Dream character analysis and connections to my natal chart.

[athenian200]

So, I knew I had this recurring dream with the same three characters sometime in 2007, and while I'm still not sure of the exact dates, I think one of them was sometime in August, and around August 20th seems most likely?

The characters:
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Picture three characters. One is a redcoat named James, looking like he's straight out of the 18th century from fighting the Revolutionary War on the British side. He's always holding a Bible and a sword, though sometimes the Bible turns into other things, like a student handbook or any kind of instruction manual. He generally is extremely dutiful, modest, respects authority, follows the rules, and tends to focus on things like morality, duty, behaving properly, etc. I'd say he's the main "face" I tend to show people in real life. If he were a real person, someone might diagnose him with dysthymia, because he is unable to derive pleasure from his own actions and is totally dependent on the approval of external authority figures to feel happy.

Another is a Vulcan from the 23rd century named Solok, looking like he just stepped off a starship. He holds a communicator and something like either a magnifying glass or a microscope, always looks at things more closely and scrutinizes them, while always sending and receiving observations. He tends to be very stoic and always points out when the other characters are doing or saying something illogical. He always tries to analyze everything and reduce the world to logic, tends to be most interested in technology and generally thinks technology and logic can solve every problem. He generally feels very detached from the world and from himself, just seems to be an observer who feels like he's watching everything from the outside. Almost seems dissociated in some way.

Finally, you have a girl named Althea. She would be an American artist and writer who was born about 10 years before I was in real life, with painted nails and a blue dress. For whatever reason she doesn't like shoes, or at most will wear flip-flops. She's always holding a pencil and a mirror. The pencil she uses to record her thoughts and express herself, and the mirror is something she's always using not only to gaze at her own appearance, but she also uses it to see other worlds, other times and places, etc. Basically, the impression you get is that she's very imaginative, creative, curious, tries to predict things. The main problem is that, well, she's female and doesn't feel very comfortable living in my male body, so she usually lets James or Solok face the world while she stays in the background.

James and Solok are always arguing, with James negatively comparing Solok to French revolutionaries and various Enlightenment figures, saying he's seen that kind of thing before, and Solok pointing out how James isn't very logical and is too attached to authority figures and the past. Which leaves Althea usually being the one to try and stop the fight, to come up with a compromise the other two can live with. Or, to put it another way... in some ways, it's like the dynamic in Star Trek, with James being a bit like McCoy and Solok being like Spock, with the problem that there is no Kirk or Picard figure who can take charge. Just Althea, who really doesn't want to be in charge, but is somehow more competent than the other two in any situation where there aren't clear rules or logical objectives to follow.

The astrology
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With James, I think he represents a dynamic that includes the Sun in Aries being ruled by Mars in Capricorn, which itself is ruled by Saturn in Capricorn. Uranus being there with Saturn is interesting, because it was discovered around the time of the American Revolution and was almost called George's Star instead of Uranus, after King George III. Generally, seems to be very focused on maintaining order and avoiding disruption, keeping schedules on track, upholding conventions and fulfilling duties of various kinds. Sometimes being very stubborn, argumentative, and irritable about these things. So a lot of Saturn, but also Mars serving Saturn.

Althea, similarly, seems to represent a dynamic involving the Moon in Libra being ruled by Venus in Taurus, which also happens to rule over Jupiter in Taurus. Generally, she seems to be all about finding compromise, imagination, optimism, making herself and others comfortable, wanting to create beauty and harmony, empathizing with others a lot, enjoying talking about people and psychology, tends to be very expressive and sensitive, artistic, etc. So mostly Venus, but also definitely Moon and Jupiter serving Venus.

Not really sure about Solok, except that he may well be Mercury in Pisces conjunct the North Node, along with the Aquarius MC.

But overall, the difficulties in the chart seem to be represented well by the way these characters struggle to work together productively, and want to go in different directions a lot of the time.

Not sure if anyone else has anything to add to that, or any additional insight, but I thought this might be interesting as a combination of dream analysis and astrology.

 

[athenian200]

So, now that I've opened up about feeling like a girl inside, I can explain what I think these three represent to me beyond what I normally share, and how it connects to my gender dysphoria.

So, basically, James is the part of me that is uncomfortable with the idea of transition. He probably represents morality, the superego, etc. He often talks about a "duty to be a man," and respect my parents, etc. Basically the feeling I get is that what James wants most is to be seen as respectable and good. He often compares the way I would be seen after transition to something like a much worse version of how someone who loses their virginity before marriage or gets divorced is seen. He's against the idea because he is deeply traditional and values honor, and feels that if I went through with it, I'd never be respectable again... that is, I'd enter into womanhood tainted somehow, and that's very hard for him to bear because he wants to be respectable in the eyes of authority, to be seen as a good person and live without the fear of being seen as immoral by traditional standards.

Althea, obviously, feels like a girl inside and is very much a fan of creativity, self-expression, individuality, open-mindedness and compassion more generally. While Solok and James have adapted in different ways to me having a male body, Althea doesn't seem to be able to do that. It really doesn't matter how much James talks about duty and morality, or how much Solok talks about logic and biology, she just continues to feel like a girl inside. She's good at diplomacy, compromise, creativity, but for whatever reason she cannot adapt to the idea of being a man at all. She has this intuitive idea that she is a girl, and likes the aesthetic of it, and just goes with it because it "feels right."

Solok is detached from both positions and mostly focuses on objective truth, analyzing things and trying to see reality as clearly as possible. In some ways, it seems like he is mostly there to point out when the other two say things that don't seem to accord with reality or reason, or in some cases to analyze difficult things in the real world.

There was a very sad conversation between Althea and James once, where they realized in some ways, what leads them to exist as counterparts to each other. Basically, James wants to be good, respectable, moral, upstanding, etc, but that means he has to be a man. Althea wants to be a girl, as well as open-minded, creative, artistic, etc... but that means she has to give up being good or respectable. Basically, Althea considers sacrificing goodness and respectability to be a girl, while James considers sacrificing the opportunity to live as a girl to keep goodness and respectability. So, overall, that means... I as a person probably want to be both a good, honorable person but also a girl, but the goals are incompatible, so I feel stuck because either way, I lose something I want.

There's another really obvious motif in the dream that I realized recently. The male characters are wearing military uniforms, and the female character is barefoot. That's a really good analogy for how presenting myself as a man or a woman feels. Presenting myself as a man makes me feel heavy and cut off from myself somehow. Like I'm wearing thick boots and a whole military uniform, or even a suit of armor, and focusing narrowly on a sense of duty or a specific goal. Like I can't feel myself, I'm a bit dissociated or something, watching myself from the outside. Everything I do seems to follow a lot of "rules," and I actually come across as having a bad case of autism sometimes, because whatever I'm doing seems to come across a lot like autistic masking, if you know what that is. Someone told me once that it seems like when I let my guard down and show my natural self (which would be Althea I guess), I seem to be able to make eye contact and read social cues but seem feminine/gay, while otherwise I seem like a classic Aspie guy that can't do those things. Like, I may be on the spectrum, but James seems way more Aspie than Althea does for whatever reason.

When I present as a woman, even online... it just feels really comfortable, but also kind of vulnerable. It's like the feeling you get when you come home after a long day at work and take your shoes off, but more on an inner level. There's no weight, no dissociation, and I feel rooted. I feel mentally and emotionally free to go wherever my creativity or curiosity takes me, and just express myself without a filter somehow.

So, I'm realizing I just need to put faith in my natural self, because... trying to have James or Solok run my life doesn't work, even if it numbs the dysphoria. I tried that many times, and it seems like it's always a bit dysfunctional and stuck in a rut when they try, since they're not adaptable. It seems like when Althea runs my life things just click, though it leads to more gender dysphoria. With Althea fully awake, Solok and James naturally do the things they're best at as required, and everything works somehow. It's just... despite all my misgivings and self-doubts, it's pretty clear to me that my natural feminine self is the best part of me, and living my life based on duty and logic while holding that back isn't going to get me very far.

I guess... I'll just have to do something to ease my conscience and feel like I'm earning back some of the respect I lost, though it will never be the same. Maybe some kind of community service or something? I would be living in a way that a lot of people don't see as respectable, but maybe if I'm also doing other stuff that's undeniably good, maybe they'll see that isn't all there is to me, that I'm not totally selfish and only concerned with myself despite the way I chose to live my life? I don't know why the way other people see me bothers me so much, it just.... does. Other people tell me I should just have this "don't give an f, demand respect, and make no apologies" attitude, but it's like... I'm just not built that way. You know what I mean? Whether I live as a man or as a woman, I guess I will still be an INFJ, and that means tending to be sort of sensitive, reserved, apologetic, shy, tending to want to justify yourself and appear moral and upstanding in the eyes of others. It seems to be true that your MBTI type does not change... in my case, it may well have persisted beyond my assigned gender identity. LOL.

So, this is kind of a window into the inner world of someone who has been living with gender dysphoria without transition. Logic, duty, and the part that operates on instinct and intuition and just won't stop seeing itself as a woman... all going in different directions and trying to make things work day-to-day.

 

[katydid]

I really could have used a 'hug' emoji right now, on the 'like' function, if we had one.

Your dreams are very detailed. It's amazing to see. There is no easy answer, as you have noted.

A T-square to Neptune in the 8th, from a Sun/Moon cardinal Opposition. An active struggle between yin/yang opposition, forming an apex to the 8th house Neptune in Capricorn. Saturn disposes that Neptune, but it is tightly conjunct Uranus, so that brings some chaos and upset to the equation?

/=

That^^^ seems like the perfect midpoint for gender dysphoria.

 

[IleneK]

All I can say, besides also wanting to offer a deep genuine hug, is a heartfelt thank you.
Please forgive no astrology. None comes to mind right now.
Warmly,
Ilene

 

[athenian200]

As far as astrology, one thing I could mention is that I have Chiron in the 1st House. Chiron shows where you're wounded. In my case, that's.... well, self, identity, physical appearance. Well, yeah, gender dysphoria is definitely one way that could manifest. And with Gemini, the Twins, you could easily see how you could have a fragmented or dual sense of self, like in the dream.

The other one that's obvious here is Venus in the 12th house. Venus is how you express beauty, femininity, or artistic impulses. 12th house is... sorrow, restriction, imprisonment, self-undoing etc. The planets are often denied natural expression... well, even looking at the difference between how Venus is to be read in a man's chart versus a woman's chart gives a really clear idea of what might be going on here. Notice in the man's chart, it's about the kind of woman he wants, perhaps his taste in art, house, car, various possessions. In a woman's chart, it's how she projects her femininity into the world of others. So... what happens when this assumption fails and you wind up with a male who wants to project femininity into the world of others? Well, even the difference I just outlined suggests you're going to be told "no" a lot, hit a lot of roadblocks, and thus Venus is denied natural expression. Hence, Venus in the 12th house. Probably even worse because Venus is in Taurus, and Taurus is the sign on the 12th house cusp.

Saturn is in the 7th house. You probably already know this one. It hints at delayed marriage, because the planet of limitation and restriction is in the house of partnership and marriage. How could this be connected with gender dysphoria? Well... why don't I tell you?

Again, it goes back to the relationship with Venus. So, let's say you want to project Venus into the world of others, hopefully to attract a partner. But in your case, you can't do that because you're too busy trying to learn the "rules" associated with manhood at a time when others are exploring their sexuality, and you dismiss your desire to project femininity as mere vanity and a pointless fantasy that needs to be held at bay. James tells Althea over and over to be modest, that men are clearly supposed to dress plainly or something. Guys in the locker room show you nude pictures of strange women. You don't feel anything, but everyone else seemed overcome with this frenzy you don't get. They're confused why you don't feel that way. They ask if you're "gay" and try showing you nude pictures of strange men. You still don't feel anything. They shrug and say you must be asexual.

Years later, when you're about 29, you meet a girl who everyone hates because she cheated on a man respected in the community. You develop an emotional connection with her, and you're a bit worried about her. She starts telling you about all the men in her life, and how she hasn't been single once since age 15 or so, going from one guy to the next, sometimes without even ending things with the previous one first. You become good friends, and then one day she tells you she's in love with you. You think she's joking and laugh a bit, because no one has ever thought you were attractive before, and you've just accepted it. She agrees it was a joke at first, but then comes back later and admits she wasn't joking.

She starts getting... kinda crude, telling you how you've been sexually frustrating her for a month now, that every trick she uses to get guys to make the first move so she can "get dick" hasn't worked with you, that you always act like a perfect gentleman and refuse to take advantage of vulnerability, yet also won't walk away and seem open to her... so now she doesn't know what to do except bluntly say she wants you that way, which usually never works with guys. You admit you don't have much experience with relationships and you've never kissed anyone before. She says, "I don't want to corrupt you," and you can tell she sees you as innocent and vulnerable somehow, seems to be barely holding back strong desires. This makes you feel really good inside, like the start of feeling attracted to someone for the first time in your life. Eventually she begs you for... umm, pictures and then bluntly tells you she pleasured herself while looking at them. Now all of a sudden, you feel really turned on and everything is working somehow. And you realize that it's because... someone you had an emotional connection with, found you attractive and chased you, while seeing you as innocent and vulnerable, basically. You realize you've never been in this situation once in your life, and that's why you thought you were completely asexual.

The sexual scenario she sets up is very, very bizarre, but you go along with it. She... is apparently attracted to little boys, and wants to pretend you are a little boy, and she's an incredibly horny Mom introducing a little boy to sex and explaining things like what a penis is and what she wants you to do with it in this really maternal yet naughty way. It... kinda works, probably better than anything else ever has, but still doesn't feel quite right. So, eventually the two of you start talking, and you find out she subscribes to Freud's theory of penis envy, because she's always wanted one. You say that you don't really understand anyone would want one of these, and that you've always felt like yours was just in the way. You kind of joke about wishing you could trade. You both wonder if you were husband and wife in a past life, but with her as the husband and you as the wife.

So, this is the story of what is very likely a closeted transman and a closeted transwoman trying to make the chemistry... umm, work, without accepting their gender dysphoria for what it is or confronting it head on. Technically, yes, you CAN setup a situation that makes you a little bit happy as a man. But look how long it took to make it happen, how perfect the conditions had to be, and how creative the workarounds to dealing with her being a girl and me being a boy had to be. No wonder Saturn is in the 7th house, right? Good luck finding someone who will be compatible with such an odd list of requirements.

James and Althea had more discussions about this at one point. James suggested that if the issue is that we need a partner to pursue us, we could try going to the gym or something like some guys do and trying to get really toned or something, because sometimes girls (and gay men) go for guys that look like that. Althea shook her head and said that wouldn't work, because a muscular guy is seen as a pillar of strength and someone to lean on in that case, whereas what she wants is to be pursued by someone she trusts because she's seen as innocent and vulnerable, and doesn't really want to be seen as a strong, rugged person that can be relied upon, so being more muscular would actually make that worse. James thinks for a moment, and then recalls a story where a guy was injured once, and the woman nursing him back to health fell in love with him, and wonders if that scenario would work. Althea thought about it and said that was closer, but still not as perfect as the experience she just had, because the nursing woman would be nurturing, and the ideal scenario is that the emotional connection exists first, she's found attractive, and then the person feels hungry and pushes for things to get more serious. Overall, they reluctantly agreed that the scenario we'd just been through was probably the most perfect one possible, as bizarre as it was. Althea adds that she's discovered from this experience that her sexuality seems very strongly tied to feeling attractive, so not being allowed to be vain or do anything with her appearance she wanted essentially resulted in accidentally repressing her sexuality entirely. James sighs, looking through the book and saying Althea's needs are really hard to meet within the guidelines he's been given, and he has no idea what to do for her. Althea shrugs and says she's used to that, and that she accepted long ago that she'll probably have a fairly empty life.