 Taurus:
what are the house cusps
(sensitive points, original meaning of the word "cusp")
in the whole sign houses of this chart?
Cusp of 1st house = 18 Taurus
Cusp of 2nd house = 18 Gemini
Cusp of 3rd house = 18 Cancer
Cusp of 4th house = 18 Leo
Cusp of 5th house = 18 Virgo
Cusp of 6th house = 18 Libra
Cusp of 7th house = 18 Scorpio
Cusp of 8th house = 18 Sagittarius
Cusp of 9th house = 18 Capricorn
Cusp of 10th house = 18 Aquarius
Cusp of 11th house = 18 Pisces
Cusp of 12th house = 18 Aries

Now it is these "cusps"
(sensitive degrees, original meaning of the word "cusp" as a "point")
that are
(and were)
used for progressions, timing of events, etc,
and the fact is that they work for these purposes, quite well
(in expert hands)

Whole sign does not use the BORDERS between houses
(always 0 degree of any sign) for anything,
but it DOES use "cusps"
(points in the house, projected from the exact ascending degree)
for timing
(and other)
delineative purposes.


Whole sign suddenly vanished
(both in the West and in Vedic astrology)
during the same period of time
-ie, late 8th to early 9th century
-this sudden disappearance suggests a sudden turn in astrological thinking and practices,
rather than a gradual supplanting of a less effective traditional method
(whole sign)
by a new and more effective method
(rheotrius/alchabitius in the West,
and the closely related to whole sign Equal house, in Vedic astrology)


I quite agree with Waybread in the statement, "so what?" (if old time astrologers did or didn't do something)
For me, there is only 1 reason I switched to whole sign
-it worked better (FOR ME)
I could care less if it were the oldest house system
(which it is)
or whether it was invented by Badda Bing at Barney's Beanery in Bayonne, 10 years ago:
only things I consider are:
-does it seem to make sense?
-does it "taste good" to me
(ie, does it "feel right" to me)
-and, if yes to the above,
does it work
(producing delineations and predicitions)
better than what I have previously been doing?

Well, whole sign did all that, for me, so I switched;
but I am not going to try to convince anyone of anything about it,
except for beginners
-to you who might just be starting out,
I would say: try whole sign first,
and see how well it might work for you...
 
I'm sorry if I am not being clear. For example, while using Placidus my 10th house ruler is Mars (in Libra in the 8th house) but using Whole Signs my 10th house ruler is Venus (in Capricorn in my 1st house). Being that my 10th house ruler is in detriment and in the 8th house, wouldn't that have a different effect than my 10th house ruler being in a neutral sign and in the 1st house?

Yes, it would have a different effect. You should be modestly successful in some trade or profession, with Venus ruling H10 in H1. Travel should also be involved in your career.

Also, this would shift my 5th house ruler from Mercury to Venus. Which would take from a semi-fruitful planet to a fruitful planet ruling my fertility. Just another example.

It makes little difference, since in both cases you have the ruler of H5 in H1, which is a positive sign for fertility.
 
Yes, it would have a different effect. You should be modestly successful in some trade or profession, with Venus ruling H10 in H1. Travel should also be involved in your career.



It makes little difference, since in both cases you have the ruler of H5 in H1, which is a positive sign for fertility.

Well, I guess my point is, which is the correct way to read the chart? Because based on the 10th house ruler, it would appear I would have very different career ambitions between both charts.

And this is not only pertaining to me, I used myself as an example. So if a planet the rules a house moves to another house, this would obviously have some impact on how you read that person's chart, no?
 
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