Using the Sabians on House Cusps

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daz_madrigal

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I was looking at Princess Diana's crash in the Paris tunnel in lieu of the recent ludicrous imbroglio with the braindead Meg & Harry and of course a few interesting comparisons resulted one of which I will mention shortly. Now the run of degrees ends at 7 degree of Capricorn on the eighth cusp with the actual crash (NOT the death of Diana which occurs later in hospital). The driver and Dodi Fayed both died as we must remember and of course the cusp was in Capricorn to add a sombre tone to the 8th house.

8th Cusp - FAMOUS DEATHS

Early capricorn is about short journeys so Pr. Diana's crash in the tunnel fits well with the degree symbology here.

Prior to the crash at 6 Cap is a frustrating degree hindering our path and suggesting we concentrate our attention to then avoid obstacles. (Dark archway with ten logs at the bottom Ten logs lie under an archway leading to darker woods).

The crash occurs at 7 Cap - a prophetic degree at best its more usually to do with anticipating events and then using caution rather than allowing the frustration of the previous degree to result in an injudicious display of power. (A Veiled Prophet).

Wisdom unfolds as we surrender into an acceptance of limits ( Cap 8 A Caged Bird with the door left open).


Interestingly Meghan & Harry's N.Y keystone kops episode in slow motion echoes the 1-6 capricorn period but this time on the Ascendant (Appearance?) rather than 8th house authenticity.
 
cont'd-

Both the 6th and 7th degree sabians have an air of mystery about them, so could be seen to foster conspiracy theories about Diana's death being planned by 'dark forces' in some way. Although it sounds plausible under the circumstances there isn't any clear astrological evidence to imply this.

7th 'A Veiled Prophet' is a mysterious symbol whilst the 6th degree itself - ''AN ARCHWAY LEADING TO DARKER WOODS'' is eerily reminiscent of an actual tunnel in the literal sense. Some interpreters such as Bovee have suggested that the 'Archway'' entrance may lead to another world entirely or at least hung in a state between two worlds. Life and Death?

Charubel symbolises the degree as 'A Maze' so again a description of something mysterious & potentially puzzling needing thought and concentration to clarify. Henson describes both degrees as prone to ''accidents'' which would be accurate in this case.

Exact on the ASC sits ''Hades'' the planet of the underworld In Greek mythology it rules the underworld of the dead. Lord of Discord, Eris, conjuncts Saturn (disagreement about death?) whilst the ruler of the 3rd (Chaffeur/Driver/short journeys) is on the Nadir.

On a lighter note the sabian for the apex of the chart for Jupiter-Mc is 15 Aq ''Two Lovebirds''. Sigh.
 

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I was just watching a special about these events last night, here in Europe. Thanks for generating the chart!

One thing to be careful of in your analysis:
  • 05 CP XX = Capricorn 6 (A dark archway and ten logs at the bottom) and
  • 06CP XX= Capricorn 7 (A veiled prophet of power) and
  • 07CP XX = Capricorn 8 (Birds in the house singing happily)
Also, I'd highly recommend using the original wording of the symbols given by Marc Edmund Jones of the Sabian Assembly rather than the altered ones given by Dane Rudhyar.
 
Yes I agree I prefer ME Jones in general and don't really know why anyone would want to change the symbol imagery unless they're presenting a totally new version (which I suppose Martin Goldsmith did).
 
Yes I agree I prefer ME Jones in general and don't really know why anyone would want to change the symbol imagery unless they're presenting a totally new version (which I suppose Martin Goldsmith did).
yes, Daz I agree whole-heartedly with what you've said.. On a somewhat related note, in my "Sabian Symbols and Stories" thread, I recently covered Capricorn 6 and Capricorn 7. The former is in the post about "Field of Dreams" while the latter is discussed in the "Stillwater" post.
here's a link for the second. https://www.astrologyweekly.com/for...sabian-symbols-and-stories.68976/post-1227124
And here's the link for the field of dreams post
 
I was just watching a special about these events last night, here in Europe. Thanks for generating the chart!

One thing to be careful of in your analysis:
  • 05 CP XX = Capricorn 6 (A dark archway and ten logs at the bottom) and
  • 06CP XX= Capricorn 7 (A veiled prophet of power) and
  • 07CP XX = Capricorn 8 (Birds in the house singing happily)
Also, I'd highly recommend using the original wording of the symbols given by Marc Edmund Jones of the Sabian Assembly rather than the altered ones given by Dane Rudhyar.
You should know darn well by now that Marc Edmond Jones couldn't hold a candle to Dane Rudhyar's interpretations. In fact Dane busted Marc for altering some of the symbols from those given by the clairvoyant, Elsie Wheeler. Marc altered a few drastically in order to get them to fit in with his own agenda. Dane was able to determine which symbols had been altered just by intensive study of the entire set. THe entire set is representative of a cycle of transformation. Dane visited Elsie Wheeler and got to see the original 360 index cards which upon each Marc wrote down what Elsie told Him that she saw for each degree.
Dane was not only given Marc's blessing to write a book on the Sabians but to also alter any of them as He saw fit to better get the precept of each symbol across to all.

You can't just reinterpret these symbols willy nilly to fit some agenda of your own.
For example, It would be akin of me to declare that because you are a Taurus everything you write or say is to be considered steer manure.
I suggest that you take the time to study the entire set, Rudhyar studied them for over 40 years before He published his book.
 
I'm really appalled by the lack of study demonstrated by the participants in this thread.
There's no indication of any understanding of what the Sabian Symbols truly are nor is there any indication of knowing how to apply them to astrology.
Read "AN ASTROLOGICAL MANDALA: THE CYCLE OF TRANSFORMATIONS AND ITS 360 SYMBOLIC PHASES" By Dane Rudhyar ...and read it cover to cover... I have, and at least five times.
 
I'd like to add, for those that were lured into this thread with the prospect about learning something of the correlation of Sabian Symbols with House Cusps, is to get a copy of the aforementioned book by Dane Rudhyar ...it's also online and can be read in its entirety [sans one esoteric chapter] ... and then read Part Three chapter 2, it's titled "The Cross And The Star". In that chapter Dane explains how the Sabian Symbols found at the four points of the chart axis [ the 1st, 4th, 7th, and 10th House Cusps, aka the Asc, I.C., Desc., and M.C.], are to be understood in a natal chart as that of "Who" you are, what you're to become, or the "Where-To" and "How" and "Why" it must be so. The Star is based on the M.C. and a perfect pentagram [a Grand Quintile] constructed to it. As the M.C. is the "HOW" of the above process, the I.C., the "WHY"... but in a mundane interpretation of a chart the M.C. and I.C. reverse roles. When the I.C. is the focus of a pentagram, then it becomes the "HOW" and the difference between upward pointing pentagrams and downward pointing pentagrams is most significant, INDEED.

Dane Rudhyar uses the first degrees of all the Cardinal Signs as an example to illustrate how the process is interpreted... and implies that Jesus of Nazareth would have had such a chart axis. [That's what I believe too, and have given much evidence for in many other threads.]
Rudhyar then uses a pentagram based on the 1st degree of Aries as an example for that interpretation. Those other four points are the 19th of Capricorn, the 7th of Scorpio, the 25th of Leo, and the 13th of Gemini.

My M.C. is the 24th of Leo, thus I have the same pentagram. The trick is in knowing where to begin to read the five symbols... each of the 72 pentagrams to be found in the Zodiac has a set of unique Sabian Symbols [as they are all unique from one another] that when put together, as a whole, constitute the outline of a "perfect story", or one might say, "a perfect script"...as Marc Edmond Jones did discover for himself...quite obviously, because, not long after he obtained the Sabian Symbols He began making a substantial side income selling scripts to Hollywood for many years.
The only thing is, is that Marc saw them of intrinsic value and as far as I know never did recognize them as a mandala of a perfect life plan of evolutionary transformation, yet it is also a process of spiritual evolution when read in the other direction beginning with Virgo 30 degrees, and unless Dane did ever manage to have an earnest talk with Marc about the subject of astrology, I don't know that Marc ever saw them for what they truly are. Most particularly for having the audacity to change a number of them to fit what He had presumed and hoped they added up to.

They are divine precepts and needs to be given the props. Dane did begin the study of it by taking a correspondence course by Marc... and just six years after beginning the study wrote "The Astrology of Personality", the only book on the subject of astrology chosen by the London Times in its list of the 100 Greatest Books of the 20th Century. Rudhyar had a set of Marc's symbols for about a little more than a year, or so, and figured out what they represent and even figured out which ones didn't belong... that is to say which ones Marc had changed. He found the clairvoyant, Elsie Wheeler, living nearby in San Diego and went and visited he and she produced the original notations of her descriptions to Marc. Dane found that He was right about Marc and had changed all the symbols Dane suspected. [Dane was in L.A. at Annie Besant's invitation to work and it was She that go him to study Astrology.] Dane recognized that the Sabian Symbols are representative of a process of transformation and insinuated, in a number of works, that they could also be read as symbolic of transcending the material world, transcending Maya, as the Vedic philosophers would say. ["All paths of true discipleship begin in Virgo" Rudhyar] Dane saw his first set of the Sabian Symbols in 1932 but it wasn't until 1973 that He published his book on them... when He was 78 years old.
One last thin. Marc Edmond Jones once said, "Rudhyar is a metaphysician. I am a clinician."

So, getting back to "THE STAR", it's only the M.C., the 10th House Cusp, of the natal chart that is involved , but the other four pints should be read in Clockwise order beginning with the one below the Asc., then the one above the Asc. and East of the M.C., then the M.C., and so on. At least that's the way mine has made sense to me and I'm at 70 years old and have pretty much got most all of it behind me to look at now. They definitely all belong together.
Those five Sabian Symbols give an outline of the perfect life led in harmony with ones M.C., the "HOW" of a natal chart interpretation [and the 10th House Cusp represents ones' "Career", but when one is striving on the path of spiritual evolution the "HOW", is that of "SERVICE"...that's the pentagram pointing upward... you do what you do for ^ ...and isn't that beautiful thing?
So, you have to initiate those other four precepts, employ them... or you'll find that they did get deployed, only you were never really aware of it

What you seem to be attempting using these symbols is rather odd. Macabre actually. Remember they represent a cyclic process of transformation and so then...
What cycle do yo see the event of Diana's death to be a part of?
I would be more prone to look at Her progressed natal chart
 
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You should know darn well by now that Marc Edmond Jones couldn't hold a candle to Dane Rudhyar's interpretations. In fact Dane busted Marc for altering some of the symbols from those given by the clairvoyant, Elsie Wheeler. Marc altered a few drastically in order to get them to fit in with his own agenda. Dane was able to determine which symbols had been altered just by intensive study of the entire set. THe entire set is representative of a cycle of transformation. Dane visited Elsie Wheeler and got to see the original 360 index cards which upon each Marc wrote down what Elsie told Him that she saw for each degree.
Dane was not only given Marc's blessing to write a book on the Sabians but to also alter any of them as He saw fit to better get the precept of each symbol across to all.

You can't just reinterpret these symbols willy nilly to fit some agenda of your own.
For example, It would be akin of me to declare that because you are a Taurus everything you write or say is to be considered steer manure.
I suggest that you take the time to study the entire set, Rudhyar studied them for over 40 years before He published his book.
tl;dr
 
You should know darn well by now that Marc Edmond Jones couldn't hold a candle to Dane Rudhyar's interpretations. In fact Dane busted Marc for altering some of the symbols from those given by the clairvoyant, Elsie Wheeler. Marc altered a few drastically in order to get them to fit in with his own agenda. Dane was able to determine which symbols had been altered just by intensive study of the entire set. THe entire set is representative of a cycle of transformation. Dane visited Elsie Wheeler and got to see the original 360 index cards which upon each Marc wrote down what Elsie told Him that she saw for each degree.
Dane was not only given Marc's blessing to write a book on the Sabians but to also alter any of them as He saw fit to better get the precept of each symbol across to all.

You can't just reinterpret these symbols willy nilly to fit some agenda of your own.
For example, It would be akin of me to declare that because you are a Taurus everything you write or say is to be considered steer manure.
I suggest that you take the time to study the entire set, Rudhyar studied them for over 40 years before He published his book.
You sound upset and defensive.
 
You sound upset and defensive.
Is that the best you've got?
I sound? Maybe you should try adjusting the audio... too much Bass, perhaps?
Try the Trout setting, or perhaps the Salmon?
Then maybe you can get jiggy with it.
[or was that "getting giddy with it"? Yeah, "giddy", that's the ticket...!!]
 
Yes I agree I prefer ME Jones in general and don't really know why anyone would want to change the symbol imagery unless they're presenting a totally new version (which I suppose Martin Goldsmith did).
Marc Edmund Jones actually change some of the original Sabian Symbols provided by the clairvoyant Elsie Wheeler to fit his agenda, but Dane Rudhyar use the original Sabian Symbols by Elsie Wheeler because he actually asked her for the original Sabian Symbols, whereas Marc Edmund Jones never asked her at all for the original and just keep his agenda
 
Marc Edmund Jones actually change some of the original Sabian Symbols provided by the clairvoyant Elsie Wheeler to fit his agenda, but Dane Rudhyar use the original Sabian Symbols by Elsie Wheeler because he actually asked her for the original Sabian Symbols, whereas Marc Edmund Jones never asked her at all for the original and just keep his agenda
That's an interesting story. Did you make it up all by your self or did you have help?
 
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