piercethevale
Well-known member
So, you are saying that you believe a man such as He would have to have these aspects you've mentioned, or are you basing this on what was in aspect at that date in 60 A.D.?
If you will refer to the chart I produced, it does have Sun and Uranus in Aries, and a Virgo Moon.
Most people seem to insist on believing that He would have Venus in Pisces, which is also wwhat the chart I produced has. Venus in Taurus would be in a Sign of its own rulership and then are you suggesting that you think Venus should be the final depositor of the natal chart of such a man?
Libra is the Asc. in my chart, Pluto in Libra As I am of the belief that the Planet that rules Sagittarius and Pisces was shattered and became the asteroids, well then, any planet found in either of those two signs is unable to deposit itself.
I cannot be dissuaded from that belief about those two Signs and the asteroids either. I spent many months studying the issue, my brother, whom is far more studied in the occult and esoteric lore and origins of the science of astrology also is of like mind. As He once told me, but couldn't remember the source so as to cite, he read that "Lucifer shattered that planet between Mars and Jupiter so as to confuse the psyche of mankind"
I don't buy into the theories of Stitchin, however. If I were to be asked to guess where my brother read that I would be, at the present, most likely to say that he possibly read it in "Hamlet's Mill" by Giorgio de Santillana. That is a book I tried to read many, many, years ago but much like the writings of Gurdjieff I found it preponderantly "thick" and difficult too read and mentally digest. As I have stated many times, my intelligence is in the realm of mathematics, physics, the physical sciences in general... I scored in the 98th percentiles when tested for aptitudes in those subjects while i was in school as a lad but my reading comprehension, vocabulary associated aptitudes and such were tested to be in the lower ranges of average. thus the reason despite my having what was tested to be an I.Q. around 134 when I was in school, I couldn't complete a college education and dropped out after only acquiring about a years worth of credits..and that was for three years of effort.
I read, but not a great deal compared to most people, I hate writing as for the reason I'm just not very good at it, [if one has difficulty in reading comprehension, then it stands to reason they aren't going to ever amount to much as a writer, either.] yet, here I am, apparently "chosen" for this task... as more than one clairvoyant has told me, and a couple of gurus... go figure?
I read what i find to be of real interest, so much so that I just have to read it out of extreme interest and desire. If something doesn't "ring true" to me at the onset, or soon after, I toss it aside.
Like my M.c. and Part of Fortune [which is conjunct with my M.C. in the 25th degree of Leo has for their Sabian Symbol {the M.C.'s Sabian Symbol being the "WHY" of one's natal chart axis, that is the "WHY" of the transformation given from the symbolism found for the Asc. to that of the symbolism found for the Desc., i.e. the "WHERE-TO" [or "WHOM-TO", as I sometimes use, for easier understanding for some people] and the M.C.'s Sabian Symbol being the "HOW" of the char axis' given transformation when interpreted as to ones spiritual evolution [ the former in regard to ones mundane affairs] and that the Part of Fortune symbolically gives the action, or societal role one must portray in accordance with their native culture, or the individual mental attitude one must always keep in mind [one of those three concepts as those are the three types of Sabian Symbols as to how hey are to be understood and employed] the 25th degree of Leo being that of the "EMOTIONAL/CUTURAL" variety of Sabian Symbol, as identified by Dane Rudhyar is given as thus by Dane [and when you read it keep in mind that it is the "HOW" of my transformational process, regarding my spiritual self, the "WHY" as to all mundane endavors in my life and also the Sabian for the Part of Fortune that I have...so it is that which when I do keep it as an Emotional/Cultural guide and do so stick to it as being what will produce the most fortuitous circumstances as an outcome to give the greatest aid in achieving that transformation, to achieve my destiny, to fulfill my dharma, "that" which some have sid I was chosen for and maybe you come to the same understanding I eventually did. that I had to avoid so many books, and schools of though, teachers on various subjects because ther are more false teachings, wrongful beliefs, corrupted truths out there awaiting to cloud ones mind and thinking that there are ready truths to be found...[there can only be one truth about anything...but and endless amount of lies. Which is kind of a description of the internet at present, isn't it? It is if you think about it, that is] [ibid.]
LEO 25°: A LARGE CAMEL IS SEEN CROSSING A VAST AND FORBIDDING DESERT.
KEYNOTE:
Self-sufficiency in the face of a long and exhausting adventure.
The camel here represents a living organism that is able to sustain itself independently of its environment at the start of a trying journey. (The original formulation of the symbol did not refer to 'a man on camel back'.) The organism carries within itself what is absolutely needed for survival. At the deeper human level of consciousness it is easy to see the value of self-reliance and self-sufficiency as one enters the occult Path leading to a more dynamic and more inclusive realm of existence.
The camel carries water within its body, and it is said that the dromedary is able to utilize the matter stored in its large protuberance as food. The suggestion here is that in order to be released from bondage to the 'old world' we should be completely self-contained emotionally; having absorbed the mental food which this old culture has given us, we are ready to face "the desert," nothingness, Sunya . . . until we reach the 'new world.' We need TOTAL INDEPENDENCE from our surroundings and utter SELF-RELIANCE."
In the town I lived in from age ten until I graduated from high school, Tujunga, Calif. being on the Western Slope of the extent of the San Gabriel Mountain range where it stops and the San Fernando Valley lies below it some 2200 feet, the most prominent feature of the crest of that slope the town sits upon is the ridge leading up to Mt. Lukens behind the town, that ridge is called "Camelsback" ... coincidence, or perhaps just another "sign" put in place to give me reassurance if needed later in life...[as it wasn't unil 13 years after I had graduated from high school that I even lerned of the existence of the Sabian Symbols, much less what Sabians are significant to my own natal chart.
Even my spritual path has been one of self discovery and self suffieciency...as I didn't know it at the time but that path of discipleship began at age 15 when I first tried meditation and the use of Japa yoga, and after trying to find my true guru, my true yogic path for years, only to give up and remain true to my own practice and beliefs as what little technique of yogic practices I was given and worked for me and what beliefs I came to conclude were genuine, did I find out at age 50 that I had my guru all along... learning it from a book written by Swami Sivananda [whom I had had darshan with in a most vivd dream in 1975... a dream in symbolic demonstration that wasn't to be fully understood until the day came that the yogi, my friend I met in August of 1973, showed my that book by Swami Sivananda on Japa Yoga and I read that I am a most rare type of yogi given the rarest path I've ever heard of, my only guru is the bij, the Logos, AUM [or OM, however one prefers it be spelled in the English alphabet] not to be a renunciate, but to remain immersed in the societies of the temporal world, that such a yogi works through the chakras, that is masters them, in the reverse order form that which all other yogis master them. i.e. from the crown chakra to the base of the spine. That I have no satguru other than the bij, ...that is not Jesus/Yeshu'a, not Rama, not Buddha, not Mohammed, [I would add Khrishna here, but I've never been too sure if htat would be also correct as Krishna, as I understand it, was a manifestation into the flesh of the Christ spirit, itself... although I maybe wrong about that. It may have likely been a sould so advanced that it was already one with the Christ spirit when they were born...which makes more sense to me, but I don't wish to sep on any theological toes here, especially not those of the Hindu's and the practitioners of Vedic rites and such... whatever they believe is fine by me. So I suppose then I should add, not even Krishna, may I have as an archetype, a satguru, a "savior"... only the bij, the word of God, itself, is what I bow to and obey.
...which led me to the realization, that being so rare a being...possibly the only one presently alive even...as i have no knowledge of their being any other... that leaves me to be truely, and most correctly, taen o be of absolutely no bias towards or against any religion, true spiritual religion that is, in existence...and in all honesty, I haven't any. I have found truth in all that I studied, i.e. Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Hebrew, Christian, Manicheism, Bahai, Sikhism, Zen [I really dug the writings of Alan Watts when I was in my late teens and early 20's, then I discovered the writings of Ram Das and his book "Be Here Now"]...and the many sects found within most all of the afrementioned... some have their "kinks" and flaws, most all of them to some minor or greater extent...imho, that is... but all ultimately are sincre and are helpful in assisting one towards their goal of attain total spiritual evolution, transformation and then transfiguration...a being that is free of this imprefect reflection of the realm of perfection. That's what Yeshu'a did, He moved on upward and on ward...although as I presently understand it He is bound to this realm so as to assist all that may be in need of him as their archetype, their satgure, their savior... that statement of His, " I am the first and the last" becomes a lot more clear, totally understandable, when one takes into account what Edgar Cayce said as to whom the soul is that was Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth [one half of he soul of which the other half was Mariam, his virgin mother...and the had both been the Adam and Eve of the Red race, Five Adams, Five Eves, a pair for each of the Five Races of Man... but it was the pair from the Red race, those of the story of Genesis, in the Hebrew Tanakh... the Hebrews had been those that came to Egypt at the sinking of the last portion of Atlantis apprx. 12,500 B.C., that had built the Great Pyramid and the Sphinx, immediately upon arriving, became the belief known as the Aton [or Aten] of ancient Egypt [read Sigmund Freud's, Moses and Montheism for more about that] and placed a time capsule of all ancient history of mankind and past forgotten knowledge under the Sphinx, somewhere... i.e. what Cayce referred to as "The Hall of Records" of which two more identical chambers, "Halls" exist elsewhere on earth...all not to be found until humankind is again ready to know these things...and three of them will be discovered almost simultaneously so as to eliminate any doubts about the authenticity and genuineness of those accounts and such [the others allegedly somewhere in Tibet {I think I recall, maybe it was Nepal...up there, somewhere} and one sunken in the Atlantic Ocean on what was the continent of Atlantis at one time...but will arise again from the sea in the future, as explained by Edgar Cayce]
If you will go to my thread on The Astrological Parts derived from my natal chart for Jesus you will find that the Part of Bondage derived from that same natal chart is in the 30th degree of Aquarius. It is one of those degrees of the Zodiac for which the Sabian Symbol given by Elsie Wheeler was altered by Dane, but still represents, symbolically, the same precept. It also happens to be the longest worded description of a Sabian Symbol out of all 360 of them...since Dane re-described it.
I find it to be about as perfect a description of the 'Grat White Brotherhood", aka "The White Lodge", r.e. the assmbly of the Ascended Masters that have spirtually evolved from karmic bound to his earth and realm but remain here, in the etheric, or possibly the astral, realm so as to be of assistance to the rest of mankind... and hence what I was getting at in referring to jesus/Yeshu'a's statement 'I am the ifrst and I am the last"... I believe He was the first to have to enter this realm...being of the pair that gave cause for all to be banished from Eden, and thus having been the cause of that is karmically bound here until the last sould is free from it.
That Sabian Symbol for the 30th degree of Aquarius, the location of the Part of Bondage derived from my natal chart I contend is the true natal chart of the Nazarene is [ibid.]
"AQUARIUS 30°: DEEPLY ROOTED IN THE PAST OF A VERY ANCIENT CULTURE, A SPIRITUAL BROTHERHOOD IN WHICH MANY INDIVIDUAL MINDS ARE MERGED INTO THE GLOWING LIGHT OF A UNANIMOUS CONSCIOUSNESS IS REVEALED TO ONE WHO HAS EMERGED SUCCESSFULLY FROM HIS METAMORPHOSIS.
KEYNOTE: The ability for the person with an open mind and a deep feeling for self-transcendence to come in contact with higher forms of existence.
The originally recorded Sabian symbol stated: 'The field of Ardath in bloom'. which referred to a scene in an occult novel by Marie Corelli centering upon ancient Babylon. The reference may well have been a 'blind' inasmuch as Marc Jones has stressed his inner contact with a Brotherhood with Babylonian (or 'Sabian') roots. A spiritual Brotherhood constitutes a state of 'multi-unity' — i.e. a multiplicity of individuals, if one thinks of the paths they trod to reach their final metamorphosis, but a unity of consciousness and 'Soul' —thus unanimity ('anima' meaning Soul). In this spiritual Whole each unit is a recognizable 'form' or entity if one looks at it with the eyes of personality; but when seen through a unified spiritual vision or from a distance, the Whole appears to be one single area of radiant light. Similarly, when studied by the modern physicist, light can be apprehended either as a stream of identifiable particles (photons) or as one continuous wave. Whether it is seen as one or the other depends on the point of view.
This is the last and culminating symbol of Scene Twenty-two of the cyclic ritual. This is indeed a fitting symbol, as the number 22 symbolizes all forms of mastery. At any level, it is a symbol of spiritual group fulfillment — of CONSCIOUS TOTALITY OF BEING."
Yeshu'a/Jesus' Part of Bondage. That is demonstrating that He is in Karmic bondage to the "White Lodge", to become one of the Ascended Masters, perhaps He may have even been the first, but He certainly will be the last after every soul that is karmically bound to this plane of existence has finally been freed. "I am the first and the last".
I have been to the "White Lodge" during this present incarnation of mine. It happened when i made samadhi with the bij while meditating for the first time at age 15. It was a very brief visit, just there and back. long enough to see that it does indeed exist, what it is comprised of [just like the Sabian Symbol for the 30th degree of Aquarius illustrates...and their were all singing, as just like a church choir, a song comprised of one word, that consists of one note... the bij, in the Key of Aum, is best how I can describe it...and I, having made samadhi with the bij, resonated in that key... my soul rang like a bell made from the finest, the purest, crystal... everyone will experience this eventually, some have already, and I have no doubts that there are some whom do so at will when ever, where ever, for what ever reason there be. Those yogis that attain the recognition of "Swami" I have to imagine most, if not all, have that ability...may be some a bit more easily than others?...maybe? I am of inclination to believe that during the Kali yuga it was a bit more difficult to attain that level and also maintain it.
So, then, another Astrological Part derived from this natal chart...so perfect out of the 360 possible for to be symbolically that of in regard to Jesus/Yeshu'a and the precept given that is the provenance of the Astrological Parts' proper title. {As I have been in effort since creating the thread on the Astrological Parts listing to either prove the appropriateness of what the accepted title is, or which of the number of accepted given titles should be considered to be the most appropriate, by demonstrating that through an astrological Part taken fro the verified, bonafide, true natal chart of a person of well known historical accountings... of which I have used this natal chart I contend is the true natal chart for Jesus/Yeshu'a, be that as difficult as it is because of the ever incessant outcry of dissension regarding its validity. Yet so many , such as the Part of Fortune, the Part of Catastrophe, the Part of Increase and Benefits, the Part of Soul, the Part of Hyleg [by the traditional formula, at least as that formula is the only one accepted presently] in addition, the Sabian Symbol for the 12th House cusp, which is said to symbolize what the individual will say is the answer to the most daunting challenge, issue, problem, enigmatic question that the world presently faces [that is as to "presently' that would be during the individuals lifetime, but in regards to this natal chart of Yeshu'a/Jesus and what that Sabian Symbol is [ibid.] "VIRGO 4°: BLACK AND WHITE CHILDREN PLAY TOGETHER HAPPILY.
KEYNOTE: The overcoming of socio-cultural prejudices." and Dane's 'Keyword' for this Sabian Symbol being "BROTHERHOOD"
...AND IMHO, IT IS JUST AS DAUNTING, AS CHALLENGING, AS ENIGMATIC AND PROBLEMATIC NOW, PARTICULARLY IN THE UNITED STATES, AS IT MUST HAVE BEEN IN THE WORLD AT LARGE 2000 YEARS AGO.
With such an amount of evidence to date of the appropriatness of Sabian Symbology that this natal chart produces for that man known as Jesus/Yeshu'a of Nazareth and the inability of any other chart yet proposed or reviewd to even come clsoe, and many lacking even a single appropriate Sabian Symbol, I am perplexed at the still persistent stiff, unflinching, resistance on the part of my fellow astrologers to admit that it is at the very least most seemingly appropriate...hard nosed religious fundamentalists [what they perceive as being fundamental, anyways] the 'Hell fire and Brimstone, evangelistic type, the avowed of allegiance to the Vatican, and brainwashed that are incapable of thinking for themselves...those I can understand being resistant... but you astrologers...?
I have now almost completely resolved myself to the belief that it will take until the time that most, if not all, of you have died off and another generation of star gazers is the majority audience, those born under the influence of the Uranus Neptune conjunction in Capricorn in the late 1980's to mid 1990's, perhaps...and seems, imho, very likely to be the ones that will readily see the veracity of it and will both accept it and utilize it and will make great leaps foreword in advancing the understanding and usefulness of this science known as astrology.
I pray that I live at least long enough to see the first unmistakable stirrings of such... which, hopefully will be not more than another 25 years into the future... I'll be 92 years old by then...bout as long as I might expect to live.
But... getting back to you, CapAquaPis, and what I showed you about myself through that symbolism of the Camel crossing the desert...that I had to find my own path... that my teachers, in yoga [my mother] in astrology [my free thinking, highly intelligent, most studied in esoteric and occult lore, i.e. my brother Daniel] my teacher of astrology... only the "word of God" as my spirtual giuide and authority, I even had to teach myself to play a musical insrument, from a book and by listening to recrdings [the five string banjo] taught myself how to play tennis [and I played on the varsity teams in high school and college] studied all religions independently [and have come to the conclusion that they will all 'get you there", as long as you remain faithful and do the ascribed rites properly] ... that I was given such a path as that is what it took to arrive at and recognize, and not have any compunctions leading to reactionary denials of what truths were right there before me, naked to the eye... it takes that kind of independence from dogma and obfuscating rhetoric and especially from b.s, half truths, and outright lies, and of all the members i have met here and got to know these last 12 years C.A.P., you are one that is of the few that come closest to being exactly that in description of.
Think for yourself, let go of the dogma and rhetoric you've been practically bludgeoned with and embrace what truth you will eventually truely see.
I have faith in you yet...
What an intriguing thread. I’m glad that there is an awareness that Jesus Christ was not born in the winter but rather around spring or summer 
That would either make him an Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, or Leo for his natal sun. As for his rising, moon, venus, mars, mercury and so on is surely a mystery. Again, so happy to come across such a thread. I would like to leave this verse from the holy scripture 
