Is North Node really our purpose?

[thelivingsky]

A question for experienced astrologers: Is N. Node our life purpose? Is it our Soul purpose? Are these the same?

Isn't the Sun and the Ascendant ruler more descriptive of our purpose?

Sometimes I think the N.Node is a task or skill or lesson we are being asked to learn in this lifetime for the purpose of helping us reach our potential, but that potential is more about the rest of the chart. Sometimes I think the entire chart describes our life purpose, at least as far as our participation on the material plane here in "earth school."

What happens if someone has Sun or Moon or both, or their ruler on their South Node. Does this mean they will need to spend their life denying, fighting, working against these influences? Fighting there basic fundamental nature?

Any thoughts?

 

[Frisiangal]

Hi thelivingsky,
My first astrology teacher presented a way of looking at the nodal 'path' in a manner I was able to understand and follow and, seemingly, have long been experiencing within myself (5th to 11th across Capricorn to Cancer/ Aquarius to Leo).
She said the nodal path was like a (train) journey from A to B, during which one felt to get on and off at any station 'to take in the scene', whilst remaining seated at others. It didn't matter how long and where the journey took one, but it WAS a forward journey, picking up experiences on the way, that led one to a final (pre?)destination. Personally, I don't see the N.N. as 'purpose'.

I suppose the urge to get off wherever comes through the planetary functions and their signs, and 'the scene' is the backdrop of the house system one uses. From observation of charts, conjunctions to the nodes seem to be the most strongly experienced; trines the easiest. The transits and progressed techniques offer the whenever.

Personally, I have come to believe that it isn't one single factor to which the nodal path refers. It's a combination that can take in a whole range of possibilites, depending upon the influences from a planet, sign, their aspects and house positions that make up the life's (spirit) journey itself .... by land (body/physical), air (mind/mental), or sea (soul/feeling). Some will travel light with no, or little baggage, whilst others have, or pick up, a trunk full of experiences on the way that effect the speed of the journey. Time is of no essence. It's 'a journey of a lifetime'.

I wonder if your post is encouraged by current important transits or progressions to the nodal axes, TRUE and MEAN,; the inner and outer experiences? I have transiting Pluto conjoining both over 2 years. I have almost been longing for it to occur because there is so much in the S.N Capricorn çonditioned past' and Aquarius 'freedom of independent thought' that has affected the course my 5th to 11th house life's journey has taken. I never thought that Pluto to the nodal axis could be so relevantly powerful, proving yet again that the potency of astro. symbolism does work.

As but one very recent example.
Earlier this month I lost my dearest eldest sister to deteriorating health in advanced age. Obviously her passing has affected my usual rational side very emotionally, yet moreso than might otherwise be expected because of a further factor. I am now the only remaining living member of my immediate family into which I was born. I am also the last to carry the family name. My father had one sister with two girls, and my late brother's son had no children. It is a very strange feeling to be the last, after which the family name no longer exists after who knows how many centuries. Yet, at the same time there is, hopefully, a final release occuring from the personal 5th house priorities that held me within their grasp for so long. Over the years I have very slowly but gradually become emotionally detached (Cancer, 11th house) from their influences to live an independent life (Leo). Being of the Pluto in Leo generation, it could be said that it's about time.

Hoping this can offer some guidance towards finding answers for yourself.

 

[thelivingsky]

Frisiangal,
Thank you so much for this detailed reply. Yes, I have long thought transits to one's nodes or the transiting node to a planet or point are often overlooked.

At this time my Nodes are not being impacted by any of the outer planets being at 2 Virgo/Pisces except Mars over it now. I asked this question because I had pretty much come to my own conclusions on the question, but wanted to check in with others just in case I was being blinded by my own bias or limited experience. And just this morning I heard some one on a podcast say again that "the N.Node is your purpose" which I think confuses people - it is too simplistic.

One thing I think I have discovered is that most people do not get a sense of their N.Node imperative, the lesson that they need to learn until middle age if at all. Sometimes it's easier and more natural if they have planets, particularly Sun or Moon on it. And conversely people who have planets on the S. Node seem to cling to that with greater tenacity.
Barb

 

[John Thompson]

I'm not an astrologer who has delved intensely into the 'esoteric' or spirituality of astrology; it's just a by product of studying and experiencing the phenomena that we encounter with practising our astrology. However I did play in an early [medieval], spiritually based music group with Mary Devlin who wrote a book titled 'The Astrology of Past Lives' and was a pupil of the acclaimed astrologer Marcia Moore; both were regressionists.
She always pointed out that the nodes as intersections of the Moons orbit, somehow shows our internal need structures being both experienced and expressed internally and externally; hence, in Ebertins the Combination of Stellar Influences he talks of associations and alliances.
Devlin always said that as a reflective planet/light, the Moon position should never be considered solely by the sign it's in; essentially it's a planet/light of polarity. To her, my Gemini Moon should be seen as Gemini/Sagittarius. Personally I believe our purpose/calling comes from the MC, and yet the need structures and associations/alliances that we make via the Moon and its nodes help to facilitate this.
My Moon is 9 degrees applying to the NN [square Venus exactly on MC]; at the age of 9 I was awarded my first Royal Schools of Music exam, and was the youngest child in Essex ever to be allowed to have peripatetic brass lessons in the same year.

 

[Peakachoo79ta]

It can be! But it's more the karmic lessons you need in order to surpass your blockages in life!

 

[ChevyD]

A question for experienced astrologers: Is N. Node our life purpose? Is it our Soul purpose? Are these the same?

Isn't the Sun and the Ascendant ruler more descriptive of our purpose?

Sometimes I think the N.Node is a task or skill or lesson we are being asked to learn in this lifetime for the purpose of helping us reach our potential, but that potential is more about the rest of the chart. Sometimes I think the entire chart describes our life purpose, at least as far as our participation on the material plane here in "earth school."

What happens if someone has Sun or Moon or both, or their ruler on their South Node. Does this mean they will need to spend their life denying, fighting, working against these influences? Fighting there basic fundamental nature?

Any thoughts?

I am fascinated by the moon and the nodes and have done extensive research on meaning, placements lol.

I believe that the NN is our ambition, our desire, but not our purpose. If you have a stronger NN placement than MC placements then your ambition(NN) will drive your MC placements.

Purpose is your reason, which you need the whole chart for. I believe the very reason for our existence can be seen in the natal chart but no one has the skills or knowledge to truly decipher all the intricacies in the chart. We may be a planet short that hasn't been discovered yet which may fill in some of the gaps.. who knows lol.

 

[Frisiangal]

It can be! But it's more the karmic lessons you need in order to surpass your blockages in life!

It's considered to be Saturn that is linked to karma or 'past life' experience, even in this one (i.e. 7 stages of Man)! Its reputation as the planet of blockages, limitations, yet also applying self-protecting and defensive boundaries, in manifested life is renowned. Yet what of those people with a Saturn in positive aspect and position, and not linked to the nodal axis? How can any nodal influence to them then be explained?
Saturn's exterior life experiences are opposite to those of the Moon's internal reactional response experience towards them. It's the Moon's orbit that crosses the Sun's path (ecliptic) that determines the position of the nodes. Saturn's very slow orbit of the Sun never comes close to, let alone across it. So how can it be influentual in that respect?

IMvHO.

thelivingsky
just this morning I heard some one on a podcast say again that "the N.Node is your purpose" which I think confuses people - it is too simplistic.

Different astrologers have different mental wave lengths with which they interpret the symbolism. Statements of personal views are not always a reflection of the ultimate truth ..... and who dares to know and state that they do.

 

[thelivingsky]

Everyone,
Thanks for the all the responses.

Chevy D- that is an interesting concept about the ruler sometimes being stronger than the NN. Would you say my NN placement is stronger than my MC ruler? My NN sextiles my Sun and Chiron, the Sun is chart ruler since I am Leo rising; but my MC ruler, Venus is angular and at 15 of a fixed sign. I can post my chart if you wish. It feels that they are about the same in their hold on me, I desire both. I have had a much easier time achieving my Sun's ambitions. Curiously , after being unable to work in the profession I was trained for due to an unusual illness, I started a business as a commercial flower grower which I had thought about many times before and always thought it was frivolous and unrealistic. Recently, I discovered the asteroid Flora sits on my N.Node!

Peakachoo: I have come to the same view of the NNode.

Humanitarian: Isn't possible that both Saturn and the Nodes offer some info about karmic limitations.?

 

[John Thompson]

Saturn is a planet of reality, and yet it also sits on a precipice. Saturn used wisely looks back into the past, learns from those experiences and then plans/ projects that which has been learnt into the future. Whether this relates to 'karma' is conjectural in many respects.
In medieval texts the south node was often given a saturnian connotation [the past], with the north node pertaining to the future.
For me, the nodes also incorporate the balance of the Moon/Saturn polarity.

 

[John Thompson]

Everyone,
Thanks for the all the responses.

Chevy D- that is an interesting concept about the ruler sometimes being stronger than the NN. Would you say my NN placement is stronger than my MC ruler? My NN sextiles my Sun and Chiron, the Sun is chart ruler since I am Leo rising; but my MC ruler, Venus is angular and at 15 of a fixed sign. I can post my chart if you wish. It feels that they are about the same in their hold on me, I desire both. I have had a much easier time achieving my Sun's ambitions. Curiously , after being unable to work in the profession I was trained for due to an unusual illness, I started a business as a commercial flower grower which I had thought about many times before and always thought it was frivolous and unrealistic. Recently, I discovered the asteroid Flora sits on my N.Node!

Peakachoo: I have come to the same view of the NNode.

Humanitarian: Isn't possible that both Saturn and the Nodes offer some info about karmic limitations.?

Hi
It's very interesting that you mention Venus being the MC ruler, angular and at 15 of a fixed sign. Any planet at 15 degrees of a fixed sign is considered to be at an Avatar degree. In Hinduism, an avatar is 'a manifestation of Deity, or released soul in bodily form on earth; an incarnate divine teacher'. This designation stems from the ancient use of antiscia. Any planet at 15 of a fixed sign sheds its antiscion at 15 degrees of another fixed sign, and is aligned to the cardinal axis.

 

[thelivingsky]

Hi
It's very interesting that you mention Venus being the MC ruler, angular and at 15 of a fixed sign. Any planet at 15 degrees of a fixed sign is considered to be at an Avatar degree. In Hinduism, an avatar is 'a manifestation of Deity, or released soul in bodily form on earth; an incarnate divine teacher'. This designation stems from the ancient use of antiscia. Any planet at 15 of a fixed sign sheds its antiscion at 15 degrees of another fixed sign, and is aligned to the cardinal axis.

Thank you, John
I am aware that 15 of fixed signs has this designation. My ascendant is also at 15 Leo - actually 14.10. but the Venus is 15.00 in Scorpio

 

[waybread]

I've done well with understanding the NN as where your growth lies. It may be well out of your comfort zone. The south node shows your comfort zone, even something you've mastered. But if you stay in SN territory, you tend to stagnate.

The MC shows your calling or vocation in life, if you have one.

The sun shows who you must be or become in order to be authentically yourself.

One thing I don't recommend is using the moon's nodes for past lives information. Books on the nodes as past lives are speculative, and at least one popular one is historically inaccurate, if not impossible.

We've got our work cut out for us in doing a decent job of this life.

 

[waybread]

.... I started a business as a commercial flower grower which I had thought about many times before and always thought it was frivolous and unrealistic. Recently, I discovered the asteroid Flora sits on my N.Node!....

Amazing. I initially responded just to your OP, then went back and read the rest of the posts.

I just posted that the NN shows where one's growth lies. No pun intended.

Asteroids are a real mixture of the meaningful and irrelevant; but when they work, it can be really uncanny.

 

[Claire19]

A question for experienced astrologers: Is N. Node our life purpose? Is it our Soul purpose? Are these the same?

Isn't the Sun and the Ascendant ruler more descriptive of our purpose?

Sometimes I think the N.Node is a task or skill or lesson we are being asked to learn in this lifetime for the purpose of helping us reach our potential, but that potential is more about the rest of the chart. Sometimes I think the entire chart describes our life purpose, at least as far as our participation on the material plane here in "earth school."

What happens if someone has Sun or Moon or both, or their ruler on their South Node. Does this mean they will need to spend their life denying, fighting, working against these influences? Fighting there basic fundamental nature?

Any thoughts?

I agree that the Sun and Moon are very important along with the north node which is often overlooked or not recognised as significant when indeed it is.... I use only small orbs for aspects to the nodes. not more than 4-5 degrees. A planet conjunct will give a stronger sense of purpose and sense of mission. I have Uranus conjunct North Node and am an astrologer and for over 35 years now...It is my purpose mainly for being on Earth... THe south node placements show where we have come from and what is familiar but we need to go to polar opposite to round out our experience. If Sun and Moon are on South Node that is just your parents are from the past. This is common to come in with a soul group but can be different roles. The house position is of major focus. Some people never find their nodal purpose I would suggest, especially if it is challenged or not aspected.

 

[ChevyD]

Everyone,
Thanks for the all the responses.

Chevy D- that is an interesting concept about the ruler sometimes being stronger than the NN. Would you say my NN placement is stronger than my MC ruler? My NN sextiles my Sun and Chiron, the Sun is chart ruler since I am Leo rising; but my MC ruler, Venus is angular and at 15 of a fixed sign. I can post my chart if you wish. It feels that they are about the same in their hold on me, I desire both. I have had a much easier time achieving my Sun's ambitions. Curiously , after being unable to work in the profession I was trained for due to an unusual illness, I started a business as a commercial flower grower which I had thought about many times before and always thought it was frivolous and unrealistic. Recently, I discovered the asteroid Flora sits on my N.Node!

Peakachoo: I have come to the same view of the NNode.

Humanitarian: Isn't possible that both Saturn and the Nodes offer some info about karmic limitations.?

From your description I would say your NN is stronger than your MC ruler. MC ruler at 15deg fixed sign is not a strong enough pull on its own in my experience, even if its angular. I am basing this just from your description lol. There will still be influences of your MC ruler of course but it may not be the driving force. You say you had easier time achieving your Sun's ambition, which has good aspect to NN. Looking deeper you find the asteroid on NN. I have had mixed results with asteroids, sometimes they work beautifully. Flora also happens to algin with the MC sign. The themes of the MC are there through the asteroid but the ambition comes from the NN.

 

[ozymandes]

the souls purpose is the planet with the highest degree in the birth chart. the planet is called: Atmakaraka.

 

[Edrek]

the souls purpose is the planet with the highest degree in the birth chart. the planet is called: Atmakaraka.

I don't think I understand what this means. Is "Atmakaraka" (I recognize this from Jyotish astrology) just the designation (not the name) of what "Western" astrologers would call "most elevated planet" in the chart? For example, if a person had Saturn in the 9th or 10th House, and there was no other planet that high in the chart, would Saturn be the atmakarata?

Back to the OP's question: My experience with NN/SN has been one that not everyone would accept, but I have found it to be very real and very accurate for me. For me NN/SN is all about an urgent karmic lesson that one has chosen to learn in this life. (It is not your main purpose in life, but it may be something your soul sees as a serious flaw that must be corrected ASAP. I have a Virgo SN conjunct Saturn in the 8th House and of course my NN is in my 2nd, and conjunct a stellium of Pisces planets.

This is where it may get too weird for some, so feel free to step off the train at this stop.

From childhood, I have always remembered my last past life vividly, even before I knew anything about astrology. And in that life I was a spoiled noble who lived well, spending money I had never had to earn - mostly copious inheritance, lavish gifts for favors which my title and position allowed me to grant, living rent-free in country mansions that belonged to others (as one type of lavish gift). I was also hypercritical, often very coldly, carelessly breaking hearts. Does this not sound like 8th House and bad Virgo?

In my present life, I received NO financial help from my parents (even for university) and NO inheritance from them either - they gave their entire estates to my step-families. I was never awarded for any good deeds or achievements with anything but kind words or a medal, and I was a victim of abusive criticism and mockery from childhood throughout my life. I was never taught how to handle money, was trepidacious about it, and though I earned enough by working very hard, I made unfortunate investments that caused me considerable and unpredictable loss. I have been close to financial disaster a number of times. Does this not sound like a correct karmic lesson for the spoiled, rich, coldhearted noble?

I became suicidal from my financial losses (I was financially "underwater" - owed twice as much as my entire net worth at one point through no fault of my own - long story), as well as from my loveless life of constant criticism. But I was blessed with individuals who appeared in my life and taught me more and more about karma just at the right moments in my life, and my suicidal thoughts changed to a glorious insight into my mission. I was cleansing myself of the evils of my past life by learning priceless lessons of empathy. I now have acute empathy for the poor and am extremely careful not to injure anyone's self-esteem or confidence. I was moving from my SN to my NN.

Admittedly, there have been numerous relapses that backfired on me and put me back in self-loathing and financial distress, but now I always know how to "get back on the path", to self-correct, to resensitize myself, to head toward my Pisces NN.

As if a perfect setup, my NN is the exact apex of a perfect YOD with Neptune sextile Pluto. As Tracy Marks describes it so well, when the two inconjuncts (150°) from the sextiled planets are powerfully activated by transit and/or progression, the apex is "awakened". And my apex is a Pisces NN in the 2nd conjunct Jupiter, Venus, and Mars (my own talents, my own money, my own core values, my own work). To me, this Yod has been a blessing - a perfect setup in understanding what the nodes mean. I had been such a "hard-headed a**h*l*", I needed more funneled guidance to my NN. (A Yod configuration looks like a funnel in the chart.)

So to me, the NN is the karmic lesson that is most urgent for you to learn, though it may not be your main purpose in this life. My main purpose in this life was to be an excellent teacher (that was perfectly determined by my Mercury, Sun, Moon, and Neptune placements - a whole other story) - and from all the feedback and rewards for my 30+ years of teaching, I believe I succeeded well in my main purpose, which may well continue next lifetime - there's always more that can be gained pursuing a great purpose.

And meanwhile, I learned to rely on myself, believe in my own talents, earn my own way in life, be very generous to and understanding of those less fortunate, be very sensitive to others' feelings and self-esteem, and never criticize what you don't understand or have never experienced.

 

[waybread]

I wonder if the urgency of doing one's NN work depends to some extent on how it is aspected, or should I say, motivated.

My NN is in Aries in the 8th house. Normally I didn't think too much about it: it is decently aspected and didn't give me much trouble. However, at a point where I recognized a major and difficult transit (Pluto square) and progression (Mars conjunction) to my NN coming its way, I decided to take it more seriously.

I'm a great believer in choice-centered astrology. We cannot choose many things in life. But where we have some latitude, it helps to consider that each planet, sign, and house has multiple interpretations that are still consistent with its core meanings. Then we get to choose empowering vs. disempowering interpretations.

The 8th is the traditional house of death. I volunteered for our local hospice society. At the patient's or family's request, volunteers visit with people who are close to the end of life. They may or may not be palliating, but sometimes we spell their care-givers, or simply spend time with people in care facilities. I think I'm appreciated, but I get back a lot from them.

Meanwhile, there's that lovely saying by Stephen Grellet:
"I shall pass through this world but once. Any good, therefore, that I can do or any kindness I can show to any human being, let me do it now. Let me not defer it or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again."

Of course, there is such a thing as tough love (which teachers understand when they have to fail a student to be fair to the rest of the class, let alone explaining Darwin's theory of natural selection to unbelievers ) and nobody's perfect.

(Ignore the virtue signaling here, please. It's a bad habit.)

 

[thelivingsky]

I don't think I understand what this means. Is "Atmakaraka" (I recognize this from Jyotish astrology) just the designation (not the name) of what "Western" astrologers would call "most elevated planet" in the chart? For example, if a person had Saturn in the 9th or 10th House, and there was no other planet that high in the chart, would Saturn be the atmakarata?

Back to the OP's question: My experience with NN/SN has been one that not everyone would accept, but I have found it to be very real and very accurate for me. For me NN/SN is all about an urgent karmic lesson that one has chosen to learn in this life. (It is not your main purpose in life, but it may be something your soul sees as a serious flaw that must be corrected ASAP. I have a Virgo SN conjunct Saturn in the 8th House and of course my NN is in my 2nd, and conjunct a stellium of Pisces planets.

This is where it may get too weird for some, so feel free to step off the train at this stop.

From childhood, I have always remembered my last past life vividly, even before I knew anything about astrology. And in that life I was a spoiled noble who lived well, spending money I had never had to earn - mostly copious inheritance, lavish gifts for favors which my title and position allowed me to grant, living rent-free in country mansions that belonged to others (as one type of lavish gift). I was also hypercritical, often very coldly, carelessly breaking hearts. Does this not sound like 8th House and bad Virgo?

In my present life, I received NO financial help from my parents (even for university) and NO inheritance from them either - they gave their entire estates to my step-families. I was never awarded for any good deeds or achievements with anything but kind words or a medal, and I was a victim of abusive criticism and mockery from childhood throughout my life. I was never taught how to handle money, was trepidacious about it, and though I earned enough by working very hard, I made unfortunate investments that caused me considerable and unpredictable loss. I have been close to financial disaster a number of times. Does this not sound like a correct karmic lesson for the spoiled, rich, coldhearted noble?

I became suicidal from my financial losses (I was financially "underwater" - owed twice as much as my entire net worth at one point through no fault of my own - long story), as well as from my loveless life of constant criticism. But I was blessed with individuals who appeared in my life and taught me more and more about reincarnation and karma just at the right moments in my life, and my suicidal thoughts changed to a glorious insight into my mission. I was cleansing myself of the evils of my past life by learning priceless lessons of empathy. I now have acute empathy for the poor and am extremely careful not to injure anyone's self-esteem or confidence. I was moving from my SN to my NN.

Admittedly, there have been numerous relapses that backfired on me and put me back in self-loathing and financial distress, but now I always know how to "get back on the path", to self-correct, to resensitize myself, to head toward my Pisces NN.

As if a perfect setup, my NN is the exact apex of a perfect YOD with Neptune sextile Pluto. As Tracy Marks describes it so well, when the two sesquiquadrates from the sextiled planets are powerfully activated by transit and/or progression, the apex is "awakened". And my apex is a Pisces NN in the 2nd conjunct Jupiter, Venus, and Mars (my own talents, my own money, my own core values, my own work). To me, this Yod has been a blessing - a perfect setup in understanding what the nodes mean. I had been such a "hard-headed a**h*l*", I needed more funneled guidance to my NN. (A Yod configuration looks like a funnel in the chart.)

So to me, the NN is the karmic lesson that is most urgent for you to learn, though it may not be your main purpose in this life. My main purpose in this life was to be an excellent teacher (that was perfectly determined by my Mercury, Sun, Moon, and Neptune placements - a whole other story) - and from all the feedback and rewards for my 30+ years of teaching, I believe I succeeded well in my main purpose, which may well continue next lifetime - there's always more that can be gained pursuing a great purpose.

And meanwhile, I learned to rely on myself, believe in my own talents, earn my own way in life, be very generous to and understanding of those less fortunate, be very sensitive to others' feelings and self-esteem, and never criticize what you don't understand or have never experienced.

Edrek, Yes, I agree. This is the view on NN that I have come to after 55 years studying astrology. One's purpose is more indicated by the Sun and chart rulers, but ones' ability to achieve that purpose is very dependent on mastering the NN challenges. My NN is in H8. Just as H2 is what the body needs to survive and thrive, H8 is what our close relationships need to survive and thrive. And that can be summed up in the word "trust." That is why H8 rules business contracts and mortgages because these are instruments we use to create and maintain trust in relationships. I think this is a very important aspect of H8 that is overlooked and it is a logical outgrowth or next step from H7. In H8 we encounter all the "fruits" the relationship which include conflicts, fear of loss and betrayal, triggering of our buttons, activation of primal desires and drives etc. And of course, inheritances and the other's money. For me I had to learn relationship skills, boundary setting, and had to do deep work around my own inability to trust and inability to set appropriate boundaries in my partnerships. H8 is after all the house that corresponds to the 8th sign of Scorpio and so is a water house having to do primarily with emotions.

 

[ShannaUK]

Can we say the North Node is the pathway to unlock our life purpose ? It makes sense, I have no clue about my life purpose but I know how critical it is to follow my North Node.