piercethevale
Well-known member
I have been giving some thought about beginning a thread on this subject, that there are some given titles that may not be entirely correct as for use in natal astrology that might be perfectly fitting for use in horary and, or, predictive astrology
...and, in my humble opinion, I now think that it is certainly needed.
I do think there are some that are definitely wrong for use in natal astrology. Although as for horary and predictive astrology, both fields that I have little experience with, especially horary, they may have legitimate application.
Some I find to be inappropriately titled, and others I have yet to see proven to be applicable, for use in natal astrology, with a few exceptions pending further study
Natal astrology is a relatively new field, or at least in known recorded history, as I believe astrology was a well developed and far more, and quite possibly entirely, understood "science [and legitimately a science, if not the 'Mother of all science'] in times of great antiquity.
The "Arabic Parts" have, seemingly, all been compiled, or produced, during the last millennia, with the possibility some may date further back, but they were used with horary and predictive astrology and many I have found have no application to natal astrology but I talking about the titles they have been given, not the formulae themselves. Those formulae are quite legitimate and I mean pretty much everyone of those I've presently listed in my thread, "Astrological Parts, Known and Unknown...a project", that has since become a "sticky" here in this sub-forum for Astrological Parts.
They are legitimate, and I'm referring to natal astrology here, as for those that use the same three factors in their formulae of a "Personal Point" added to the position of a "Significator" minus the position of the "Trigger" when the Asc. or the M.C. is used for the Personal Point' and any astronomical body of legitimate astrological influence, planetary or luminary, is used in the positions of the Significator and the Trigger, as those have been repeatedly proven beyond question. That possibly includes any that use the Desc. and I.C. as well.
Those that use another House Cusp as the Personal Point so far have seemingly been only applicable to horary and predictive astrology with a few exceptions , but not consistently, at least not yet as to the relatively little time I've given to their study and how often does one have any basis to look for an application to such subjects of torture, or decapitation, relative to an individual, for two examples? At least half of them obviously have been given titles that are for use in horary and predictive astrology, such as weddings and bereavement, for two examples of those.
Those that are using certain Astrological Parts as either the Significator or the Trigger in a combination with a planet or luminary, in particular the Parts known as the Part of Fortune or the Part of Soul/Spirit in either position, are quite legitimate. Most significantly those seven in particular known as "The Hermetic Lots", indicating they have been handed down through time spanning over two thousand years and in all likelihood were introduced to mankind by the very person they are attributed to, Hermes. If there was such a person as Hermes, or not, makes little difference as for how appropriate the Sabian Symbols for those Lots that I've derived from natal charts are to the individuals in question.
Those of us that do believe such a person existed [and I am one among those that believe Hermes most likely was also that person that was known as Melchizedek to various other lands] might possibly even say, at least some among us, ''if Hermes approved of them then they're both genuine and of profound influence''. In my estimation, based on my experience in studying them, they certainly are in the use for natal astrology
Those Astrological Points that use a planet as the personal point I've yet to be convinced of, with the exceptions of the Part of Bankruptcy and the Part of Separation from Occupation, as the former does seem legit as to the natal chart for the USA and the latter was possibly of significance when Hilary Clinton left the Senate to take president Obama's offer of becoming Secretary of State.
Those Parts that include one of the "trans-Saturnian" planets are of particular interest to me at present, because they are so relatively new to Astrological science as many have titles that I found listed for them, that seem to have been given them by astrologers that practice horary and predictive astrology, not natal.
The Astrological Part that is the subject of the thread I wrote, a couple of days ago, that I titled as the "Astrological Part of Cancer, Malignancy?", being a very good example of this.
As the thread I initiated containing the list of Astrological Parts, that I've compiled, has gotten a noticable amount of "views" now, I have come to a conclusion that I should add a posting, somewhere on the list and, initiate this separate thread [that hopefully may get the status of a "sticky"], to advise all to be cautious about applying those Parts in question to natal astrology. As they don't seem to be properly identified by their title for such use, if they even have such use at all to begin with?
Only with time and a lot more study will we know for sure, one way or the other.
Until then, be discerning, use your own judgement, as to what may, or might not be, applicable to natal astrology. .. and if you read the entire aforementioned thread I posted the other day, then you know that I even made a mistake in giving that particular Part in question its first alternate title as it is not an influence enabling one to be clearly understood but rather to see clearly, and fully, what is at hand... and even what might be "veiled".
I also recently came to the conclusion, or rather the realization, that the title I gave to the formula, Asc. + Mars - Pluto, i.e. the Part of War, is fine for the natal chart of a nation [and may even have horary and predictive use, but for natal chart use it should be titled, more appropriately, the Part of Rage. Although, due to my continuous study of that natal chart I contend is the legitimate natal chart of Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth, because both that Part and the Part of Ideal Love are conjunct that charts natal Mars, that it may even be possible, when dealing with a natal chart of someone so spiritually advanced, that it isn't about "Rage", or "War", but rather becomes a Part that is oriented towards "Transformative Action". [As I recently remarked to someone, "Jesus/Yeshu'a didn't wage war on anyone, he waged Ideal Love", although the incident concerning the money changers in the temple does tell us that He did kick some tail, so to speak, when dealing with blasphemers and the truly wicked. But as for taking a human life? I just don't think so.
[ A thought just now arose...that one might even interpret that combination of those two Astrological Parts and Mars, to mean that His Ideal Love was His love for God and when He saw such things that offended that Ideal Love, such as the usurers in the temple, it was His love for God that would trigger that Part of Rage and He took action?]
There's a lot to learn yet and the more that astrology comes out of the closet, it has seemingly been stuck in for centuries, and the more some of the greater minds born among us take to the study of astrology, rather than go to work for the "military industrial complex", or anything else just as inane, the sooner we'll have the answers, and the better off all of humankind will be for it.
Thanks for hearing me out... and all the preceding is In My Humble Opinion, of course.
ptv
...and, in my humble opinion, I now think that it is certainly needed.
I do think there are some that are definitely wrong for use in natal astrology. Although as for horary and predictive astrology, both fields that I have little experience with, especially horary, they may have legitimate application.
Some I find to be inappropriately titled, and others I have yet to see proven to be applicable, for use in natal astrology, with a few exceptions pending further study
Natal astrology is a relatively new field, or at least in known recorded history, as I believe astrology was a well developed and far more, and quite possibly entirely, understood "science [and legitimately a science, if not the 'Mother of all science'] in times of great antiquity.
The "Arabic Parts" have, seemingly, all been compiled, or produced, during the last millennia, with the possibility some may date further back, but they were used with horary and predictive astrology and many I have found have no application to natal astrology but I talking about the titles they have been given, not the formulae themselves. Those formulae are quite legitimate and I mean pretty much everyone of those I've presently listed in my thread, "Astrological Parts, Known and Unknown...a project", that has since become a "sticky" here in this sub-forum for Astrological Parts.
They are legitimate, and I'm referring to natal astrology here, as for those that use the same three factors in their formulae of a "Personal Point" added to the position of a "Significator" minus the position of the "Trigger" when the Asc. or the M.C. is used for the Personal Point' and any astronomical body of legitimate astrological influence, planetary or luminary, is used in the positions of the Significator and the Trigger, as those have been repeatedly proven beyond question. That possibly includes any that use the Desc. and I.C. as well.
Those that use another House Cusp as the Personal Point so far have seemingly been only applicable to horary and predictive astrology with a few exceptions , but not consistently, at least not yet as to the relatively little time I've given to their study and how often does one have any basis to look for an application to such subjects of torture, or decapitation, relative to an individual, for two examples? At least half of them obviously have been given titles that are for use in horary and predictive astrology, such as weddings and bereavement, for two examples of those.
Those that are using certain Astrological Parts as either the Significator or the Trigger in a combination with a planet or luminary, in particular the Parts known as the Part of Fortune or the Part of Soul/Spirit in either position, are quite legitimate. Most significantly those seven in particular known as "The Hermetic Lots", indicating they have been handed down through time spanning over two thousand years and in all likelihood were introduced to mankind by the very person they are attributed to, Hermes. If there was such a person as Hermes, or not, makes little difference as for how appropriate the Sabian Symbols for those Lots that I've derived from natal charts are to the individuals in question.
Those of us that do believe such a person existed [and I am one among those that believe Hermes most likely was also that person that was known as Melchizedek to various other lands] might possibly even say, at least some among us, ''if Hermes approved of them then they're both genuine and of profound influence''. In my estimation, based on my experience in studying them, they certainly are in the use for natal astrology
Those Astrological Points that use a planet as the personal point I've yet to be convinced of, with the exceptions of the Part of Bankruptcy and the Part of Separation from Occupation, as the former does seem legit as to the natal chart for the USA and the latter was possibly of significance when Hilary Clinton left the Senate to take president Obama's offer of becoming Secretary of State.
Those Parts that include one of the "trans-Saturnian" planets are of particular interest to me at present, because they are so relatively new to Astrological science as many have titles that I found listed for them, that seem to have been given them by astrologers that practice horary and predictive astrology, not natal.
The Astrological Part that is the subject of the thread I wrote, a couple of days ago, that I titled as the "Astrological Part of Cancer, Malignancy?", being a very good example of this.
As the thread I initiated containing the list of Astrological Parts, that I've compiled, has gotten a noticable amount of "views" now, I have come to a conclusion that I should add a posting, somewhere on the list and, initiate this separate thread [that hopefully may get the status of a "sticky"], to advise all to be cautious about applying those Parts in question to natal astrology. As they don't seem to be properly identified by their title for such use, if they even have such use at all to begin with?
Only with time and a lot more study will we know for sure, one way or the other.
Until then, be discerning, use your own judgement, as to what may, or might not be, applicable to natal astrology. .. and if you read the entire aforementioned thread I posted the other day, then you know that I even made a mistake in giving that particular Part in question its first alternate title as it is not an influence enabling one to be clearly understood but rather to see clearly, and fully, what is at hand... and even what might be "veiled".
I also recently came to the conclusion, or rather the realization, that the title I gave to the formula, Asc. + Mars - Pluto, i.e. the Part of War, is fine for the natal chart of a nation [and may even have horary and predictive use, but for natal chart use it should be titled, more appropriately, the Part of Rage. Although, due to my continuous study of that natal chart I contend is the legitimate natal chart of Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth, because both that Part and the Part of Ideal Love are conjunct that charts natal Mars, that it may even be possible, when dealing with a natal chart of someone so spiritually advanced, that it isn't about "Rage", or "War", but rather becomes a Part that is oriented towards "Transformative Action". [As I recently remarked to someone, "Jesus/Yeshu'a didn't wage war on anyone, he waged Ideal Love", although the incident concerning the money changers in the temple does tell us that He did kick some tail, so to speak, when dealing with blasphemers and the truly wicked. But as for taking a human life? I just don't think so.
[ A thought just now arose...that one might even interpret that combination of those two Astrological Parts and Mars, to mean that His Ideal Love was His love for God and when He saw such things that offended that Ideal Love, such as the usurers in the temple, it was His love for God that would trigger that Part of Rage and He took action?]
There's a lot to learn yet and the more that astrology comes out of the closet, it has seemingly been stuck in for centuries, and the more some of the greater minds born among us take to the study of astrology, rather than go to work for the "military industrial complex", or anything else just as inane, the sooner we'll have the answers, and the better off all of humankind will be for it.
Thanks for hearing me out... and all the preceding is In My Humble Opinion, of course.
ptv
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conjuncts my natal Mean Black Moon Lilith, and that part is in Sabian:
