USA Pluto's Natal Return, July 16, 2024, Sidereal Precession Adjusted

[piercethevale]

Greetings. I recently made a half a dozen posts in the Astrological Parts sub forum about this. I also have an old thread somewhere about this very "return" but I don't know where it was, that is to say I don't remember what forum I posted it in nor what the title of that thread was given... besides this thread is particulary about the second natal return, in retrograde, that will occur this July 16th, 2024. This is all based on the "Zero Hour" natal chart for the USA, i.e. 12:00:01 A.M. July 4, 1776 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. This chart has proven itself to me without the least of any doubt. The Sabiian Symbols, which I use consistently in all astrological analyses, and if you review an old thread of mine on the matter, titled, "The Birth Chart of the USA", you'll come to understand why.
So then, what I'm going to do here, to initiate this thread, is copy and paste the half dozen, or so, posts I made the last couple of days about this natal return of Pluto, in retrograde... as I have found, so far, that it is most often the retrograde conjunctions that have the most pronounced, the most noticable effect. Please try to bear with me as to the various number of speculations as to the true rate of Sidereal Precession in the follow. As I noted I have done a very in depth study previously of this rate of precession but do not presently have my notes available to me. That the greatest extreme in difference amounts to a little under 9 hours in difference as to when the natal return actually will occur makes little difference to the significance of the event and little difference, if any, to the analysis of the outcome of the event... at least not to me, that is.
Post #1 [copied and pasted... as follows...]
An update that is essential. That is the amount of the Sidereal secession since the birth of the USA, which should be added to all natal positions in order to accomadate, what will be by the end of today, April 20, [Happy 420, BTW] 2024, 90,506 days since. As I simplified things a bit, mathmatically ... not wanting to get into the controversy of the exact timing of the Ahimsa, the Tropical to Sidereal relative movement of one full degree being based on the proposed endurace of one great yuga being 25, 800 years, exactly, and that amounts to, apprx., one degree every 26,176.25 days That amounts to one second of a degree in difference every 7.271180555...6 days.
It all adds up to a difference, by the end of this day, ECST, of 3 degrees 27 minutes and 27.22220 seconds, or 03* 27' 27..22220", that is the amount to add to all natal positions of the Astrological Parts derived from this particular natal chart.

I had to recalculate all the necessary as I'm still in Reno, without my papers, my notebooks, my books and the loss of some atmosphere of inspiration. These todays' figures might even be the same as those that I had been using and espousing before? But I think they are just slightly different. As it takes over seven days for the sidereal to move at least one second of a degree whether it be a month or two more, or less, amounting to no more than about 8.25 seconds of a degree. Then figure on adding four seconds every 29.0847222...3 days. That is to say on May 20th at 12 minutes and 13 seconds, i.e. 12:12:13 A.M. on May 20, 2024 ECST, add four more seconds to the figure I gave above.
My interest in this mater today stems from my realization how close the second return of Pluto to its natal position, Sidereal procession adj., in retrograde this July 16th. I'm curious as to any planetary stimulation to the natal Parts at that upcoming time.
Here's the event chart, although I may have already posted it before, twice won't hurt.

LATE EDIT: Going by what I give for the actual point of natal return for that day in this chart cast some years ago, The ratio I've used in this last post to apprx. the rate of the Sidereal secession would then produce one more second of a degee. I Will refer to the older estimation to be the more accurate, but a difference that amounts to just a hair more than a second in degree difference over a period of almost 248 years.
EVEN LATER EDIT: Checking the current info that google offers about the rate of Sidereal precession, which is given at every 25,772 years [which is surely an approximation but likely with a half a year more or less] that produces a rate of + 0.1375292488419846" of a degree per day, which in turn then gives a Sidereal precession adjusted position for the USA's natal Pluto of plus 3* 27' 52.586", a difference of, just over, 08" of a degree. But not to sweat it much, Pluto will conj. that exact point [01* 01' 48"] at apprx 7:10 A.M. the same day. i.e July 16, 2024, just about an hour earlier.

It's the retrograde returns I pay the most attention to. as that is what has proven itself to me to be the more interesting conjunctions of return when they do happen.

LATEST EDIT: THE FIGURES I GIVE ABOVE CONCERNING A RATE OF PRECESSION OF 360 DEGREES EVERY 25,772 YEARS ARE WRONG AND THUS SO IS THE CHART IMMEDIATELY BELOW. PLEASE SEE POST #18 FOR THE CORRECT FIGURES FOR THAT RATE OF PRECESSION AND THE RESULTANT CHART. I APOLGIZE FOR MY ERROR.

LATE EDIT: OR AS EARLY AS... DEPENDING ON THE TRUE RATE OF THE SIDEREALPRECESSION... BUT DEFINITELY ON JULY 16, 2024...

 

[piercethevale]

I'm very much interested when Uranus next conjuncts the USA's Sidereal precession adjusted, natal position and its natal Part of Destiny, which will occur around the beginning of the third week of June in 2028, after Uranus will have made its own natal return the year before, its third. The first occurred in 1860 just mere days before the outbreak of the Civil War. Uranus will conj. the Tropical Zodiacal position almost exactly the year before.
I find the Saban Symbol for the USA's Part of Destiny to be so, very, "Right On"
[ibid.]
"GEMINI 8°: AROUSED STRIKERS SURROUND A FACTORY.

KEYNOTE: The disruptive power of the ambitious mind upon the organic wholeness of human relationship.

We are dealing in this sequence of symbols with man's discovery of the new powers residing in his special contribution to the total organism of this planet Earth — his consciousness and aggressive mind. The first stage (Phase 66) dealt with oil, the typical form of energy which the modern mind has made available. (These symbols were revealed before atomic energy was even thought of as a practical possibility.) Now we see in this new symbol a pictorial indication of what the use of this intellect-generated energy inevitably leads to: industrial unrest and violence. As man manages to rape the earth in order to demonstrate his power and intensify his pleasures and his sense of proud mastery, conflicts and disruptive processes are inevitably initiated.

The arousal is presented to us here in its collective social form because we have reached the emotional-cultural level. The type of power generated by the analytical intellectual faculties is essentially disruptive; it is based on the destruction of matter, and invites egocentric hoarding and spoliation — and, in general, privileges of one kind or another. This leads to a REVOLT AGAINST PRIVILEGES."

Right there in Dane's keywords, "REVOLT AGAINST PRIVLEGES", one finds, basically, the entire philosophical foundation of this nations origins... Uranus is the "Great Awakener"... Set your alarm clocks.

 

[piercethevale]

i deleted this post as it is irrelevant due to my speculation that it might be possible that the rate of precession could be exactly one degree every 71.5 years, which I realized is highly unlikely and only makes this thread more difficult to follow ...and, also, because my mathematical calculations were a bit "off" that day.

 

[piercethevale]

What I have found unnerving, although I've yet to do a thorough going over of all the potential planetary transits to the natal position of Astrological Parts, both Topical and that adjusted for the Sidereal precession that will occur over 90,592-3 days that will have transpired on the occasion of the second natal return of Pluto this year, is that Uranus, at 26* 22' will have made a conjunction to the natal Topical position of the Part of Innocence at 25* 06' 55" and the Part of Surety [my tentative, but with extreme prejudice, title for the astrological Part derived from the formula that is opposite that of the Part of Catastrophe, in that I feel that the opposite of a catastrophe is an event that goes assuredly, without a glitch, seamlessly,] is at 25* 14' 55" on July 10th and on the 14th. What is even more disturbing is that the Part of Innocence and the Part of Surety share the same degree and Sabian Symbol. Uranus will not conjunct the Sidereal precession adjusted point for either Part until the second week of June, next year, in 2025. That will be around apprx 28* 35' to 47'.
[ibid.]
"TAURUS 26°: A SPANISH GALLANT SERENADES HIS BELOVED.
KEYNOTE: The ritualization of individual desires.
At this level we see the play of collective values as they affect the individual person and indeed confirm his individuality by giving it a solid basis in a tradition. The individual is still attached to these group-values; he 'belongs'. Nevertheless, this state is necessary for a safe and secure sense of differentiation within an enfolding whole. Music and the culturally acceptable rituals of love are cultural products, yet each person can use them for the spontaneous fulfillment of his very own desires.
This is the first symbol in the twelfth five-fold series. It reveals the individual human being making use of his personal status to find fulfillment and a sense of social identity. This is ROLE-PLAYING in its most enjoyable form."

This is disturbing because it reveals that We, as a nation, assuredly trying to play a role of which we have not the least idea of how to play it.
This rings so true of what Edgar Cayce said was the sin of the United States, i.e. that We don't live up to the motto we place so prominently on our currency, r.e. "IN GOD WE TRUST". We want to be that entity, but we, for the greater part of ourselves, are nothing more than poseurs
In addition Saturn will be conjunct the Tropical Zodiacs' natal position for the Part of Catastrophe, at 17* 44' 11' and the Part of Intelligence and Skill, at 17* 52' 11" which both are in the 18th degree of Pisces this May 14th and 16th, and again such an ironic paradox in having the same degree and same Sabian Symbol of what is our most skillful application of our intelligence is also that which brings us "catastrophe"... [ibid.]

"
PISCES 18°: IN A GIGANTIC TENT, VILLAGERS WITNESS A SPECTACULAR PERFORMANCE.

KEYNOTE: The collective appeal of a well-staged and exciting display of skill and/or oratory.

At first, Marc Jones interpreted the 'gigantic tent' as the locale for a revivalist's meeting; later he suggested a circus tent instead. In a sense, the basic meaning is the same whether it is the traditional performance of skilled clowns, acrobats or animal trainers, or that of a religious fundamentalist dramatizing an old religious imagery, what takes place is the use of personal achievement and conviction to bring a crowd to a state of enthusiasm sufficient to make it forget its boredom with everyday routine or its familiar sins of commission or omission.

At this third stage of the seventieth five-fold sequence, the individual person and the collectivity are brought together in a significant performance which subtly strengthens the communal spirit directly or indirectly. The implication of the symbol, whenever it is found operating, is that the time has come for the individual to dare to present himself and his works to his community for applause, or for the purpose of attracting a following. What is suggested is PUBLIC SELF-DRAMATIZATION."

Oh, my yes... don't our politicians give such grandiose speeches and campaign promises? Obama sure did...and failed to deliver a single one.
We are so good at giving grand promises... how about all those treaties our gov't made with the indigenous tribes? We broke every single one.
What about all the grandiose promises we make to other countries as well?

Saturn will get within one degree of an exact conjunction to the Sidereal precession adjusted position for those two Parts when it goes retrograde at 19* 26' on June 29th this year and will make those exact conjs. the first week of next March in 2025.

 

[piercethevale]

A Saturn conjunction to the Part of Catastrophe and the Part of Intelligence and Skill, Tropical Zodiac this mid May, then again in rx this August, and early next February, then there's Saturn conj. the Sidereal precession adjusted point come June and then again next March... and the Sabian Symbolism which can be so easily intepreted as both Skillful, intelligently conceived, oratory and public displays of other communicative means and also of great, catastrophically, hazardous speeches, campaign promises, campaign lies, and the basest type of mudslinging all occuring over the last four months of the campaigns and through the rest of theyear and into the first month of the new, or same old, admin taking office in February of 2025.
....WHEW..... I'm fatigued from just thinking about the likelihood of it all.
...and then from that point to Uranus' third return, the Tropical in 2027 with the Sidereal following in 2028, and Uranus conj. the natal Part of Destiny during that time... which has a Sabian Symbol of, in Dane's Keywords', "REVOLT AGAINST PRIVLEGES", AND GIVING CONSIDERATION TO EDGAR CAYCE'S PREDICTON OF ANOTHER CIVIL WAR IN THE USA NOT LONG AFTER THE TURN OF THE 21ST CENTURY THAT, IF IT SHOULD HAPPEN, WILL BE ONE OF ECONOMIC REASONS, I.E ''THE HAVE MORES" VS THE HAVE TOO LITTLES"... and that it was right after Uranus' first return that the Civil War of the 1860's occurred... WELL, YOU DO THE MATH.

 

[piercethevale]

All I'm saying as to the above is "KEEP THIS IN MIND" during the times of aspect given...and remember that old adage; "FOREWARNED IS FOREARMED."
Thanks for reading, ptv

 

[piercethevale]

Here's a copy of the USA natal chart that I use, and swear by. In the little over 12 years time that I've been consulting it, it hasn't let me down... and I've made three accurate, to the date, predictions using it. Those three predictions are posted, dated, and unedited and I gave the dates of December 14, 2012, to watch for a "False Flag" type event, and I gave this prediction in posts in September and October of 2012, along with a prediction that there would be an event that would shake up the nation on April 15, 2013 followed by an event that would impinge personal liberty three days later o April 18, 2013. Those are the dates whence the tragedy at Sandy Hook occurred, the bombing at the Boston Marathon, and followed by near martial law imposed on the City of Boston that April 18th. I've yet to make a prediction that hasn't come true... but then again, I haven't made a prediction in over 4 years now. I predicted that Donald Trump would not only get the Republican nomination but would go on to win the election. I made that prediction in early January 2016, when the "political pundits" were only giving him a 2% chance of even getting the party nomination.
I also predicted that he would be even more popular in the November election of 2020... and He was... why He didn't win the election is anyones' conspiracy theory... and I have one of my own regarding that cluster bomb. Yet the Trump predictions were from the use of his own natal chart. Those that I made in Sept. 2012 were from using this natal chart for the USA. I had only gotten into the natal astrology of nations earlier that year, in late March of 2012. I got involved in a thread title "The Great Debate...." something or other, concerning the "true" natal chart of the USA. I thought that a German author, whom I've forgotten the name of, might have been correct as to when He said the chart should be cast for... finding it so intriguing as it was 12 hours later than Dane Rudhyar had said that He believed the time should be recognized as. I did a live, cold, analysis, presenting the resultant chart and then attempting to prove the German correct going in "cold", that is not having reviewed a single bit of the data before doing so.
It was a disappointing endeavor... but no one elses theory had convinced me either. So I then asked, in that very same thread, if anyone had ever given the most obvious point from which to begin with... the one that makes the most sense, i.e the moment it became July 4, 1776 Philadelphia time...as Philadelphia is considered to be the location of the birth of the USA. BINGO....! I was stunned...and still am, by the Sabian Symbols that appeared for the chart axis, i.e. the "WHO", "WHERE-TO", "HOW", and "WHY" of its existence.
The Asc. in the 22nd degree of Aries is so SPOT ON, as to "WHO" the new nation was as seen by the rest of the world, and its own citizenry...
[ibid.]
"ARIES 22°: THE GATE TO THE GARDEN OF ALL FULFILLED DESIRES.
KEYNOTE: Abundance made possible by human togetherness and cooperation.
In contrast to the crude and cruel road to fame and power symbolized by the prizefighter, we now see a symbol of apparently wide-open and effortless fulfillment. Alone, a human being can barely survive in nature's great life drama; in organized groups men can in due time fulfill their desires. The abundant life is in theory open to all. At least this is the ideal, the great dream. This symbol can also be given an erotic meaning, referring to womanhood.
At the second stage of this series of symbols, the goal of happiness dominates the consciousness of cultural man, the more validly so the more modest his desires. Religious philosophies, like American New Thought, glorify this social feeling of abundance, glamorizing it into an avid COSMIC OPTIMISM and a cult of success."

"The Garden of all fulfilled desires" ... Oh my, YES....! ...and Dane's words; "in organized groups men can in due time fulfill their desires." ...so, spot on, as that is what the founding of this nation was in effect, oraganized groups of men seeking to fulfill their desires...their pursut of happiness.
A "Garden", a veritable Garden of Eden, in its own right.

So then, having [hopefully] given enough evidence here to win a few new converts, believers in the "Zero Hour" natal chart for the USA... here's a copy to study.

Notice the Mars - Pluto bi-quintile... that's a genuis aspect for transformation in action... int's in our astrological DNA as citizens of the nation.
I've a thread in the Astrological Parts sub-forum, it is a "sticky", in which I have listed a great many of the Astrological Parts derived from this chart. Here's the link: https://www.astrologyweekly.com/for...or-the-usa-zero-hour-july-4-1776-chart.54760/

 

[piercethevale]

The North Node for the natal chart above being so highly significant through the understanding of the Sabian Symbol for it, in the 7th degree of Leo [which happens to be the location of my S. Node. It is also the M.C. of fellow astrologer, forum member and enlightened Sabian Symbologist, Phoenix Venus, and it was also the N. Node of Suryakant, my late yogi buddy, emissary of Dhyanyogi Madhusudandas, whom gave me the understanding of my own yogic path, my alleged destiny, the understanding needed to give me the ability to recognize true natal charts, and the subsequent discoveries that followed... for example, that all Astrological Parts are very much relevant to the Sabian Symbolism found for that part in regard to the individual. I already knew it to some extent, at least so much that I had recognized the symbolic validity of a few of my own at the time, but I had done so little analysis of Astrological Parts up to that time. One discovery I made, although there may have been others before me but I never read nor heard mention of it, is that the Par of Fortune has little, if not nothing at all, to do with material riches. It's about the action, attitude, or mental precept by which to observe, that will produce the most fortuitous circumstances by which to succeed in completing ones' dharma... which is your Desc., also known as, that "WHERE-TO", given in your natal chart and revealed in its Sabian Symbol, in addition to the symbolism given as your Part of Destiny.
The Part of Fortune derived from the "Zero Hour" chart is at 25* 40' 42". That is the 26th degree of Scorpio... check it out... Talk about your "Manifest Destiny"... not to mention that the symbolism is also so very ironic...!
[ibid.

"SCORPIO 26°: AMERICAN INDIANS MAKING CAMP AFTER MOVING INTO A NEW TERRITORY.

KEYNOTE: The ability to adjust swiftly to a new situation by tuning in to its requirements.

He who lives in harmony with nature, moving on as new needs arise, finds himself intuitively at home everywhere. He does not make demands upon life, for he has identified himself with the great rhythms of the biosphere and he functions at peace with what they produce. This is the message of the American Indian culture which European invaders so wantonly and meaninglessly destroyed nearly everywhere. Western man has lost faith in life because he wants to dominate and enslave manifestations.

This represents the first stage of the forty-eighth five-fold sequence in the cycle of experience. It brings to us a message we greatly need today — the message of peaceful adaptation to nature, and through adaptation, of EFFICIENT FUNCTIONING in all life situations."

The White Man kept moving them West, and no sooner had the treaties been signed and they settled in, the White Man came along and said, "Get up, and move yourselves further on..."... repeatedly.
Sad, but necessitated by Cosmic Decree....!

As to the 7th degree of Leo, the location of the natal N. Node of the USA... it's destined point of spiritual evolution... that "precept" that it was created for in regards to its highest aspirations;
[ibid.]
LEO 7°: THE CONSTELLATIONS OF STARS SHINE BRILLIANTLY IN THE NIGHT SKY.

KEYNOTE: The power of basic spiritual values which refer to man's common humanity and to all enduring archetypes.

The experience of the night sky with its multitude of stars, especially brilliant in all the countries from which astrology came, is just as basic and archetypal an experience as that of sunrise, full moon and seasonal changes. Every people on this Earth has developed the concept of constellations, probably because of a need to find order in existence and to personalize everything that could be given a permanent form. Such personalizations can be called 'psychic projections', but the projection concept should be worked out both ways. If man projects his basic human nature upon the star-filled night sky, is it not just as logical to say that the universe projects its own forever-evolving patterns of order upon human nature? In either case we deal with archetypal factors which endure through a long series of generations.

This second stage symbol once more stands in perfect contrast to the preceding one. The nearly unchanging patterns of star groups are opposed to the sequence of ever-changing fashions and social ideals. The Keyword here is PERMANENCE. "

Yes sire...!
It was mainly the various persecuted religious sects, my own Quaker ancestors that came here in 1683, the Mennonites, the Anglicans, the Puritans, the Amish, etc. that came to America to escape the persecution both political and religious ...especially the Vatican.... that needed, that was so desperately needed, to establish their own concept of their archetypes, or moreover, to correct the template of the archetype so wrongfully altered, and, or, distorted by the powers that be, that were, in Europe.
"Not a Christian Nation" ...?
I beg to differ...
This nation was founded as to become the only true Christian nation... or, that is to at least become the birthplace of it

 

[piercethevale]

NOTE: April 26, 2024. I have edited this post due to slight errors in my math calculations and have replaced both the charts that were originally posted. It didn't change much other that the anticipated day that Uranus will conj. the, adjusted for Sidereal precession, USA's natal Part of Destiny will then be on the day before, that is on June 16, 2028 rather than on June 17th. I also deleted the last paragraph, and a highly speculative alternative chart for the natal return, based on a much different rate of precession, so as to not overly complicate this post. I apologize for my "sloppy work" earlier this week. All else is correct and remains pertinent to the thread.

Uranus will make a conjunction to the natal Part of Destiny on June 27, 2027, by the Tropical Zodiac... and to the Part, adjusted for the, nearly, 251 years of Sidereal precession that will have taken place by that time, on June 17, 2028
The natal Part of Destiny of the USA, by the Tropical Zodiac, is at 07* 33' 09"... and as for the Sidereal precession adjusted Part of Destiny, that will be located, on the date given above, at 10* 59' 44"
Uranus will makes its next natal return, adjusted for Sidereal precession, at 12* 24' 19", on July 12, 2028
Note: I already had a chart in my files at 'astrodense', for the precise Uranus return that I cast a few years ago...when I had all my research into the sidereal precession at hand...and fresh n mind... and it is different that the one that I cast today. Today, I once again, used the formula based on that one Great Yuga completes every 25,772 years. I was obviously using a figure of lesser time in length until this week. If I had those notebooks at hand I might still be using it, preferably? The older chart has a conjunction point that is 01' 57" less. As to either being correct or somewhere in between, the date of the Uranus natal return doesn't change, just the hour of the day.

Here's the chart for Uranus conj. the, Sidereal precession adjusted, USA's Part of Destiny:

And here's the chart for the, Sidereal adjusted, natal Return of Uranus, 25 days later... and notice that the N. Node is in the same degree for both charts... very significant Sabian Symbol, IMHO...!

 

[piercethevale]

I DELETED THIS POST AS IT WAS IN REFERENCE TO EARLIER EDITS, IN POSTS ABOVE, THAT I HAVE SINCE NOTED IN THE POSTS THEMSELVES.

Thanks for your patience and interest... ptv

 

[piercethevale]

I mentioned that the N. Node will be in the same degree of Cancer, the 24th both during the conjunction of Uranus with the, Sidereal precession adjusted, Part of Destiny and its own natal return in June and July of 2028, though the two events will be 25 days apart, as the average length of the Nodes remaining in any one degree is but eighteen and a half days... yet the N. Node will remain in the same degree from June 2nd until August 10th of that year... according to astrodiensts' "Swiss Ephemeris" which is available at their website in pdf. I have noticed in the past that what the pdf says and what their computer puts out in a chart can differ. Yet as they are currently estimating a stay n that same degree for apprx. 68 days, a day or two less, or more, doesn't detact from the fact that it will be a very prolonged conjunction of the Nodes to the 24th degree of Cancer and Capricorn.
The 24th degree giving the reason for what all the other astrological activity of the time is in effort to manifest... which also relates to the activities of the 'World Servers" at the time.
[ibid.]

"CANCER 24°: A WOMAN AND TWO MEN CASTAWAYS ON A SMALL ISLAND OF THE SOUTH SEAS.

KEYNOTE: The focalization of complex inner potentialities in harmonic and concrete relationships.

We are dealing here with a special phase of the process of integration. The woman and the two men represent the three-fold aspect of the human personality, particularly at this stage when one of these aspects — the emotional life (the woman) — is facing the possibility, if not the inevitability, of relating itself to both the spiritual and the mental. This confrontation occurs on a small island of the South Seas, and 'south' always refers symbolically to the strong and passionate impulses of human nature. Somehow the three-fold consciousness has to develop a harmonious and well-integrated modus vivendi (a specific way of life). If successful, this will release powerful energies and will lead to the next symbolic scene.

We have reached the fourth stage of the twenty-third five-fold sequence. As is most often the case, we are introduced here to a specific technique — or at least to a problem of technique — in living. The three human beings should become integrated; but the form this integration will take seems left open. It has to be a concrete type of integration in terms of the emotional and biological drives of human nature (an island of the South Seas) and the field of integration is 'small'. The key to the problem of relationship should be the realization of INTER-DEPENDENCE."

I ask you to consider the Sabian Symbol for the USA's natal Part of Destiny, that it is, in Dane's Keywords summation, a "REVOLT AGAINST PRIVLEGES", and to take in to account the prediction, the prophecy, that Edgar Cayce made over 80 years ago pertaining to a very likely chance of another "civil war" in the nation, between the "Haves More" and the "Haves Too Little", and then reflect on the symbolism for the 24th degree of Cancer.
A leveling will reduce the needs of the then resultant society would be based on true "INTER-DEPENDENCE", rather than this present course, planned and implemented by the elitists, i.e. the top 2% of the economic food chain, of the other 98% being wholly dependent on them... and We need to become HOLY INTER-DEPENDENT.

Seems to me that the Cosmos is laying it all out in a manner most suited for the spiritual evolution of all... It's always about the "BIG PICTURE", that is to say what's best for the common good and no one in particular.

 

[piercethevale]

Not to ignore the present Tropical Zodiacal degree that this natal return of Pluto is being conducted in, that is the second degree of Aquarius.
It has a most interesting Sabian Symbol...
[ibid.]
"AQUARIUS 2°: AN UNEXPECTED THUNDERSTORM.

KEYNOTE: The need to develop the inner security which will enable us to meet unexpected crises.

An interesting connection can be made between the symbols for Taurus 1° and 2° — 'A clear mountain stream' and 'An electrical storm'— and those for Aquarius 1° and 2°, two hundred and seventy degrees apart (a 'waning' square, in terms of a cycle of relationship such as the lunation cycle). In the first case we deal with energies or activities that can be related to the natural development of the individual. But here we are primarily concerned with social, collective processes and the function of the individual within them. The symbol itself — 'An unexpected thunderstorm' — could be given a very positive meaning in an arid environment, but the emphasis on 'unexpected' tends to accent the sudden and dangerous character of the event. Such a thunderstorm in a region of dry hills can cause a devastating flood. At any rate, it refers to an event for which one is not prepared — a menace to men's works.

Seen as a second stage symbol — thus in contrast to the preceding one — this scene stresses the fact that nature may reduce to impermanence the seemingly most permanent endeavors and constructive activities of men. Under a downpour of rain, adobe brick can return to mud. All human institutions and their achievements can be washed away, even in their day of great glory. 'Dust you were, dust you must become'. This is NATURE'S CHALLENGE."

 

[piercethevale]

Think about that Sabian Symbol and the fact that it will be Uranus, the "Planet of Sudden Change", the "Planet of Higher Awareness", aka "The Great Awakener", being that astrological force that is returning, that symbol, which represents the Divine precept, that particular degree releases, "
AN UNEXPECTED THUNDERSTORM.". If that ain't a "GREAT AWAKENER", then I don't know what is.

 

[piercethevale]

NOW, TAKE A LOOK AS TO WHERE THE PLANET PLUTO IS WHEN URANUS MAKES ITS NATAL RETURN, THAT IS IN THE 9TH DEGREE OF AQUARIUS. tHE 9TH DEGREE OF AQUARIUS HAS AS ITS SABIAN SYMBOL A SYMBOL OF "TRANSFORMATION"... and just by coincidence [yeah, right?] Pluto is the "PLANET OF TRANSFORMATION"... GOLLY, GEE, HOW SO PERFECTLY APPROPRIATE FOR THE [anticipated] SITUATION AT THAT TIME... don't ya think?
[ibid]
"AQUARIUS 9°: A FLAG IS SEEN TURNING INTO AN EAGLE.

KEYNOTE: The dynamic incorporation of new social values in individuals who exemplify the spiritual potential and greatest significance of these values.

This symbol nearly duplicates the one for Sagittarius 12°, but in this five-fold sequence it has a somewhat different meaning — especially since the last term of the mysterious transformation (i.e. the crowing of the eagle in chanticleer's fashion) is omitted. All that is implied here is the vitalization of a powerful symbol, its embodiment in a living reality, i.e. in a person able to fly in consciousness to the highest spiritual realm. The archetype is given living substance and wings. The Image has become a Power.

This fourth stage symbol, as usual, gives us a technical suggestion. To 'see' the new archetype, to perceive the new standard of value with one's mind is not enough. The seer must become the doer. The impersonal is dynamized and brought into focus. We have here the ACTING OUT of the vision."

 

[piercethevale]

Take a look at the Sabian Symbol for where Saturn will be on the occasion...the 10th degree of Taurus... and I think that it's the perfect Saturnian contribution to be of a benevolent influence of force... as Saturn is that which will impose it's will, it is the conduit of karmic due. Saturn is also known as "Chronos", i.e. the "Timekeeper", and just like the timekeeper of a company, a business or corporation, the Timekeeper is also the Paymaster, the one that hands out your wages, i.e. what you earned.
[ibid.]
"TAURUS 10°: A RED CROSS NURSE.

KEYNOTE: The compassionate linking of all men.

This symbol reveals the feeling of human cooperation at the stage of pure altruism and service to the social Whole. On that foundation of Christ love (agape, or true companionship), man can reach a still higher level of experience made possible by the refinement of the substance of his being, his consciousness and his will. This goes beyond imagination and faith in the future - beyond Christmas tree celebrations - for it implies going into the dark to bring life and love to the tormented and the deprived.

At this final stage of the five-fold sequence we see what is finally open as new potentiality to the 'widow before an open grave' — the closing symbol of the preceding sequence. Personal attachment in love to a husband or wife has changed level becoming a CONSECRATION TO HUMANITY."

"Remember Kids, when you're smashing the State, to keep a smile on your face and a song in your heart, and don't forget to build something beautiful in its place" Backwoods Bob, [Northern California's answer to Mr. Natural, a consummate eco-social activist Hippie cartoon character that appeared in a number of regional newsprints, circa 1969-75]

 

[piercethevale]

Neptune will be in the 9th degree of Aries at the time. Neptune, the Planet that is the higher octave of Venus, the planet that provides the vision, the imagery, the beautiful dream when operating unhindered, in a degree of the Zodiac that has a Sabian Symbol that is about "getting an overall and clear vision, an image, of the whole picture, "THE BIG PICTURE", and note Dane's "Keynote" phrase, "The development of an inner realization of organic wholeness." as that is also such a helpful, synchronistically appropriate precept for Neptune to be the distributing force.
[ibid.]
"ARIES 9°: A CRYSTAL GAZER.

KEYNOTE: The development of an inner realization of organic wholeness.

The crystal sphere symbolizes wholeness. Within the sphere images take form. These images may reveal future events, but more significantly they picture 'the situation as a whole' – the situation which the clairvoyant is meant to interpret. The nascent mental faculties operating through still dominant emotions (or collective cultural incentives) act as a centralizing and whole-making power. What the intelligence perceives in its concentration is the function of every inner impulse and outer events in the open field of a 'personality' still unclouded by egoism.

At this fourth stage of the five-fold sequence the new technique required for the development of individualized consciousness is revealed: CONCENTRATED ATTENTION."

 

[piercethevale]

Another possibility...as I realized that I HAD POSTED THE PRECESSION RATE i HAD SPENT SO MUCH TIME RESEARCHING AND THAT IS IN THE THREAD LISTING ALL THE PARTS DERIVED FOR THE USA NATAL CHAT, A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT RATE OF, PLUS, +, 0.1378471906455365" PER DAY. THAT MEANS THE RATE OF PRECESSION I HAD DETERMINED IS ONE DEGREE EVERY 71 YEARS, 183 DAYS AND 3 HOURS....and thus the natal return, sidereal precession adjusted comes to a difference of plus, +, 03* 31' 29" , and that places the event at 12* 24' 35", which occurs later the same day, at about 3:25 p.m.... only the Moon's position is noticeably affected.
Here's that chart...

I'LL RECALCULATE FOR THE PLUTO RETURN AND SEE WHAT THAT AMOUNTS TO...

 

[piercethevale]

I RECALCULATED FOR PLUTO USING THE RATE OF PRECESSION I HAD ALREADY POSTED IN THE THREAD FOR THE USA's NATAL PARTS, AND THE RESULT OF THAT RATE IS 32 DAYS AND 11 HOURS LESS IN LENGTH, OR EXACTLY 71.5 YEARS. FOR A TOTAL OF 25,740 YEARS. A DIFFERENCE OF 32 YEARS, AS TO THAT OF 25,772 YEARS, AND WHICH AMOUNTS TO THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO AS TO THE LENGTH OF TIME TO PRECESS ONE FULL DEGREE, A RATE OF 71.50 YEARS AS TO THAT OF 71.588... YEARS, [which is how many years for one degree of precession during a great yuga length of 25,772 years. 32 years in difference] AND THEN THAT BREAKS DOWN TO BETO BE A DAILY RATE OF PRECESSION OF 0.1378498298416163" TO 0.1376786675509547" DIFFERENCE.

THAT THIS MORE RECENTLY APPLIED ESTIMATION OF A GREAT YUGA THAT I'M USING, THAT OF 25,772 YEARS, AMOUNTS TO AN LATER DATE OF JULY 16TH, 2024 AT ABOUT EXACTLY 7:10 A.M., IT PRODUUCES A DIFFERENCE OF 2 DAYS, 9 HOURS AND 10 MINUTES LATER AS TO THE ESTIMATED TIME OF THE EVENT.

THE DIFFERENCE OF GREATEST NOTE BETWEEN THE JULY 16TH CHART AND THAT FOR JULY 13TH, I THINK, IS THAT ON THE EARLIER DATE THE N. NODE WILL BE IN THE NEXT DEGREE, THE 11TH OF ARIES, AND THAT DEGREE HAS A VERY DIFFERENT SABIAN SYMBOL THAN OF THAT FOR THE 10TH DEGREE... A DIFFERENCE IN THE SYMBOLISM THAT IS MOST SIGNIFICANT TO THE DATE OF THE EVENT... IN FACT IT IS MOST SIGNIFICANT TO THE ENTIRE YEAR.

AS I'VE ALWAYS SAID THAT THE N. NODE INDICATES SYMBOLICALLY WHAT ALL THE REST OF THE ASTROLOGICAL ACTIVITY IS WORKING IN CONTRIBUTION TO, I FIND THE SABIAN SYMBOL FOR THE N. NODE AT THE TIME OF THE PLUTO NATAL RETURN, IN RETROGRADE. EVENT TO BE MOST ESPECIALLY SIGNIFICANT DURING THIS HOTLY CONTEST ELECTION YEAR FOR THE PRESIDENCY. CHECK IT OUT...!
[ibid.]
"
"ARIES 11°: THE RULER OF A NATION.

KEYNOTE: The power resulting from the format integration of the collective desire for order.

At this stage of the cyclic process this symbol refers to the appearance of the (personal) ego as the central manifestation of a type of 'order' which transcends and seeks to rule the emotional and instinctual drives of the individual person. Actually the ruler at this social-political and mental level of integration is often the one who is being ruled by collective pressures. Nevertheless, a desire for a larger type of integration has now emerged. It is no longer biological-impulsive (Aries 1°) or emotional-personal (Aries 6°), but social-collective and institutional. At this ego level, laws and the restrictive power of a police force are dominant features. Psychologically speaking, this means that the integrative principle is the limited, more or less narrow 'I am' realization. It manifests itself as the personal ego exerting its will to control the reactions of the bio-psychic organism.

This is the first stage of the third five-fold sequence of the cyclic process. It indicates a CENTRALIZATION OF POWER at the level of a rigidly structured consciousness. "


i also realized that the math I had used in the first post for a span of 25,772 years was wrong...so disregard that first chart for the Pluto natal return altogether. MY EXCUSE IS THAT I WAS DOING THE MATH ON NAPKINS FROM A CAFE, THIS IS NOT MY FORMER WORK SPACE OF THE LAST 17 YEARS. I HOPE TO BE SETTLED SOMEWHERE MORE PERMANENTLY BY THE END OF SUMMER

Here's the chart using the 25,740 year precession rate

AND HERE IS THE CHART USING THE RATE OF 25,772 YEARS, WHICH I BELIEVE TO BE THE MORE ACCURATE, IN FACT THE MOST ACCURATE [GIVE OR TAKE 6 MONTHS, WHICH IS AN ALMOST NEGLIGABLE DIFFERENCE OVERALL, i.e. 00.24", or less than one quarter of a second of a degree, plus or minus to the Sidereal position for the natal return in rx at this time] NOTE THE DIFFERENCE AS TO THE DEGREE OF THE POSITION OF THE N. NODE. IT IS IN THE 10TH DEGREE OF ARIES.

 

[piercethevale]

Again, I apologize for the inaccuracies of my initial posts to this thread. I'm presently living "on the road" in a sense, due to my recently being evicted from my residence of the last 17 years. That is due to landlord greed and my lack of a "credit file".
So, while all my notebooks of, nearly, 40 years of research, along with the texts on astrology that I still use for reference and further research, are in storage over 120 miles away, I'm a bit "handicapped" presently.
Still, realizing that the rate of precession that I had posted in my thread on Astrological Parts, derived from the USA's natal chart , was an arbitrary and significantly inaccurate rate to utilize, this effort certainly has been beneficial in that it forced me to do further research to determine a more accurate estimation of the rate of Sidereal precession. The figure of 25,772 years seams to be one derived through modern observation and over an enough of a span of time to be able to produce a more accurate mathematical calculation. If there were no observational records to reference to, I would instinctively assume that the rate of precession to be one degree every 72 yeas. The reason being that the number, 72, has such profound implications in so many different matters of numerous subjects, astrology included. Just as I would also want to assume that the orbit of the Earth around the Sun takes 360 days... and I do have an inclination to believe that at one time, in a most distant past, it in fact did.

Thus I'm now of the opinion that the most accurate measure to use is that based on the 25,772 year cycle presently given... although I think most everyone of us would conclude that it is a "rounded figure" and thus it should be considered as being plus, or minus, as much as 6 months either way.
That an additional 6 months to the rate of 25,772 years will amount to a difference in the daily rate of precession of 0.1376786675509547" to then be regarded as 0.1376759965126861" and if one uses that figure to calculate the amount of degrees to add to the natal positions of the USA's chart then that is a difference of 0.6" of a degree, that is just a tad more than half of one second of one degree. Six months less to the precession rate of 25,772 years results in in about as much reduced. As Pluto in retrograde is moving at a rate of around 00* 00' 04" an hour, a difference of a half of a second of a degree is negligible.

...NOW TO GET DOWN TO THE NITTY GRITTY OF THIS UPCOMING EVENT.... ALL I CAN SAY... WELL, ACTUALLY I COULD SAY A LOT, BUT I'LL JUST KEEP IT TO "WOW"... THE VERY IDEA OF PLUTO, THE PLANET KNOWN AS THAT OF "DEATH & TRANSFORMATION" AT THE TIME OF ITS FIRST NATAL RETURN AND THE N. NODE OF THE MOON BEING IN A DEGREE OF THE ZODIAC SYMBOLIZED AS "THE RULER OF A NATION"... WOW.
CONSIDERING THE CONTROVERSY, LET ALONE THE EVIDENCE, OF THE PRESENT PHYSICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, AND THE YET, STILL UNRESOLVED, CONTROVERSY AS TO WHETHER THE ELECTION OF 2020 WAS HONESTLY CONDUCTED [OF WHICH I AM VERY, VERY, MUCH IN DOUBT OF.] THIS UPCOMING EVENT MAY JUST BE THE MOST INTERESTING ASTROLOGICAL EVENT TO WATCH THIS YEAR... AS TO SEE WHAT IT WILL ALL AMOUNT TO?

PLUTO CAME WITHIN A ONE DEGREE ORB OF CONJUNCTION TO THE NATAL RETURN ON JANUARY 21ST. IT MADE ITS FIRST NATAL RETURN ON FEBRUARY 23RD. IT WENT BEYOND A ONE DEGREE ORB ON APRIL 12-13TH, THEN GOES RETOGRADE ON MAY 2ND, BUT WILL RETURN TO WITHIN ONE DEGREE ON MAY 22-23RD. AFTER ITS SECOND CONJUNCTION IN JULY, PLUTO WILL AGAIN GO BEYOND A ONE DEGREE ORB ON SEPTEMBER 1ST. PLUTO BECOMES DIRECT AGAIN OCTOBER 11TH AND WILL BE WITHIN A ONE DEGREE ORB AGAIN NOVEMBER 20TH. IT MAKES ITS FINAL NATAL RETURN ON DECEMBER 30TH AND AT THAT TIME THE N. NODE WILL BE IN THE 3RD DEGREE OF ARIES FROM THE EVENING OF DECEMBER 14TH TO THE EVENING OF DECEMBER 25TH, CHRISTMAS DAY!

WHY DO I FIND THAT TO BE SO WORTHY OF AN EXCLAMATION MARK? BECAUSE THE 3RD DEGREE OF ARIES IS THE LOCATION OF DONALD TRUMP'S ASTROLOGICAL PART OF HIDDEN IDENTITY, AKA PART OF ORATION.
IT WAS MY VERY DISCOVERY OF THIS ASTROLOGICAL PART OF DONALD TRUMP'S, IN JANUARY OF 2016, THAT CAUSED ME TO PREDICT THAT NOT ONLY WOULD HE GET THE REPUBLICAN PARTY NOMINATION BUT, IN FACT, WOULD WIN THE ELECTION THAT NOVEMBER...WHICH HE DID.
IT IS BECAUSE OF THE SABIAN SYMBOL FOR THE 3RD DEGREE OF ARIES AND THAT ASTROLOGICAL PARTS ARE RELATIVE TO DEGREE [SABIAN] SYMBOLISM BEING FOR THAT REASON,.
CHECK IT OUT...
[ibid.]
"ARIES 3°: THE CAMEO PROFILE OF A MAN, SUGGESTING THE SHAPE OF HIS COUNTRY.
KEYNOTE: The sustaining power of the Whole, as the individual identifies themselves with It’s life."

CONSIDERING THAT IT TAKES THE NODES 18.5 YEARS TO MAKE THE ROUNDS OF THE ZODIAC, THE COINCIDENCE OF THE N. NODE BEING IN DEGREES PERTAINING TO SUCH DIVINE PRECEPTS, REVEALED BY THE SABIAN SYMBOLS, AT THE SAME TIME WHEN PLUTO IS IN CONJUNCTION WITH ITS POINT OF NATAL RETURN I FIND TO BE RATHER ASTONISHING!

 

[John Thompson]

I'm no expert with American charts, but I have had much success with the English/British charts. Within this, I must say that I do not use precession adjusted charts and am none the less impressed with your research. That said, when it comes to the three outer planets, we must take on board the dance that they do because of their relative orbits. Personally I use four inception charts for the UK. The first is the chart for the Coronation of Edgar on 11th May 0973 [OS] in Bath [chart for king as sole ruler of Britain]. At the time of the Norman invasion in 1066, Pluto had recently opposed its natal position and sat on the descendant @ 5 degrees tropical Pisces/Edgar descendant: At the formation of the United Kingdom in 1801, Pluto was returning to that of 1066/Edgar Descendant. Transit Neptune was coming to the conjunction of Sun/Mars[25 Taurus] of Edgar in 1066, with Uranus square 10th house Saturn. I also use the chart of the Glorious Revolution of 1689, indicating our constitutional monarchy. The Sun sat @ 5 Pisces and square the ASC/DESC axis and was conjunct Neptune: Uranus at this time was in Taurus and coming to the degrees mentioned earlier . When the United Kingdom of Great Britain came into existence in 1922, Pluto had returned to its position at the time of the Glorious Revolution. The chart of the Glorious Revolution was valid at American independence, but for me the Boston Tea Party was symbolic start of the whole ensuing process; note a grand trine of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto with Uranus on Edgars' MC [Sun/Mars], Pluto also semi-square Edgar ASC. Sorry this is so brief, but hope this can be useful in your research.
Uranus at 25 Taurus always sees major turning points for British monarchy. Meghan Markle has Uranus stationary and unaspected at 26 Scorpio; as far as British monarchy is concerned, she's a one woman wreaking machine LOL!