USA Pluto's Natal Return, July 16, 2024, Sidereal Precession Adjusted

[piercethevale]

I'm no expert with American charts, but I have had much success with the English/British charts. Within this, I must say that I do not use precession adjusted charts and am none the less impressed with your research. That said, when it comes to the three outer planets, we must take on board the dance that they do because of their relative orbits. Personally I use four inception charts for the UK. The first is the chart for the Coronation of Edgar on 11th May 0973 [OS] in Bath [chart for king as sole ruler of Britain]. At the time of the Norman invasion in 1066, Pluto had recently opposed its natal position and sat on the descendant @ 5 degrees tropical Pisces/Edgar descendant: At the formation of the United Kingdom in 1801, Pluto was returning to that of 1066/Edgar Descendant. Transit Neptune was coming to the conjunction of Sun/Mars[25 Taurus] of Edgar in 1066, with Uranus square 10th house Saturn. I also use the chart of the Glorious Revolution of 1689, indicating our constitutional monarchy. The Sun sat @ 5 Pisces and square the ASC/DESC axis and was conjunct Neptune: Uranus at this time was in Taurus and coming to the degrees mentioned earlier . When the United Kingdom of Great Britain came into existence in 1922, Pluto had returned to its position at the time of the Glorious Revolution. The chart of the Glorious Revolution was valid at American independence, but for me the Boston Tea Party was symbolic start of the whole ensuing process; note a grand trine of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto with Uranus on Edgars' MC [Sun/Mars], Pluto also semi-square Edgar ASC. Sorry this is so brief, but hope this can be useful in your research.
Uranus at 25 Taurus always sees major turning points for British monarchy. Meghan Markle has Uranus stationary and unaspected at 26 Scorpio; as far as British monarchy is concerned, she's a one woman wreaking machine LOL!

Charts of other nations, particularly the European, I find vexing. I'm of the opinion that their "births" are too difficult to determine and even if anyone of them that is presently recognized is in fact valid, I know too little about foreign history to even begin to trying to understand them. I've got my hands full with that of the United States, and I have a number of other astrological matters I'm in continuous research with.
I've made a number of posts pertaining to the USA's natal chart since March of 2012. What I've found for the time of our Civil War to be one of the most convincing of arguments for the "Zero Hour" chart to be the valid chart. The 1960's in the U.S. and what astrological effects were prevalent is also a good study.
I mentioned above about the Sabian Symbolgy for the USA's Asc. and how it is the "WHO" of ones' chart axis. I didn't bring up the Desc., the 'WHERE-TO", [or, as I sometimes prefer to say, the "WHOM-TO"] is in the 22nd degree of Libra [also the location of my Natal Neptune]. It has as its Sabian Symbol:
[ibid.]
"LIBRA 22°: A CHILD GIVING BIRDS A DRINK AT A FOUNTAIN.
KEYNOTE: The concern of simple souls for the welfare and happiness of less-evolved beings who thirst for life renewal.
The original statement of this symbol is far more significant than the later formulation, for what is expressed here is a reversal of the operation mentioned in the preceding symbol. Man, who has built the fountain — perhaps on arid land and through skillful work — gives the life-bestowing water to the thirsting birds. He does not go to the sea, but he brings the purified, drinkable water to the birds needing it. The connection between 'child' and 'birds' implies a spontaneous, naïve rapport at the spiritual level, a soul-touch at the level of pure feelings

. At this second stage of the five-fold process the contrast with the first takes on a suggestive aspect. What you received from the Infinite, you can give to the finite beings that thirst for it. Man does not need to destroy nature's wilderness through greed and carelessness; he can transform this wilderness into a garden, whose singing fountains will attract birds. We can use here Marc Jones's
Keyword for this degree: SOLICITUDE."

We were meant to become a place where one could find true spiritual nourishment, a land to allow ones own spiritual nature to become manifest

ON OCTOBER 9, 1965, URANUS AND PLUTO WERE CONJUNCT AT 17* 09' 57" and the USA's natal Part of War [Asc. + Mars - Pluto] adjusted for the Sidereal precession up to that time was at 17* 20' 28" and We were just beginning to wage large scale war on the Vietnamese.
The N.Node at that time was in the 6th degree of Gemini.
[ibid.]
"GEMINI 6°: WORKMEN DRILLING FOR OIL.
KEYNOTE: The avidity for that knowledge which ensures wealth and power."
..and Dane's Keyword: "AMBITION."

I think that it can also be understood as an avidity for just wealth and power... at least in its lowest form... although there were rumors of a belief that the Bay of Saigon sat over a huge oil field ...hmmm...?

May God bless you in your astrological endeavors... thanks for the support.

 

[piercethevale]

I'm no expert with American charts, but I have had much success with the English/British charts. Within this, I must say that I do not use precession adjusted charts and am none the less impressed with your research. That said, when it comes to the three outer planets, we must take on board the dance that they do because of their relative orbits. Personally I use four inception charts for the UK. The first is the chart for the Coronation of Edgar on 11th May 0973 [OS] in Bath [chart for king as sole ruler of Britain]. At the time of the Norman invasion in 1066, Pluto had recently opposed its natal position and sat on the descendant @ 5 degrees tropical Pisces/Edgar descendant: At the formation of the United Kingdom in 1801, Pluto was returning to that of 1066/Edgar Descendant. Transit Neptune was coming to the conjunction of Sun/Mars[25 Taurus] of Edgar in 1066, with Uranus square 10th house Saturn. I also use the chart of the Glorious Revolution of 1689, indicating our constitutional monarchy. The Sun sat @ 5 Pisces and square the ASC/DESC axis and was conjunct Neptune: Uranus at this time was in Taurus and coming to the degrees mentioned earlier . When the United Kingdom of Great Britain came into existence in 1922, Pluto had returned to its position at the time of the Glorious Revolution. The chart of the Glorious Revolution was valid at American independence, but for me the Boston Tea Party was symbolic start of the whole ensuing process; note a grand trine of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto with Uranus on Edgars' MC [Sun/Mars], Pluto also semi-square Edgar ASC. Sorry this is so brief, but hope this can be useful in your research.
Uranus at 25 Taurus always sees major turning points for British monarchy. Meghan Markle has Uranus stationary and unaspected at 26 Scorpio; as far as British monarchy is concerned, she's a one woman wreaking machine LOL!

I DO WANT TO ADD THAT i BELIEVE TROPICAL CONJUNCTIONS TO BE VALID IN REGARDING THAT THE INFLUENCE IN ASPECT IS IN THE SAME SABIAN SYMBOL... AND WHEN I CONSULT PROGESSED NATAL CHARTS I REFER TO TROPICAL INFLUENCES UPON THE NATAL... OR THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THAT THE SIDEREAL ADJUSMENT SHOULD THEN ONLY BE AS MUCH AS THE PROGRESSED CHART IS. THAT IS TO SAY ADVANCED ONLY AS SO MANY DAYS AS THE PROGESSED CHART IS. BY THAT TECHNIQUE THE SIDREAL DIFFERECE WOULD STILL BE ONLY AS MUCH AS + 00* 00' 34" AS OF THIS JULY 4TH.

 

[piercethevale]

I HAD TO MAKE, YET, STILL ANOTHER CORRECTION TO A PEVIOUS POST, #18. I HAD ONLY POSTED A CHART FOR THE LESS ACCURATE RATE OF PRECESSION, THAT BASED ON A 25,740 YEAR CYCLE. I ALSO HAD TO EDIT THE TEXT AS THERE WAS SOME CONFUSION THERE TOO.
WHEN WORKING WITH RETROGRADE PLANETS AND THE NODES, WHICH ARE ALMOST ALWAYS RETROGRADE, WHEREAS ADDING ADDITIONAL DAYS AMOUNTS TO SUBRACTING SECONDS FROM DEGREES... IT ALL GETS A BIT CONFUSING.
IT'S ALL STRAIGHTENED OUT NOW. ALL PAST POSTS HAVE BEEN EDITED AND CORRECTED.
JUST TO BE SURE EVERYONE IS CLEAR ON THIS, PLUTO'S NATAL RETURN, IN RETROGRADE, THIS YEAR, 2024, IT IS ON JULY 16 AT 7:10 A.M.
...AND HERE'S A COPY OF THE CHART AGAIN.

 

[piercethevale]

So, the N. Node will be in the previous degree from that as to the one that has the symbolism of "A LEADER OF A NATION" when Pluto makes a precise conjunction to its natal position in retrograde. Yet, I feel that there is relative significance being that it is the symbolism for the N. Node up to just hours before the conjunction, the full return in retrograde when the N. Node will be in, the 10th degree of Aries. That is also where the N. Node happened to be on the night I was the invited guest on the Rick Barber radio program, December 22, 2005. That is when I introduced the chart I had recently produced, 13 months prior, for the nativity of Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth, using the date the late 20th century American clairvoyant, Edgar Cayce, gave and the time of day, I hypothesized, when Pluto was conjunct the Asc., i.e April 2, 03 A.D. Gregorian at 5:23 p.m.. in the location of modern Bethlehem. I also introduced the Sabian Symbols to a great many listeners that previously knew nothing of them, and most didn't even know of their existence.
That mostly resulted in Pluto getting demoted 7 months later.

[ibid.]
"ARIES 10°: A TEACHER GIVES NEW SYMBOLIC FORMS TO TRADITIONAL IMAGES."

...yeah, that was my "15 minutes" event, that lasted an hour, on A.M. station KOA, Denver, Colorado that night.
Coincidence... or Cosmically synchronistic?
I read it as Cosmic validation... an astrological validation...That is to say; I was meant to do that at that time.
Yes, I do believe "IT WORKS" like that.

SO...
What we have here is an almost year long "WATCH PARTY" that began back in the third week of last January, when Pluto got within a one degree orb of conjunction to its natal return, adjusted for the Sidereal precession, and until the first week of January, the following year, when it will move beyond a one degree orb.
The retrograde event being that which I think might be the most interesting of the three..

 

[piercethevale]

Okay, now it's time for a rant about astrodienst and their manipulation of astrological data the last 11 years.
They have moved Pluto 11" ahead in the USA's natal chart as to where it was back in 2012.
They had pulled the same kind of baloney with the natal chart I produced for Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth on November 7, 2004. That chart remained consistently the same up to at least, June 19, 2013, as that is the most recent chart I have in my fles that still has the original data.
The original data for Pluto on April 2, 03 Gregorian calendar at 5:23 p.m. is at 00* 58' 51", that is the 1st degree of Libra and tantamount to the understandng of the man, and whom He truly was.

Sometime, not long after June of 2013 astrodienst radically altered the data for Pluto, for on that date in 03 A.D., and threw in a few minor adjustments for a few of the other planets. They moved Pluto to 01* 00' 51", moving the planet , 1 minute and 59 seconds, that is 119 seconds of a degree.
The computer progamer at JPL that produced the computer program that astrodienst was using did say that there was an allowance for Pluto's position of plus, or minus, up to 2', that is two minutes of one degree. The JPL programs were, and may yet be, used by NASA for their callculations and that very progaram that produced the natal chart for the Nazarene in 2004 was what NASA used to launch that probe towards Pluto. That probe flew within somewhere around 7,000 miles to the planet when it took those marvelous photos.
Pluto takes 247.94 years to orbit the Sun at an average velocity of 10,623 miles per hour. There are 8766 hours in a year. There are 2,173,442.04 hours in 247.94 years. Thus by that data Pluto's orbit around the Sun, the total distance of one orbit, is 23,088,474,790.92 miles. As there are 1,296,000 seconds of a degree in 360 degrees, then one second of difference in Pluto's location amounts to 17,815.18.... miles. [apprx.]

So, when asrodienst decided that they needed to move pluto 119 seconds of one dgree that amounted to 2,112,006.589.... miles. Yet the adjustment didn't send a 'ripple" throughout the timeline of their ephemeris. Pluto's position didn't change once you looked past three or four years before or after. It would still be right where earlier charts had it placed... the only changes was from around 1 b.c. to 06 A.D....
So, astrodienst has moved Pluto again, and at the birth of the United States... two charts that I've championed... and made remarkable proofs utilizing... which makes their own astrologers look rather dense, and I know that the Vatican has been rather upset with me and my "Yeshu'a" chart for some years now... lucky for them that the Swiss provide free protection for the Pope.

I've caught a lot of guff from "professional" astrologers ever since I started promoting the "Zero Hour" natal chart..,. and those three, spot on the day, predictions I made, must all make for some terribly bad publicity.... not to mention I predicted Donald Trump would not only get the Republican Party nomination in January of 2016 but that He would win the election that November... I don't know of any other astrologer that predicted the same for Trump, I don't even know of any clairvoyants that did either, for that matter.

So astrodense says that on July 4, 1776 that Pluto was 11" ahead of where they said it was up until about 9 yeas ago. That's a difference of 195,966.99 miles.
So, if Pluto must be given an additional 11" to it's natal position then the Sidereal return, in retrograde, occurs at 01* 01' 59" instead of 01* 01' 48", and then the event will be at apprx. 4:05 a.m. the same day, that is to say 3 hours and 5 minutes earlier.

...and then again, this is all based on the current estimation of how long it takes for the Sidereal and the Tropical Zodiacs to realign, i.e. 25,772 years... asrodienst may well decide to change that too sometime in the future?

My advice is to stick with the original natal chart for the USA that I have posted above.

 

[piercethevale]

I'm currently going over the enite list of Astrological Parts derived from the "Zero Hour" natal chart for the USA, and am adjusting for the Sidereal precession to the day that Pluto makes its natal return in retrograde this July 16th.. So far I've gone through all the Parts that are derived from Asc. + Mercury and Asc. + Venus.
Here's what I've found, so far.
On that same day Mars will be conjunct to the Part of Disputes two days later, at 28* 34'.

Lilith will be conjunct, within a one degree orb, to the Part of Faith at 02* 48'... that's rather disturbing to me.

Jupiter will be, conjunct within a one degree orb, to the Part of Astrology at 10* 34'

Pluto, the following year, on May 4, 2025, will go retrograde at 03* 49' and that is within a one degree orb of conjunction to the Part of Danger/Violence, adjusted for the Sidereal precession.. The natal position is at 01* 13' 05" and Pluto will be conjunct that Tropical point [it already was February 29-March 1] on July 7th or 8th.
Pluto will be conj. the Part of Danger/Violence, adjusted for the Sidereal precession, at apprx. 04* 43' 13" on March 7th or 8th in 2026 and the natal Part of Deceit [which at the Tropical position in 1776 was at 01* 18' 49"], adjusted for the precession, will be at 04* 48' 57" four days later on March 12, 2026.

What I find particularly disturbing is that Pluto will be conjunct the natal Part of Danger/Violence, for the first time since 1779, [In April 1777, it was withing a one degree orb before it went retrograde, and made an exact conj. in March of 1778, then went retro in the same degree in June of 1778, then direct wthin a one degree orb in December 1778 and an exact conjunction in January and again in September, and November, of 1779]

To be continued when I get a ound to it.

 

[John Thompson]

Charts of other nations, particularly the European, I find vexing. I'm of the opinion that their "births" are too difficult to determine and even if anyone of them that is presently recognized is in fact valid, I know too little about foreign history to even begin to trying to understand them. I've got my hands full with that of the United States, and I have a number of other astrological matters I'm in continuous research with.
I've made a number of posts pertaining to the USA's natal chart since March of 2012. What I've found for the time of our Civil War to be one of the most convincing of arguments for the "Zero Hour" chart to be the valid chart. The 1960's in the U.S. and what astrological effects were prevalent is also a good study.
I mentioned above about the Sabian Symbolgy for the USA's Asc. and how it is the "WHO" of ones' chart axis. I didn't bring up the Desc., the 'WHERE-TO", [or, as I sometimes prefer to say, the "WHOM-TO"] is in the 22nd degree of Libra [also the location of my Natal Neptune]. It has as its Sabian Symbol:
[ibid.]
"LIBRA 22°: A CHILD GIVING BIRDS A DRINK AT A FOUNTAIN.
KEYNOTE: The concern of simple souls for the welfare and happiness of less-evolved beings who thirst for life renewal.
The original statement of this symbol is far more significant than the later formulation, for what is expressed here is a reversal of the operation mentioned in the preceding symbol. Man, who has built the fountain — perhaps on arid land and through skillful work — gives the life-bestowing water to the thirsting birds. He does not go to the sea, but he brings the purified, drinkable water to the birds needing it. The connection between 'child' and 'birds' implies a spontaneous, naïve rapport at the spiritual level, a soul-touch at the level of pure feelings

. At this second stage of the five-fold process the contrast with the first takes on a suggestive aspect. What you received from the Infinite, you can give to the finite beings that thirst for it. Man does not need to destroy nature's wilderness through greed and carelessness; he can transform this wilderness into a garden, whose singing fountains will attract birds. We can use here Marc Jones's
Keyword for this degree: SOLICITUDE."

We were meant to become a place where one could find true spiritual nourishment, a land to allow ones own spiritual nature to become manifest

ON OCTOBER 9, 1965, URANUS AND PLUTO WERE CONJUNCT AT 17* 09' 57" and the USA's natal Part of War [Asc. + Mars - Pluto] adjusted for the Sidereal precession up to that time was at 17* 20' 28" and We were just beginning to wage large scale war on the Vietnamese.
The N.Node at that time was in the 6th degree of Gemini.
[ibid.]
"GEMINI 6°: WORKMEN DRILLING FOR OIL.
KEYNOTE: The avidity for that knowledge which ensures wealth and power."
..and Dane's Keyword: "AMBITION."

I think that it can also be understood as an avidity for just wealth and power... at least in its lowest form... although there were rumors of a belief that the Bay of Saigon sat over a huge oil field ...hmmm...?

May God bless you in your astrological endeavors... thanks for the support.

I've been a mundane astrologer for some 40yrs now and have lectured and many times commented on the integration of
British VS American chart synastry. For ten years I worked for the present Earl of Dartmouth [Princess Diana's' step bother]. During our conversations he showed me his family tree through heraldry. He claims that his connection as part of the Washington family, shows that his family heraldry was responsible for the origin of the Stars and Stripes of the American flag. Lady Anne Washington was the sister of George Villiers, the first Duke of Buckingham and purported to be the gay lover of James 1st [ancestors of the Dartmouth family line].. What's interesting, is that if we consult Nick campions 'Book of World Horoscopes' on the 'Declaration of War', we get the following in regard to 6 July 1775: ' Nevertheless Boyd's map for 11:00am has achieved a fairly wide currency as, if not a US 'birth chart', a chart for the US at war. Two days later, on 8 July 1775 Congress sent what came to be known as the 'Olive Branch Petition' to England with Richard Penn who attempted to pass it to George 3rd via Lord Dartmouth. but the king refused to read it'. To reiterate, Lord Dartmouth was part of the Washington family, but also highly regarded within the Royal court.
I was the curator/security for Lord Dartmouth's original paintings of Anne [Lady Washington],and her brother George Villiers [amongst others related to British Royalty].

 

[piercethevale]

I've been a mundane astrologer for some 40yrs now and have lectured and many times commented on the integration of
British VS American chart synastry. For ten years I worked for the present Earl of Dartmouth [Princess Diana's' step bother]. During our conversations he showed me his family tree through heraldry. He claims that his connection as part of the Washington family, shows that his family heraldry was responsible for the origin of the Stars and Stripes of the American flag. Lady Anne Washington was the sister of George Villiers, the first Duke of Buckingham and purported to be the gay lover of James 1st [ancestors of the Dartmouth family line].. What's interesting, is that if we consult Nick campions 'Book of World Horoscopes' on the 'Declaration of War', we get the following in regard to 6 July 1775: ' Nevertheless Boyd's map for 11:00am has achieved a fairly wide currency as, if not a US 'birth chart', a chart for the US at war. Two days later, on 8 July 1775 Congress sent what came to be known as the 'Olive Branch Petition' to England with Richard Penn who attempted to pass it to George 3rd via Lord Dartmouth. but the king refused to read it'. To reiterate, Lord Dartmouth was part of the Washington family, but also highly regarded within the Royal court.
I was the curator/security for Lord Dartmouth's original paintings of Anne [Lady Washington],and her brother George Villiers [amongst others related to British Royalty].

Fascinating. Thank you for your contibution and insights.
I highly recommend getting familar with the Sabian Symbols, most especially as presented by the late Dane Rudhyar. You will find that when dealing with a genuine natal chart, whether it be human based or mundane [that is for the birth of a nation] that the symbology is perfectly relevant to the chart axis [The "WHO", WHERE-TO", "HOW", AND "WHY" of a person or nation] and to the nature of all Astrological Parts/Lots.
I have also found them to be the ultimate tool for chart rectification as well as validation.
If you find yourself inclined to want to use Marc Edmond Jones interpretations, then give a read as to what Dane wrote about their differeences in approach and understanding. Marc only got so far as to recognize the relevance of the oppositions, whereas Dane not only recognized that they are, as a complete set, a process of tansformation in addition to seeing through as to which ones Marc recreated to fit his theory of what he was predisposed to believe that they encapsulated. In short, "Dane was the man".May the Stars guide your way.
ptv

 

[John Thompson]

Hi Piercethevale.
The Sabian's work very well in my own natal chart. As I said, Lord Dartmouth talked me through the connections using heraldry; my natal MC sits at the 22nd degree Virgo 'A Royal coat of arms'.
Twenty five years ago, through an astrological election I decided to move from London to Exeter [some 160 miles away]. Fifteen years ago, my eldest brother undertook tracing our genealogical roots, and found that the earliest we could trace back my mothers side of the family back to [great, great grand-parents or whatever] were both born in Exeter in the 1700's ; my natal Uranus [in 9th] sits at 14th degree Virgo 'A family tree'.
Certainly working well.
Curiously I've been looking at 16th July for British royalty for some time. Certainly Uranus returning to late Taurus always shows great upheaval, and at the moment I'm looking at multiple charts with possible passing of Meghan's father; no firm conclusion yet but Harry's progressed Saturn will have just crossed his natal MC. The transit Sun will be her fathers birthday/on her ASC. That said, the latest full Moon cut the ASC//DEC axis of the Edgar chart, and apparently there have been discussions as to possible stripping titles from Harry and Meghan.

 

[piercethevale]

Hi Piercethevale.
The Sabian's work very well in my own natal chart. As I said, Lord Dartmouth talked me through the connections using heraldry; my natal MC sits at the 22nd degree Virgo 'A Royal coat of arms'.
Twenty five years ago, through an astrological election I decided to move from London to Exeter [some 160 miles away]. Fifteen years ago, my eldest brother undertook tracing our genealogical roots, and found that the earliest we could trace back my mothers side of the family back to [great, great grand-parents or whatever] were both born in Exeter in the 1700's ; my natal Uranus [in 9th] sits at 14th degree Virgo 'A family tree'.
Certainly working well.
Curiously I've been looking at 16th July for British royalty for some time. Certainly Uranus returning to late Taurus always shows great upheaval, and at the moment I'm looking at multiple charts with possible passing of Meghan's father; no firm conclusion yet but Harry's progressed Saturn will have just crossed his natal MC. The transit Sun will be her fathers birthday/on her ASC. That said, the latest full Moon cut the ASC//DEC axis of the Edgar chart, and apparently there have been discussions as to possible stripping titles from Harry and Meghan.

Outstanding....!!! You've recognized the validity of the Sabian Symbols as they apply to the Astrological Parts...!!! That's such a "step up" above all the other "astrologers".
The 14th degree of Virgo is my Part of Ancestral Heritage... so I know just how significant that particular degree is when found in a natal chart.
My mothers' ancestors were Quakers from Cheshire, England, and they came to America onboard the H.M.S. Endeavor i 1683 and were the first settlers of Bucks County Pennsylvania. Richard and Margaret Hough. Richard was a personal friend of Wm. Penn and served in the colonys' legislature and was a judge. He drowned in the Delaware River in 1708 [I think the date is correct?] and his great-grandsom, William II, declared himself to be a Free Quaker, in 1778, and served in two Virginia regiments and was at the Battle of Yorktown. I am a descendant of him and his second wife, whom we believe was a Powhatan native American... the first wife Rachael [nee Bean} was said to have been descended from royalty I am the last of the Quakers.
Allegedly I'm also, somehow... for some reason [according to Rudolf Steiner] the reincarnation of the Round Table Knight, Parsival... hence why I use the moniker "piercethevale" online. An emissary of Dhyanyogi Madhusudandas made me aware of this back in 2003... well. actually, it was when He loaned me a copy of "The Cup of Destiny" by Trevor Ravenscroft, that I became aware of that... a post card arriving the day before from my clairvoyant friend "set the stage" for me to understand that I am that reincarnated soul.... yet I'm not going around claimng to be somenone that can't be verified by other than high, mucky-muck, gurus from India and clairvoyants... although clairvoyant Clarisse Conner, is renowned for her gift of seeing and has yet to fail me in any of the readings I have obtained from her since our first meeting in early 2003.
Allegedly, according to Steiner, the reincarnated Parsival must also be a descendant of the House of David through Joeseph Of Arimathea and, or, James... biological half brother of Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth...both of whom allegedly settled in the area of madern day Glastonbury around 42 A.D. ... there's the connection that substantiate that Aristocratic Family Tree being the degree my Part of Ancestral Heritage is found in, i.e. the 14th degree of Virgo.
I wish you all the best in further astrological endeavors and the pinnacle of success that you might posssibly achieve. It's is through wizened souls, such as yourself, that true astrological knowledge with become widely known and that, one day, astrology will be recognized not only as a "science", but, hopefully, just as Dane Rudhyar did predict ... it will also be recognized as "The Mother of All Science".
May God Bless and assist you.
ptv

 

[John Thompson]

Hi PTV



Of all the formal religions, it's the Quakers that I have the most affinity with; in fact my local astro group use our Meeting House in which I have lectured with great success.

In using the Sabian's many use the degree before and after, as I'm sure you are aware with many really not recognising just how pertinent they are.

My Venus is in really close conjunction with the MC across the 22/23 Virgo degrees. The Lion Tamer degree is interesting, for my mother witnessed two separate attacks of Lions on their keepers at zoos/animal sanctuaries in her lifetime.

The opposite degree in Pisces is 'A materialising medium'. I'm what's known as a transfiguration medium, where spirit show themselves by overshadowing my face. I have also had full blown materialisations, although this has been really quite rare, the first incidence of this occurred when I was 14 at the transiting Saturn opposition; all the physical mediums I have come across have both Saturn and Pluto in aspect to angles. I have Saturn square ASC and Pluto physically [not zodaically] conjunct MC; I earn my living as a decorative plasterer and stone mason [very Saturn/Pluto/Venus/angles].

As a brass musician, I believe the breathing control/exercises involved in this are directly responsible for the materialisation phenomena and have played in all the Royal parks throughout London.

I came to astrology at the age of 15 after reading a book titled The Psychology of Music, which went on about the planets/astrology etc.

I worked with [and was taught astrology by] an English astrologer by the name of Lilly Buckley, who I had a very strange connection to; both our mothers worked for the Prince of Wales/future kings My mother worked for the present King, where as Lilly's worked for Edward.[VIII].

I remember being asked by Lilly if I'd drive her to see her mother in hospital; this would have been 1994 and her mother was in her 90's then. Her mum was blind but mentally was incredibly sharp. At one stage she asked me to stay with her mum while she spoke to her nurses. As soon as Lilly went out of the room her mother started reminiscing about cooking for Edward and Mrs Simpson in their secret meetings; turned out that Lilly's mum was illegitimate royalty, and also related [in some way] to Annie Besant.



I do know Glastonbury well, and there was a Dutch astrologer based there who wrote three books on degree areas [can't remember the name but have the books in my attic]. My mother lived in Amesbury, right next to Stonehenge for the last twenty years of her life and have done much research of the areas astrology.

It's getting long now so I will sign off. Please take care of yourself, and know that I admire that which you are trying to achieve.

With kindest regards. John

 

[piercethevale]

Hi PTV



Of all the formal religions, it's the Quakers that I have the most affinity with; in fact my local astro group use our Meeting House in which I have lectured with great success.

In using the Sabian's many use the degree before and after, as I'm sure you are aware with many really not recognising just how pertinent they are.

My Venus is in really close conjunction with the MC across the 22/23 Virgo degrees. The Lion Tamer degree is interesting, for my mother witnessed two separate attacks of Lions on their keepers at zoos/animal sanctuaries in her lifetime.

The opposite degree in Pisces is 'A materialising medium'. I'm what's known as a transfiguration medium, where spirit show themselves by overshadowing my face. I have also had full blown materialisations, although this has been really quite rare, the first incidence of this occurred when I was 14 at the transiting Saturn opposition; all the physical mediums I have come across have both Saturn and Pluto in aspect to angles. I have Saturn square ASC and Pluto physically [not zodaically] conjunct MC; I earn my living as a decorative plasterer and stone mason [very Saturn/Pluto/Venus/angles].

As a brass musician, I believe the breathing control/exercises involved in this are directly responsible for the materialisation phenomena and have played in all the Royal parks throughout London.

I came to astrology at the age of 15 after reading a book titled The Psychology of Music, which went on about the planets/astrology etc.

I worked with [and was taught astrology by] an English astrologer by the name of Lilly Buckley, who I had a very strange connection to; both our mothers worked for the Prince of Wales/future kings My mother worked for the present King, where as Lilly's worked for Edward.[VIII].

I remember being asked by Lilly if I'd drive her to see her mother in hospital; this would have been 1994 and her mother was in her 90's then. Her mum was blind but mentally was incredibly sharp. At one stage she asked me to stay with her mum while she spoke to her nurses. As soon as Lilly went out of the room her mother started reminiscing about cooking for Edward and Mrs Simpson in their secret meetings; turned out that Lilly's mum was illegitimate royalty, and also related [in some way] to Annie Besant.



I do know Glastonbury well, and there was a Dutch astrologer based there who wrote three books on degree areas [can't remember the name but have the books in my attic]. My mother lived in Amesbury, right next to Stonehenge for the last twenty years of her life and have done much research of the areas astrology.

It's getting long now so I will sign off. Please take care of yourself, and know that I admire that which you are trying to achieve.

With kindest regards. John

Thank you, John. What amazing experiences you've had...!

I find it very interesting about the woman named Lilly. In the early 90's I utilized the clairvoyant talents of a woman named Lilly that had a very pronounced British accent. I only spoke to her on the phone and I don't know where she was located but I have to imagine that she was in America at the time as I was using a land line telephone back then. She was very good. She knew the names of people I associated with and she warned me to "stay awayfrom Ray". She was correct, I already knew that he was destined for the "clinker" and only associated with him because he was a member of the painters crew I worked with and was a source for cannabis... which was still illegal in the U.S.A. back then, but He was my only source. I rarely "imbibe" anymore, however... pity that it took so long to become legal... at least here... eh?
I was a journeyman painter almost all my working year, and specialized in repairing plaster. Repairing a "Tiffany finish" was the most challenging. Here in California there is a lot of work in the older homes for such due to th earthquakes that are so prevalent here. Now that sheetrock is used, almost exclusively, in new construction there isn't as much call for plaster repair as there was 50 yeas ago. I'm 71 now qnd had to retire ate age 47 due to back inuries.

Now that intenational calls are so relatively inexpensive, I will recommend my clairvoyant friend of the last 22 years, Clarisse Conner, if you are ever in need of some one so gifted. I'm clairvoyant myself, but it only occurs in the dream state and I have no control over it.. I have a near perfect Uranus-Asc. trine, with Uranus in the 8th House and a Scorpio Asc.. Uranus is also in the same degree, the 16th of Cance, as is my Part of Hidden Identity aka Part of Oration... check out the Sabian Symbol for that degree and keep in mind that Dane rudhyar titled his book on the Sabians, "An Astrological Mandala"... I think you'll see what I'm "getting at"? Clarisse Conner is in Chico, Calif. and you can find her online by google's assistance. She is top notch. I first came into her acquaintance by recommendation to help me with problems that arose from having been swindled by my own lawyers in the workers disability lawsuit I had against my former employer. She "picked uP' on extraneous influences and gave me life saving advice. She also told me that I would be writing and achieving some degree of notoriety, or "fame" [she did say that I would become famous eventually, at least to future generations. I had not the least of any "inkling" as to what she was going on about at that time. I do have one book published on astrology, but it is out of print and now being "suppressed" by the "powers that be"

I do have a thread somewhere in this forum, about the similarities I found in renowned clairvoyants charts. I can't remember the title of it or exactly where that thread is ...as to which sub forum... but I think that you'll find it most interesting and you might wish to compare notes if you can find it. If I remember anything, or can find the thread myself, I'll post the information. It involes bi-quintile and Uranus and the Moons Nodes.

My father was a painter too. In fact he was also a fine artist... self taught... the portrait of the Navaho Native American that I'm currently using as an "avatar" is an example of his work. It is done in gouache. He was the foreman pinter for the Beverly Hills Hotel for many years and hired only guild trained painters from Europe for his crew as due to the fine decorating skills required, as some "faux" work was required from time to time.
It's been wonderful chatting with you and hearing about your experiences.

.

 

[piercethevale]

Man... Clapton is just so smooth on that fretboard...
a song for the present times.... Be a factor for change...!
https://youtube.com/watch?v=efFo-Cl...-HNNn_rGzDQ-908m75SHjTh-lFnrbV4Pia-Wcc-v4K5G1

 

[piercethevale]

Hi PTV



Of all the formal religions, it's the Quakers that I have the most affinity with; in fact my local astro group use our Meeting House in which I have lectured with great success.

In using the Sabian's many use the degree before and after, as I'm sure you are aware with many really not recognising just how pertinent they are.

My Venus is in really close conjunction with the MC across the 22/23 Virgo degrees. The Lion Tamer degree is interesting, for my mother witnessed two separate attacks of Lions on their keepers at zoos/animal sanctuaries in her lifetime.

The opposite degree in Pisces is 'A materialising medium'. I'm what's known as a transfiguration medium, where spirit show themselves by overshadowing my face. I have also had full blown materialisations, although this has been really quite rare, the first incidence of this occurred when I was 14 at the transiting Saturn opposition; all the physical mediums I have come across have both Saturn and Pluto in aspect to angles. I have Saturn square ASC and Pluto physically [not zodaically] conjunct MC; I earn my living as a decorative plasterer and stone mason [very Saturn/Pluto/Venus/angles].

As a brass musician, I believe the breathing control/exercises involved in this are directly responsible for the materialisation phenomena and have played in all the Royal parks throughout London.

I came to astrology at the age of 15 after reading a book titled The Psychology of Music, which went on about the planets/astrology etc.

I worked with [and was taught astrology by] an English astrologer by the name of Lilly Buckley, who I had a very strange connection to; both our mothers worked for the Prince of Wales/future kings My mother worked for the present King, where as Lilly's worked for Edward.[VIII].

I remember being asked by Lilly if I'd drive her to see her mother in hospital; this would have been 1994 and her mother was in her 90's then. Her mum was blind but mentally was incredibly sharp. At one stage she asked me to stay with her mum while she spoke to her nurses. As soon as Lilly went out of the room her mother started reminiscing about cooking for Edward and Mrs Simpson in their secret meetings; turned out that Lilly's mum was illegitimate royalty, and also related [in some way] to Annie Besant.



I do know Glastonbury well, and there was a Dutch astrologer based there who wrote three books on degree areas [can't remember the name but have the books in my attic]. My mother lived in Amesbury, right next to Stonehenge for the last twenty years of her life and have done much research of the areas astrology.

It's getting long now so I will sign off. Please take care of yourself, and know that I admire that which you are trying to achieve.

With kindest regards. John

Greetings, John. Here's the thread I mention above about the similarites I found among the natal charts of Clairvoyants. I myself am clairvoyant but it only happens in the dream state and I have no conscious control over it. I have an 8th House Uranus, in the 16th degree of Cancer, that is within a two degree orb to a trine to my Ascendant, in the 18th of Scorpio ... it confers a particular awareness...a sensitivity ... to "the departed".... in addition I have a Saturn - Neptune conj. in the 22nd and 23rd degs. of Libra in trine to an Aquarian Moon in the 25th of deg. which is also my M.C. The Moon trine is also a part of a "Harmonic Rectangel" that includes Pluto in Leo 21st deg., my M.C., Mercury and Venus, that have a mid-point in the 22rd deg. of Aries. Also, Moon bi-quintile Uranus along with Mars semi-quitle Uranus, and Mercury semi quintile Mars. It's these Uranus quintiles that I think you'll find most interesting?

The Saturn Neptune conj. is what I became most aware of at an early age due to the significant amount of ability it confers to the practice of meditation. I became a yogi at age 15.
"THE CLAIRVOYANTS' TRINE" https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-clairvoyants-trine.59528/

 

[John Thompson]

Greetings, John. Here's the thread I mention above about the similarites I found among the natal charts of Clairvoyants. I myself am clairvoyant but it only happens in the dream state and I have no conscious control over it. I have an 8th House Uranus, in the 16th degree of Cancer, that is within a two degree orb to a trine to my Ascendant, in the 18th of Scorpio ... it confers a particulary awareness...sensitivity ... to "the departed".... in addition I have a Saturn - Neptune conj. in the 22nd and 23rd degs. of Libra in trine to an Aquarian Moon in the 25th of deg. which is also my M.C. The Moon trine is also a part of a "Harmonic Rectangel" that includes Pluto in Leo 21st deg., my M.C., Mercury and Venus, that have a mid-point in the 22rd deg. of Aries. Also, Moon bi-quintile Uranus along with Mars semi-quitle Uranus, and Merucy semi quintile Mars. It's these Uranus quintiles that I think you'll find most interesting?

The Saturn Neptune conj. is what I became most aware of at an early age due to the significant amount of ability it confers to the practice of meditation. I became a yogi at age 15.
"THE CLAIRVOYANTS' TRINE" https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-clairvoyants-trine.59528/

 

[John Thompson]

Hi PTV





It's great to converse at a level where we can take note of others experiences with no preconceived expectations of judgement; the realm of the eternal apprentice loves conjectural art! I went through the link that you sent and it was very thought provoking. In fact I worked alongside Nick Kollerstrom [The eureka effect] in the early 90's, and believe that his integration of septiles/quintiles are very much in line with the way that Uranus and Neptune work in both the mundane and spiritual realms.
Musically, if we count in 5's [quintile] it's generally '1,2 – 1,2,3', or '1,2,3,- 1,2'. When we start counting in 7's, it's generally '1,2 – 1,2 – 1,2,3' or '1,2,3 – 1,2- 1,2' or '1,2-1,2,3 -.1,2', Combine the two timings, and they weave in and out of each other; when a musician can improvise using these time signatures you know you have someone special. Now Uranus and Neptune are almost like the flip side of the same coin. Politically, Uranus is regarded as right wing and Neptune left wing, but in so many ways people just see them as the extremes with different coats on. Politicians are good at giving us their fanciful visions with their alternate states of consciousness for the future; very Uranus/Neptune. So how can we be unique but also be part of a collective consciousness without ego getting in the way; this is the realms of Uranus/Neptune, Septile/Quintile. To become fully conscious we become androgynous in temperament without denying our sexuality. When I worked with Lilly Buckley, she instilled in me that Uranus works on the minds of men, but the emotions of women ; in the same way, Neptune works on the emotions of men and the minds of women. Maybe times are changing, but these kinds of concepts are no different to the ancient adages that the Sun rules the right eye of men, the left eye of women etc. If we combine balanced Uranus/Neptune, and septile/quintile aspects we experience all of the spiritual gifts allocated to the human race.
In terms of my own chart I have the following: Moon bi-quintile Mercury, Mercury quintile Mars, Mercury septile Pluto, Pluto conjunct Uranus quintile ASC. Neptune is bi-quintile node and tri-septile ASC.


I'm very Scorpionic, with Sun, Mercury, Neptune and ASC all in Scorpio. The Moon is in Gemini, in Scorpionic disseminating phase with the Sun.





God bless John [I hope it's not to controversial].

 

[piercethevale]

"Uranus works on the minds of men, but the emotions of women ; in the same way, Neptune works on the emotions of men and the minds of women."
That's profound...! It's something I've never realized. Thanks for the contribution.

The USA is about to be "pulled through the knothole", so to speak. I'm always reminding the younger generation here "To build something beautiful in its place".
If we decide to opt for a monarchy, we will be in touch.
Long Live the King.
Cheers...!

 

[piercethevale]

Hi PTV





It's great to converse at a level where we can take note of others experiences with no preconceived expectations of judgement; the realm of the eternal apprentice loves conjectural art! I went through the link that you sent and it was very thought provoking. In fact I worked alongside Nick Kollerstrom [The eureka effect] in the early 90's, and believe that his integration of septiles/quintiles are very much in line with the way that Uranus and Neptune work in both the mundane and spiritual realms.
Musically, if we count in 5's [quintile] it's generally '1,2 – 1,2,3', or '1,2,3,- 1,2'. When we start counting in 7's, it's generally '1,2 – 1,2 – 1,2,3' or '1,2,3 – 1,2- 1,2' or '1,2-1,2,3 -.1,2', Combine the two timings, and they weave in and out of each other; when a musician can improvise using these time signatures you know you have someone special. Now Uranus and Neptune are almost like the flip side of the same coin. Politically, Uranus is regarded as right wing and Neptune left wing, but in so many ways people just see them as the extremes with different coats on. Politicians are good at giving us their fanciful visions with their alternate states of consciousness for the future; very Uranus/Neptune. So how can we be unique but also be part of a collective consciousness without ego getting in the way; this is the realms of Uranus/Neptune, Septile/Quintile. To become fully conscious we become androgynous in temperament without denying our sexuality. When I worked with Lilly Buckley, she instilled in me that Uranus works on the minds of men, but the emotions of women ; in the same way, Neptune works on the emotions of men and the minds of women. Maybe times are changing, but these kinds of concepts are no different to the ancient adages that the Sun rules the right eye of men, the left eye of women etc. If we combine balanced Uranus/Neptune, and septile/quintile aspects we experience all of the spiritual gifts allocated to the human race.
In terms of my own chart I have the following: Moon bi-quintile Mercury, Mercury quintile Mars, Mercury septile Pluto, Pluto conjunct Uranus quintile ASC. Neptune is bi-quintile node and tri-septile ASC.


I'm very Scorpionic, with Sun, Mercury, Neptune and ASC all in Scorpio. The Moon is in Gemini, in Scorpionic disseminating phase with the Sun.





God bless John [I hope it's not to controversial].

I'm very curious and been wanting to know about such for some years now... do you have any insight on what a Man's Mars and a Womans Venus have in relationship through a Bi-Quintile aspect between the two?

 

[piercethevale]

Here's something else you may find of interest.

Music and the Path Of True Discipleship & the 7 & the 5

Howdy. this little theory of mine was brought up in orciniusorcas' thread on 'Musical Tonality' in the general chat forum. It has since languished over there and I'd like to revive it here with a thread along a different theme i.e spiritual and Sabian interpretation. I worked on this for some...

www.astrologyweekly.com

 

[John Thompson]

I'm very curious and been wanting to know about such for some years now... do you have any insight on what a Man's Mars and a Womans Venus have in relationship through a Bi-Quintile aspect between the two?

This is a very interesting question although other compatibilities would need to be exceptional if this is to work. Obviously, Venus in a woman's chart coupled with Mars in a Man's are the 'flip side of the same coin', but all of the five series of aspects need constant stimulation of the senses. Respect for each others perceptions on the physical, emotional realms etc, what you smell like even [sorry!] , sensitivity of touch, the way we perceive language will be very acute. Artistically this can be mega productive, with the signs involved showing the type of input each gives. Emma Belle Donath saw Venus and Mars in quintile as the 'international traveller/adventurer. I don't know about the sexual realm though, because unless each knows exactly what they want and able to express it through all five senses then boredom could become an issue giving way to one sided impotence/affairs conducted by the other. That said, Rob Wilkinson believes the bi quintile to be an 'interactive' aspect which certainly makes sense of my Neptune/Node aspect along with Moon/Mercury, whereby my music and spirituality is so adamantly expressed in group affiliations.