Arabic Parts I noticed in my chart.

[piercethevale]

Oh, I would agree for sure...

Interesting post. There were times when I did wonder if you were British, but you did give indications that you were more likely an American.
The name, James Burke, seems to "ring a bell, in that I think I recall reading of such a named person that has some historical significance to the American Revolution.
I will advise to keep in mind that the American colonies were not exclusively British. New York began as a Dutch settlement, Florida was Spanish, as was Texas, California, or most of it outside of what the Russians had claim to, and then there were the French, that had claim to most everything in-between... and let us not forget the indigenous peoples.
My mothers Quaker ancestors [first settlers of Bucks Co. Penn., in 1683] advocated for people of all faiths and nationalities to come live with them and be prosperous in community. My 6xs great grandfather, whom fought in the Revolution as a Free Quaker, had a mother [a 7xs great grandmother] whose father was Dutch, and they were Mennonites. He apparently heard the Mennonite Bishop, Christian Funk, [yeah, that was his actual name... look him up on Google and look up "Funkites", as well] give one of his appeals to a Mennonite congregation and "answered the call".

The chart axis and Part of Fortune derived from the natal chart of the USA [ the "Zero Hour" chart, I.e. 12:00:01 a.m., July 4, 1776, Philadelphia, Penn.] are what is so convincing that it is the only natal chart to consult concerning the USA. The Sabian Symbols being so "spot on".
In the thread on Kamala Harris becoming the next president, which I made a rare visit to last night and gleaning the information from member Elena J's post that the balloting will actually begin with mail in ballots from Alabama on Sept. 11, 2024. I cast a chart for Philadelphia at 1:00 a.m., as Alabama is in the Central time Zone and at midnight there it will be 1:00 a.m. EDST, and what I found for the charts' Part of Fortune at that moment and locale to be so much of interest and I believe to be very significant... which is cause for me to take yet another step in the direction of a conclusion that the Astrological Parts of a chart are so very much significant and possibly of the one of the highest degrees of importance in understanding a charts' significance, as to realizing and understanding ones' purpose and destiny, that is to say when they are properly titled and interpreted through the Sabian Symbol found for the degree of the Zodiac they are found to be in.
The chart, I cast, for the event of the beginning of the election for the next president of the United States on September 11th of this year, has the
the 10th degree of Libra for its Part of Fortune [From Dane Rudhyar's book, "An Astrological Mandala"]
"
LIBRA 10°): HAVING PASSED SAFELY THROUGH NARROW RAPIDS, A CANOE REACHES CALM WATERS.

KEYNOTE: The self-control and poise necessary to reach a steady state of inner stability.

This symbol hardly needs to be commented upon. It could be related to the fifth symbol of the preceding five-fold sequence referring to guru-chela relationship at the actional level. Here we are dealing essentially with the emotional life and its crises. At the next — mental and individual — level, the concluding symbol will suggest the perfect and smooth working of the intellect ruled by logic and simplicity of means.

This is the fifth stage of the thirty-eighth sequence; it concludes what was begun at the first stage. The inner 'revelation' which brought about dramatic confrontations can now be meditated upon as it is reflected on the calm waters of the mind. As a Keyword one may use the term RELIEF."

The key phrase here is, "[the]...symbol will suggest the perfect and smooth working of the intellect ruled by logic and simplicity of means.".

... and what I wrote as an observation is: The Part of Fortune doesn't necessarily mean that this will be employed at the time. What it does mean is that it should be. I can only pray that it will be.
As my natal Part of Fortune is exactly conjunct [in the same degree of the Zodiac] my natal M.C. I had discovered long ago just how significant the Part of Fortune is to any chart cast, natal in particular, but event charts, progressed charts, and likely horary as well. It is symbolic of what can be done to best facilitate the most fortuitous outcome sought. That outcome of the transformation from the Asc. to the Desc., the "Who" to the "Where-To", the outcome of the relationship between the I.C. and the M.C., I.e., the "Why", as to "How"... that the Part of Destiny be fulfilled.... which, by the way, reminds me... have you looked at your Part of Destiny and that of the Part of Hyleg, too?
The Part of Hyleg is said to be "THE PART" without which the remainder of all other Astrological Parts are meaningless. It is that which all the other Astrological Parts depose to. I will recommend that you not only use the established formula for the Part of Hyleg, [i.e. Asc. + natal Moon - Full or New Moon prior to birth, whichever was closer in time to birth] ... but that you also cast charts for both Moons prior to, and after, your birth. I did, and what I found was profoundly illuminating. Although, the presently accepted definition is that what is derived from the traditional, the established, formula is the Part of Hyleg and that is the Part which all the other Parts do actually depose to, I'm not yet certain that all four formulae don't have the same claim. It is said to be the root vitae, I.e. the "root of life", and it's written [to the best of my recollection, not an exact quote but close enough] "that it can exist on its own but all other Astrological Parts have no existence without it."

Anyways, I do recommend that you check them all out and see what you find as in relation to yourself. I have a thread on the Part of Hyleg, so if you do calculate for those Parts, it will be most appreciated if you share your findings and opinion as that would help to further advance that cause.
My Part of Hyleg, using the traditional formula, and it was the Full Moon which was closest to my day of birth, gives the 3rd degree of Pisces as a result. Check it out... [ibid]
"PISCES 3°): PETRIFIED TREE TRUNKS LIE BROKEN ON DESERT SAND.

KEYNOTE: The power to preserve records of their achievements which is inherent in fully matured cultures.

When a vast group of men succeed in building a culture with strong institutions which express themselves in significant symbols and works of art or literature, such an effort of many generations is rarely lost altogether. In one form or another, records of this culture endure or are mysteriously preserved, simply because they reveal the place and function of this particular culture in the long process of unfoldment of the potentialities inherent in archetypal MAN. It is such a concept that has been mythified and popularized in the religious idea of the resurrection of the dead on the Last Day. The symbol of petrified wood in the Arizona desert, however, tells us that the actual preservation of the records is never perfect or total. Only fragments remain, significant enough to reveal the essential archetypal form.

This third symbol of the sixty-seventh five-fold sequence brings the promise of social immortality — i.e. the preservation of the enduring (because archetypally meaningful) factors in whatever man attempts within his culture. A symbol of INDESTRUCTABILITY."

Isn't that exactly what I am doing as to about rectifying this lost ancient science of astrology?
I sure saw it that way, and I didn't calculate for this Part of Hyleg for myself until about 15 years ago... after I had written my book and it was published, and after I had become a member of this forum. Yet, it is a symbol that I wouldn't have been able to understand as to how it relates to me until after I had produced the natal chart for Jesus/Yeshu'a and the subsequently learned of my alleged karmic reason for being incarnate in the present. I was 51 years of age when I produced Yeshu'a's birth chart. Let that be something to keep in mind whenever you come across a natal Astrological Part that doesn't seem to make any sense as how it applies to your life. You just might not be yet at that point of time in your life as to when it will, when it is supposed to, make sense.

Interestingly, at least to me, is that it is symbolically so as like the Sabian Symbol for the Part of Destiny derived from the chart I produced for Yeshu'a/Jesus, which is in the 14th deg. of Capricorn. Check that out; [ibid.]
"CAPRICORN 14): AN ANCIENT BAS-RELIEF CARVED IN GRANITE REMAINS A WITNESS TO A LONG-FORGOTTEN CULTURE.

KEYNOTE: The will to unearth, in our culture as well as in any culture, what has permanent value, and to let go of nonessentials."

 

[piercethevale]

It has been of most ironic interest to me, that as I reputedly have some deep karmic connection with Yeshu'a, that as He was a carpenter and I ended up a house painter, that the painters always follow behind the carpenters. As we painters so liked to tease the carpenters with the following words: "A little putty and a little paint makes a carpenter what he ain't"
Not that I'm saying that He wasn't everything a carpenter could be, but rather what he built was damaged before the rest of us got to see it, and that I see myself in the role of "restoration"... if you can follow along with my allegory here?

Also, there was a most curious discovery after I had derived all four of these Hyleg type parts from both my and Yeshu'a's natal chart. My Part of Hyleg using a pre-natal New Moon produces the 18th degree of Virgo, while so does the Part derived using the Post natal Full Moon for Yeshu'a...and it also happens to be the Sign and degree derived for the Part of Soul from the USA's natal chart.

My mention above of when, as to the time in ones life, that these Astrological Parts may become understandable as to their relevant degree symbology, gives me cause to think about the Part of Soul... mine anyways, and I think that you might appreciate my sharing the following with you?

My Part of Soul is in the 10th degree of Aquarius and I knew of the Sabian Symbol for that Sign and degree since the time I spent those 9 months with my brother, learning about astrology. Although, it never made sense to me, I never understood it, until a few years after I produced the natal chart for Yeshu'a, when I was given the book, "The Cup of Destiny", to read and discovered that I have all the prerequisites to lay claim to being the re-incarnated Parsival. Which upon my asking my trusted friend, and renowned clairvoyant, Clarisse Conner, if I might indeed be, she subsequently confirmed, and this was not something I sought out, it was handed to me. In fact Clarisse had sent me a postcard just a few days before I was loaned a copy of that book, and urged to read it, upon which she had wrote that she, "... awoke that morning and had a vision of me on horseback, as a Knight with the power of the Sun, and that another Knight was riding towards me to do battle at my side." [I've posted a photocopy of that postcard in a few threads here at the forum over the years] Parsival is said to have been "Knight of the Sword, Knight of the Word, and Knight of the Sun, and He whom reads the Starry Script". It was an emissary of the Dhyanyogi Madhusudandas, a yogi by the name of Suryakant that I met in August of 2003, that made me aware of it, and it was he that loaned me that book, and it was subsequently revealed later on, that he was the reincarnation of Sir Galahad. Both Sir Parsival and Sir Galahad ...along with Sir Bors, went on the quest to find the Holy Grail, the "Cup of Destiny", yet it is said by legend that only Galahad found the Holy Grail and as a reward the angels ascended him unto Heaven without his having to suffer physical death and thus became the man of two realms. [Read the Sabian Symbol for the 7th degree of Aries and know that it is the M.C. of Suryakant's natal chart, aka the late Steven Johnson, he passed away in December of 2023 at 79 years of age] I was made to realize that it made no difference whether I wanted to believe it or not that I had been the legendary, or mythological, Parsival. That, in fact, I agreed to the "assignment" prior to my birth. [The book, "The Cup of Destiny" is based on the prophecy, or prediction, of Rudolf Steiner, who claimed that Parsival would be reincarnate in time for the new millennium. There are also a number of prerequisite conditions that have to be met... of which I found that I do satisfy all.] There are also a number of other souls that volunteered, prior to their births, to assist in this effort. My mother was also one, bless her soul and it happens to be what would have been Her 96th birthday today.

Prior to that time of realization as to who, I [allegedly] actually am, and why I was born, during my working years as a tradesman, particularly as a painter, I was known to all as "Painter Dave", but I eventually also became known as "Painter Dave, the astrologer", and at times just ''Astrologer Dave'' among my circle of close friends.
What the Sabian Symbol for my Part of Soul revealed only then made sense to me at the age of 54. [ibid.]
"AQUARIUS 10°: A MAN WHO HAD FOR A TIME BECOME THE EMBODIMENT OF A POPULAR IDEAL IS MADE TO REALIZE THAT AS A PERSON HE IS NOT THIS IDEAL. ...
...This can mean a critical need for SELF-REVALUATION."

I hope that helps assist you in coming to terms, in understanding, those Sabian Symbols that you may encounter that are relevant to any of your Astrological Parts which, at this present time, don't make any sense to you, or seem odd, or unrelated to you. Give yourself time and I am rather sure that they will, or should, when given the reflection and introspection that any may require.
I've written a bit excessively here in this post... as I see that I've now spent the entire afternoon at it... but I also had to re-calculate all the additional Hyleg like Parts I referred to as I had mis-placed, or lost, the list of my own. I turned out to be so lengthy that I had to break it into two separate posts. So, enough is enough and hopefully it wasn't too much?
ptv

 

[athenian200]

I am usually the person that's usually considered to be "too long-winded" by others, so if anything it's nice to encounter someone else that has a lot to say and can carry on a long conversation that covers a lot of ground.

I've lived in the Southern US most of my life, and my ancestors from what my aunt has gathered are basically generic WASPs from Virginia who all have their ultimate origins in England, Scotland, and Wales. AncestryDNA more or less confirms this, though in my case there is also Irish and Scandinavian DNA, plus about 2% Jewish. I don't have a direct connection to the other groups that are connected with the US founding. That said, I do agree that they were important, but what I'm most familiar with personally is the mainstream story that basically says we used to be British, then there was a revolution, and we became Americans somehow while still following the same basic culture and having the same ancestry we always did.

So, I checked on the Part of Soul, that's also called Part of Spirit or Spiritus (Ascendant + Sun - Moon). It looks like I did calculate that one earlier (third post on this thread, had a lot of other Arabic parts on the same place), but didn't look up the Sabian symbol. It's Sagittarius 25.

PHASE 265 (SAGITTARIUS 25°): A CHUBBY BOY ON A HOBBY HORSE.

KEYNOTE: The anticipatory enjoyment of powers one can only as yet dream of utilizing.

The horse has always been a symbol of power and, in many instances, of sexual energy. Until very recently the horse gave people a greater possibility of conquering more space and what that space contained. Mounted on his hobby horse and experiencing the to-and-frow rhythm of its motion, the well-fed boy unconsciously, and perhaps nowadays half-consciously, may anticipate the rhythm of the sexual act. In a sense it is also a kind of make-believe and growth through the imagination, but here – in contrast to what was shown in the symbol for Phase 261 – the imagination is active at the organic body level. There is something of an initiation in the play.

This is the last symbol of the fifty-third sequence of five. It ends in a mood of play, but it is a play filled with cultural expectation, unconscious though this expectation may be. We see here the FORSHADOWING of the mature experience of man/womanhood.

Nothing about it immediately stands out to me, except that my Part of Soul opposes the USA Part of Imprisonment at Gemini 25 (I've been looking over that one rather closely).

The only thing I can think of that fits even a little bit for the symbolism is, well... I am a bit overweight and have a tendency to be immature for my age. It sometimes feels like I am stuck at this level, being a kid acting out adulthood. Come to think of it, it's similar to the symbolism behind my Part of Wastefulness, too. The one that mentions a child carrying a bag of groceries, only this time it seems to center around age-appropriate behaviors for a child.

As for my Part of Fortune, that's at Sagittarius 7.

PHASE 247 (SAGITTARIUS 7°): CUPID KNOCKS AT THE DOOR OF A HUMAN HEART.

KEYNOTE: A stirring-up of individual longings for romantic love.

In contrast to the preceding, this symbol refers to what one might call a personal initiation through an ideal love. Far from being related to social value, ideal love tends to exalt individual characteristics in that it glorifies what seems able to fill poignant and often unconscious needs. Such a love is a projection of the anima or animus Images which in a sense complement the outer character of the one who loves. It is a subjective event which tends to bring to the lover a crisis or emotional chaos. Such a love often turns asocial if not antisocial and is blocked or frowned upon by society.

This second stage symbol is in direct opposition to that of the "cricket game." Intensely romantic love knows no rules and ignores collective purpose or dictates of reason. Yet it may bring to the individual an intensity of feeling which no group togetherness can arouse, at least at the ordinary social level. What is implied is a challenge to EMOTIONAL REBIRTH.

Relative to the USA chart, this is the USA's "Part of Mother" (Ascendant + Moon - Venus). I must admit, the intensity of that kind of ideal love does sound appealing, though it's a bit alien to my experience. It definitely makes sense to me on some level, that I would need to an experience some kind of emotional rebirth to access what's represented by the Part of Fortune, though.

So next, we get to the main Part of Hyleg/Radix Vitae (Ascendant + Moon - Syzygy), which for me is Sagittarius 22. I went over the other possible moons in that thread you mentioned about the Part of Hyleg.

PHASE 262 (SAGITTARIUS 22°): A CHINESE LAUNDRY.

KEYNOTE: Making use of one’s special racial-cultural background in order to survive and prosper in an alien environment.

There are many life situations in which because on one’s ancestral or personal background, or their special interests, and individual finds themselves separated from the people in the midst of whom they have to live. Yet they often can use this background a valuable foundation for smooth operation and acceptance by the alien environment, without losing their own natural character.

This second stage symbol stands in contrast to the one for the first stage. There is no longer a question of imitating the ways of a superior group, but instead of maintaining one’s own integrity in situations which neither give value for, not favour what one basically is. What is asked here is SELF-CONTAINMENT…and good humour!

Nothing in the USA chart corresponds to this that I can find, other than the USA's 9th house cusp being very close to that degree at Sagittarius 21. Which is oddly appropriate even if it doesn't hit the mark exactly. Overall, I can see this having a lot of possible meanings for me. It could mean that in some ways, I don't fit in with the people I'm surrounded by, and need to sustain life by making common cause with others who don't fit in or have similar tendencies. Or, taken more literally, it could mean that I'll eventually become an expat and sustain myself in an expat community abroad. I'm grasping at straws here...

Finally, you mentioned a Part of Destiny (Midheaven + Sun - Moon), which I have never looked at before. I'll take a look at it now.

PHASE 149 (LEO 29°): A MERMAID EMERGES FROM THE OCEAN WAVES READY FOR REBIRTH IN HUMAN FORM.

KEYNOTE: The stage at which an intense feeling-intuition rising from the unconscious is about to take form as a conscious thought.

The mermaid personifies a stage of awareness still partially enveloped by the ever-moving and ever-elusive ocean of the collective Unconscious, yet already half formulated by the conscious mind. Any creative thinker or artist knows well the peculiar mixture of elation and anxiety characterizing such a stage. Will the intuitive feeling fade away reabsorbed into the unconscious, or will the inexpressible realization acquire the concreteness and expressible form of a concept or a definite motif in an art form?

This fourth symbol in the thirtieth five-fold sequence suggests that the fire of desire for concrete and steady form burns at the root of all techniques of self-expression. An unconscious energy archetype is reaching toward consciousness through the creator, as cosmic Love seeks tangible manifestation through human lovers. The whole pre-human universe reaches eagerly to the human stage of clear and steady consciousness. It is this great evolutionary urge, this elan vital, which is implied in this symbol of the mermaid seeking human incarnation — the YEARNING FOR CONSCIOUS FORM AND SOLIDITY.

I really like this degree's symbolism a lot. I feel like it's connected to my Part of Innocence at Leo 14 somehow, like whatever it is I'm having trouble manifesting, feel a bit uncomfortable about manifesting, and feel naive about how to manifest, is something I am supposed to move forward with. I hope it does turn out like this someday. If not in this life, maybe in the next... it does mention rebirth.

Ah, I did mention there were three characters in the dream. I only mentioned one. I commissioned an artist to draw the three of them for me at one point.

So, I already mentioned James. He's pretty much this sort of old-fashioned, somewhat aristocratic Englishman who believes in things like "station in life," "knowing one's place," and of course Divine Right of Kings. He's all about following the rules, being respectable, and trying to maintain a sense of moral purity. There's just this general tiredness and feeling from him, always saying that he's "too old to understand this world."

The girl next to him is named Althea. She's a writer and artist who was born in California. Unlike James, she's definitely a somewhat modern American and was born in the late 1970s. She's holding a pencil and a mirror, and she loves writing, self-expression, gazing into her mirror that somehow allows her to see the past and the future as well as herself. She is fairly empathetic, intuitive, and kind of hates wearing shoes, but she's also very sensitive and can easily be hurt.

Finally, we have Solok. He's a Vulcan who was born in the distant future, sort of like Mr. Spock from Star Trek. He tends to have a very logical and unemotional perspective on things, seeing emotion and passion as something that leads to unneeded conflict. He's always analyzing things carefully with a magnifying glass or microscope, and sending and receiving messages via a communicator.

 

[piercethevale]

I am usually the person that's usually considered to be "too long-winded" by others, so if anything it's nice to encounter someone else that has a lot to say and can carry on a long conversation that covers a lot of ground.

I've lived in the Southern US most of my life, and my ancestors from what my aunt has gathered are basically generic WASPs from Virginia who all have their ultimate origins in England, Scotland, and Wales. AncestryDNA more or less confirms this, though in my case there is also Irish and Scandinavian DNA, plus about 2% Jewish. I don't have a direct connection to the other groups that are connected with the US founding. That said, I do agree that they were important, but what I'm most familiar with personally is the mainstream story that basically says we used to be British, then there was a revolution, and we became Americans somehow while still following the same basic culture and having the same ancestry we always did.

So, I checked on the Part of Soul, that's also called Part of Spirit or Spiritus (Ascendant + Sun - Moon). It looks like I did calculate that one earlier (third post on this thread, had a lot of other Arabic parts on the same place), but didn't look up the Sabian symbol. It's Sagittarius 25.



Nothing about it immediately stands out to me, except that my Part of Soul opposes the USA Part of Imprisonment at Gemini 25 (I've been looking over that one rather closely).

The only thing I can think of that fits even a little bit for the symbolism is, well... I am a bit overweight and have a tendency to be immature for my age. It sometimes feels like I am stuck at this level, being a kid acting out adulthood. Come to think of it, it's similar to the symbolism behind my Part of Wastefulness, too. The one that mentions a child carrying a bag of groceries, only this time it seems to center around age-appropriate behaviors for a child.

As for my Part of Fortune, that's at Sagittarius 7.



Relative to the USA chart, this is the USA's "Part of Mother" (Ascendant + Moon - Venus). I must admit, the intensity of that kind of ideal love does sound appealing, though it's a bit alien to my experience. It definitely makes sense to me on some level, that I would need to an experience some kind of emotional rebirth to access what's represented by the Part of Fortune, though.

So next, we get to the main Part of Hyleg/Radix Vitae (Ascendant + Moon - Syzygy), which for me is Sagittarius 22. I went over the other possible moons in that thread you mentioned about the Part of Hyleg.

It's may be too soon to come to an understanding with your own Part of Soul. As for your Part of Fortune, just keep in mind that it is a challenge to employ it. You may have noticed it is an "Emotional/Cultural" Sabian Symbol and as Rudhyar succinctly gave in summation, "What is implied is a challenge to EMOTIONAL REBIRTH." ... and that symbolism for your Part of Soul can also be interpreted to be one longing for the physical act of love, but still somewhat immature to actually achieve it. That could be taken to mean a spiritual immaturity, but it doesn't mean that it's your destiny to remain so. I might take a stab at this, and say that it could be a karmic condition that you have to atone, or compense, for in some way... My advice is; don't ignore Cupid and answer that door when he knocks. Your Part of Destiny does seemingly validate everything that you've written.

Interestingly, the 22nd degree of Sagittarius is also the location of the Part of Inheritance and Legacy derived from the natal chart that I contend, and am convinced, is the natal chart of Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth. But it is one of his natal Parts, one of the few, that has never been convincingly understood by myself as to how it applies to the man. Yet I can see much more clearly how it applies to you, as you have written that you have always felt as though you are a stranger in a strange land. Though don't think that is necessarily a racial, or cultural, alienation as it is possible that it means, and, or, also means [in fact it does mean a condition of alienation due to a uniqueness among your peers, society, brethren, etc. any one, or combination, even all of the above] being spiritually alienated... as that is, at times, what I believe it means regarding the Nazarene.

Yet it is necessary to remind oneself that He was an Essene, and [according to Edgar Cayce] the Essene's had isolated themselves from the other Hebrew sects since the time of Melchizedek, and studied the teaching of same, thus alienating themselves from all other Hebrews. They were not taken into captivity by the Babylonians. As to why? I don't know. Perhaps the Babylonians were unaware of them, or that they were not worth the trouble of even trying to find as they lived in the maze of canyons that exist near the Dead Sea, possibly even in the caves there...as it was in those caves that the Dead Sea scrolls were found. There may even have been an underground complex, like so many others that have only been recently discovered, hidden from the outside world, yet in as much as comfortable quarters as those that lived above ground, and not like a bunch of scruffy hippies, or primitives, as the term "cave dweller" seems to suggest? He was born, and raised, in what can be described as a society that was certainly alienated from all that surrounded them, and the legacy he has left, the true ministry and not "Churchianity"... what Edgar Cayce has identified as a Gnostic Christianity, that is certainly alienated today.

...hmmm? Maybe I have finally realized how this particular symbolism is to be understood as the Naz's Part of Inheritance & Legacy? Thanks, Athenian, you lit the fire and threw some wood on it.

My Part of Inheritance & Legacy, is in the 19th degree of Pisces, the same as Yeshu'a's Part of Fortune, "A MASTER INSTRUCTS A DISCIPLE"... and I do feel as like I'm in an alien environment.... in fact I know I am. I've always been on a "gnostic" path... I always will be.
As like my studies in astrology, I've studied many religions and have taken and employed what works, at least what works for me. I've grooved with he Hindus, rocked with the Sufis, admire the righteous ways of the Sikhs, found profound wisdom from the Jewish Kabbalists, belly laughed with the Taoists, meditated a bit with the Buddhists... and, man, how I dug Zen in my youthful years, especially the writings of Alan Watts ["What's the sound of one hand clapping"?], read the writings of Edmond Bordeaux Szekely on the Essenes, read a bit of Gurdjeiff, some of Dorthy Leon's work, Hermetic and Rosecrucian literature, Blavatsky, Manly Hall, and a boat load of Edgar Cayce, both his readings transcripts and what is written about him, and far too much more to list. Yet I was raised as, and do consider myself, a Free Quaker and also a yogi of the Sanatan Dharm [I'm called by the name of Devananda among fellow yogis]. But I am also in earnest service to, and in support of the ministry, of Yeshu'a of Nazareth.

Well I have really digressed, again, here this evening and written far more than was really necessary in reply to your post. I will repose at this point, maybe stay away from the internet for a few days, and "rejoin" myself.

Here's a bit of Alan Watts to groove to... about "wiggliness"

 

[athenian200]

It's may be too soon to come to an understanding with your own Part of Soul. As for your Part of Fortune, just keep in mind that it is a challenge to employ it. You may have noticed it is an "Emotional/Cultural" Sabian Symbol and as Rudhyar succinctly gave in summation, "What is implied is a challenge to EMOTIONAL REBIRTH." ... and that symbolism for your Part of Soul can also be interpreted to be one longing for the physical act of love, but still somewhat immature to actually achieve it. That could be taken to mean a spiritual immaturity, but it doesn't mean that it's your destiny to remain so. I might take a stab at this, and say that it could be a karmic condition that you have to atone, or compense, for in some way... My advice is; don't ignore Cupid and answer that door when he knocks. Your Part of Destiny does seemingly validate everything that you've written.

Well, if it is a karmic situation, I think I can shed a bit more light on it. First, that's an example of the kind of "stuck energy" I feel when I stare at my natal chart that doesn't seem to offer me much of a solution to my problems. The things that stand out to me are that I have Venus in the 12th house, Mars in the 8th house, and Saturn in the 7th house. What that means in my experience is... all kinds of obstacles get in the way of me forming relationships with people to begin with. The Saturn in the 7th house problem is well-known in astrology circles to be connected with late marriage or difficulties forming partnerships, so I probably don't need to go into that one. But Venus in 12th house adds to the problem as well, because it means the people I do wind up liking enough to consider relationships with tend to either be too far away or already in relationships. Mars in the 8th house compounds the problem, because I find that I'm mostly driven to "get inside" a mind or heart instead of a woman's pants... that is I'm obsessed with uncovering the truth about them and pushing for emotional depth, being someone they rely on for emotional support and psychoanalysis, often being more jealous of a person's therapist than their spouse.

To sum it up, I'm a passive, highly sensitive person who assertively pursues emotional and psychological depth, deals with a lot of obstacles to forming partnerships of any kind with others, and tends to fall for people who are unavailable in one way or another. I guess I'll just mention what it was like with the only meaningful relationship I ever had. To give you an idea... she had Mars in the 10th house, Pluto in the 1st house, and her Venus was exactly conjunct mine, but in her 7th house instead of the 12th. Somehow, that made the chemistry "work" in a way it never has for me before. Oh, and her MC/IC axis was exactly conjunct mine, but in reverse, so my IC degree was her MC, and my MC degree was her IC. That was what it took, astrologically, for someone to pull me into a relationship even temporarily.

Interestingly, the 22nd degree of Sagittarius is also the location of the Part of Inheritance and Legacy derived from the natal chart that I contend, and am convinced, is the natal chart of Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth. But it is one of his natal Parts, one of the few, that has never been convincingly understood by myself as to how it applies to the man. Yet I can see much more clearly how it applies to you, as you have written that you have always felt as though you are a stranger in a strange land. Though don't think that is necessarily a racial, or cultural, alienation as it is possible that it means, and, or, also means [in fact it does mean a condition of alienation due to a uniqueness among your peers, society, brethren, etc. any one, or combination, even all of the above] being spiritually alienated... as that is, at times, what I believe it means regarding the Nazarene.

That's interesting, I hadn't yet seen the chart of Jesus you drew up. I mostly knew you for the USA chart you created, I didn't think anyone would have the birth data for Jesus at this point, as much as they shifted the calendar around thanks to Pope Gregory.

Yet it is necessary to remind oneself that He was an Essene, and [according to Edgar Cayce] the Essene's had isolated themselves from the other Hebrew sects since the time of Melchizedek, and studied the teaching of same, thus alienating themselves from all other Hebrews. They were not taken into captivity by the Babylonians. As to why? I don't know. Perhaps the Babylonians were unaware of them, or that they were not worth the trouble of even trying to find as they lived in the maze of canyons that exist near the Dead Sea, possibly even in the caves there...as it was in those caves that the Dead Sea scrolls were found. There may even have been an underground complex, like so many others that have only been recently discovered, hidden from the outside world, yet in as much as comfortable quarters as those that lived above ground, and not like a bunch of scruffy hippies, or primitives, as the term "cave dweller" seems to suggest? He was born, and raised, in what can be described as a society that was certainly alienated from all that surrounded them, and the legacy he has left, the true ministry and not "Churchianity"... what Edgar Cayce has identified as a Gnostic Christianity, that is certainly alienated today.

The isolation part really is fascinating. My Mom and I are sort of hermits... like, I really didn't have many people around growing up, and when I was basically out of school (I was given a lot of latitude as to what to study for the homeschooling), I basically was afraid to leave the house because of truant officers and my neighbors barely knew I was living with my Mom. I was also kind of lying to my Dad about the situation whenever he'd ask me about school, because I knew he wouldn't like it. She has never been the type to go to a physical church, usually watching televangelists on Sunday while listening to gospel music on the radio. She tends to study her Bible and various religious commentaries on her own, often reading C.S. Lewis and Max Lucado among others, and just has a lot of Christian paraphernalia on the walls, but doesn't seem to like any of the churches we tried going to. She thinks they all are too contemporary and weird, try too hard to make the message relatable and don't seem scholarly enough for her interests. Plus, it always feels to her like they're more interested in tithes than in saving souls, so she's jaded about the churches.

As for me personally, I'll pray with my Mom, but tended to be skeptical of Christianity growing up, leaning more into Plato and Greek philosophy because it talks about a world of forms that are perfect, of which everything in the physical world is a distorted, imperfect version. Gnostic Christianity was kind of the exception, actually, and tends to be my preferred form of Christianity... when I first read about that, I thought to myself, "If Christianity has any truth to it, it has to be this version. This is the only one that makes sense." But of course, almost no one alive today takes that form seriously (Catholics killed it on the vine), so it's easier to try and get people to understand Plato's theory of forms and see the world around them as a flawed reflection of perfect, beautiful, eternal forms that way, through reason and contemplation, because Christianity itself is too linked with the Church and a lot of cultural traditions for most people to be able to see the Gnostic kind of truth in Christianity nowadays. It's almost easier to get their minds started down the right path with Greek philosophy and the allegory of the cave, hoping a deeper meditation on that perspective and research leads them to see the world in a more gnostic way on their own. That is to say, most people aren't into Christianity because they want truth, but because they wish to be aligned with tradition and be part of a community.

These days, I've also kind of gotten interested in Kabbalah and Jewish mysticism as well. So while I'm not that interested in mainstream Christianity, I seem to have become obsessed with both of the traditions it may well have sprang from... Jewish kabbalah and Greek philosophy. It's like... on some level, I think it came close to stating a truth about the world, but too much is missing now for anyone to be able to find that truth today using Church and Bible alone.

 

[leomoon]

Athenian:

I am usually the person that's usually considered to be "too long-winded" by others, so if anything it's nice to encounter someone else that has a lot to say and can carry on a long conversation that covers a lot of ground.
I've lived in the Southern US most of my life, and my ancestors from what my aunt has gathered are basically generic WASPs from Virginia who all have their ultimate origins in England, Scotland, and Wales. AncestryDNA more or less confirms this, though in my case there is also Irish and Scandinavian DNA, plus about 2% Jewish. I don't have a direct connection to the other groups that are connected with the US founding. That said, I do agree that they were important, but what I'm most familiar with personally is the mainstream story that basically says we used to be British, then there was a revolution, and we became Americans somehow while still following the same basic culture and having the same ancestry we always did

Ha ha ha about the "long winded" responses. I thought I was long winded! I was wrong.

Anyway, my P.O.Spirit is 14 deg. Sagittarius according to the link you posted, yet that is also my P.O.F. I thought. My "fortune" in life hasn't been so hot, so I suppose the good that comes out of P.O.S. for me is the transformation of the trine to Pluto that I've experienced in life from all the suffering. That plus I do have a good sense or humor, a rather dry wit.

Noting your Ancestry....I did the DNA thing too, and started a thread here . Like you, from England Scotland & Wales plus Germany and points near there. Over to America both prior to the Revolution and during the Revolution. They were Quakers and settled on the East Coast invited by William Penn. The British portion of the family is a totally weird happenstance. I told my husband that IF my Indian forefathers (a great grandparent) had not kidnapped a British child as he was out "berrying" as they called picking berries in the spring in Massachusetts and N.H. than he and I would never have met. See, both my husband and I turned out to be "cousins" something like 5th or 6th generation cousins. While I am related to Edgar Cayce's English side of the family via the paternal side he is related to Cayce' maternal side from England. My husband is easier, as ALL his relatives are from England (except for one or two from Scotland) otherwise, all English from what I've found. Mine are all over the place.

But back to the kidnapped British child. A child named Thomas Gill as I mentioned was out picking berries with a kind of male nanny according to the book I found recounting the story of these neighbors. This was before the American Revolution took place, but there was plenty of fighting between the settlers from England and the American Indians of whom I was related to. One of the Indian group stole away the child as was the custom then after the Settlers burned down their villages in revenge. Actually the Abanaki Indians (Iroquois) were listening to Roman Catholic priest who lived with them telling them that to raise the child "Catholic" would be a godsend, rather than as the British (Protestant) raised them. They also happened to kidnap a little girl in New Hampshire, (who eventually married this distant relative Thomas Gill) Gill became a Chief in the Tribe just as he was promised if he stayed with the Indians, lol. - What kid wouldn't?? His poor parents could not talk him into coming back home although they tried and tried.

The story was found online in an old book, so I was lucky to find it. I consider myself even luckier that is how I am related to my husband whose father and ancestors are all from Massachusetts and New Hampshire having come over on the British ships, and the Gills before the Revolution. So the way I understand it, he is related to the Gill family, and because of the kidnapping of Samuel, and Samuel's marriage to Rosalie....with the Indians, so am I.

(actually, the child who was kidnapped Samuel, was promised he could become a chief, but instead it was his son (see graph #4 who became the Chieftain of that tribe) His father was well loved and cherished however by the Indians and did marry Rosalie when they were both of age. (older) she too being white and kidnapped.

 

[leomoon]

note: I noticed the book pg. 49 said that "7 year old Samuel was kidnapped" but from my search he was 10 years old at that time and that is the date I used in the natal chart for him 1687 for dob. We know the date he was taken because of the book.. The "marriage of Samuel & Rosalie" is about the same time his biological mother Hannah died I thought she must have taken it terribly. They had other children, but every child is precious to a parent.

Here is the book I found online that talks about the children taken during the King Phillip Wars: (pgs. 49-50

The Story of the Family of John Clough : John Clough Genealogical Society : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The story of the family of John Clough, a man who settled in Salisbury, MA after arriving from England in the early 1600's.

archive.org

 

[piercethevale]

To sum it up, I'm a passive, highly sensitive person who assertively pursues emotional and psychological depth, deals with a lot of obstacles to forming partnerships of any kind with others, and tends to fall for people who are unavailable in one way or another. I guess I'll just mention what it was like with the only meaningful relationship I ever had. To give you an idea... she had Mars in the 10th house, Pluto in the 1st house, and her Venus was exactly conjunct mine, but in her 7th house instead of the 12th. Somehow, that made the chemistry "work" in a way it never has for me before. Oh, and her MC/IC axis was exactly conjunct mine, but in reverse, so my IC degree was her MC, and my MC degree was her IC. That was what it took, astrologically, for someone to pull me into a relationship even temporarily.

Quite an interesting relationship you had, astrologically speaking. The relationships that really seem to "click" I've found that there's always something interesting, and often unusual, astrologically about the synastry. Have you looked into the use of composite charts? They can be revealing, especially when that other person is drawn to you as per what your Hermetic Lot of Eros implies, for one example. Sometimes they even seem to have been divinely impelled to meet you and then become associated with you in some way that you might take to be a "sign" from above, someone like the woman I met, became intimately associated with her, I even asked for her hand in marriage, but circumstances beyond our control forced us apart. She became the inspiration to search for a natal chart of the date that Edgar Cayce gave, a chart that would have Pluto conj. the Asc. as that was the aspect from her own natal chart that I found to be of such a profound effect upon her. She is the textbook description given by the authors, Sakorian and Archer, in their, "Astrologer's Handbook", in their analysis of the natal aspect; Pluto conjunct the Ascendant.

Forum member, Phoenix Venus, and I also have a very unusual synastry. I met her when I made a rare venture outside of the Degree Symbolism sub-form, back in April of 2012. She had initiated a thread asking for understanding concerning musical accomplishment when a natal chart shows no indication of such. I gave her some words of encouragement, told her of what Edgar Cayce had to say about "everyone should make music", it's a necessary nourishment for the human soul. Even if all one can do is hum, or play a kazoo, it should be done often, everyday for some folks. I have met people that didn't have any indications of being talented musically, that can play quite marvelously some instrument, sometimes two, or even three. The same goes for those aspiring towards physical achievements, I.e. sports, track and field, skiing, swimming, and the like, that also show no support from their natal charts, that have done well enough to be happy that they kept at it. If you want it badly enough, apply yourself, positive results usually follow.

The thread still exists, somewhere in this forum, in which a few days after I had written a reply to her post, I describe to her a most vivid dream I had just experienced. That was a dream of her. I described her physical appearance, perfectly, and I described the had carved wooden sign that her father had made for her for what was at the time, her chosen vocation of which to make a possible career out of, I.e. Reiki. I knew little to nothing about Reiki, had thought it to be a type of massage, yet I dreamed of her standing in the foyer of an older commercial type store, being renovated, pointing to this sign, hanging from the beam that separated the foyer from the main floor of the store, under which was a large pile of scrap and debris from the remodeling, and after I described all this to her, in a post [that still exists in that thread, where ever it is?] she tells me, "That's me", as to the physical description I gave of the young lady I met in my dream, and then she tells me, "I have that exact same Sign, hand carved from a wooden board, my father made it for me, and it is hanging in my fathers' workshop, on a beam, and below it a pile of scrap". She even posted a photo of the sign on that beam, over a scrap pile.

She got interested in the natal chart I contend is that of Yeshu'a/Jesus, she began writing in response to many of the threads I initiated, especially those on Astrological Parts. We found that we have a most unusual synastry, our composite chart strangely mirrors that natal chart of Yeshu'a. If you read some of the earlier posts in the King of Parts thread I initiated, you'll find her post informing me that the position of my four Hyleg moons, the four syzygys prior to, and post birth, and that the composite chart she made for herself and Yeshu'a, what was derived to be those four Hyleg type Parts, were all in the exact same Signs and degree as the four moons I had just written of. Now, what are the odds of that?

She continued on in great support online here at this forum, we became rather good friends both in our online personas, and in real life, but we never physically met. She is 34 and 5 months my junior, and she made plans to fly out West and finally meet, bought a plane ticket, had her bags packed. I had jut lost a roommate, and had repainted, newly carpeted, the second bedroom of my apt. [private bath] I had even bought a new memory foam mattress, that I was going to keep for myself, but I set it up in that other room, and thought I was ready for the visit... and... I chickened out, so to speak. I had compunctions about letting a woman so young [she was 25 when we first met, and was still yet not 30 at the time, while I was 64 years old.] I did recompense her for the plane fare she had bought. But she has never really forgiven me. She quit participating at the forum not long afterward, and I haven't heard a word from her for about two years now... it might even have been longer.
It's one of the more regrettable things I've done in my life. I just thought that the arrangement, her visiting and staying at an old bachelors' apartment, seemed so improper... despite my being that, as I am often described as, and rather accurately too, an "old hippie". Well, we only loosened up some morals, we didn't just do away with them... most of us didn't, anyways, or at least I sure didn't.

I introduced Phoenix to my clairvoyant friend, Clarisse, and even paid for a "reading" for her. She found out that she was alive, in Israel, when Yeshu'a was alive and knew him quite well, according to Clarisse. Maybe that's why we have that synastry that we do. Why the composite chart she made of herself and Yeshu'a is so uncannily connected to my own natal chart is ways? I'm not at liberty to say whom she had been in the prior incarnation. I've already wrote a bit about who I might have allegedly been... maybe I was, and I have no doubt that she was who Clarisse told her she had been. Clarisse has never been wrong about matters of the past, or the present, before, I've been getting readings from her for over 20 years, now. She's batting 1.000 in that category... I never ask about the future, but that hasn't prevented her from speaking about it... she gets it right some of the time, sometimes it's because the symbolism she sees in her minds eye is something she has difficulty interpreting. I've always thought that it is wrong to inquire about the future in such a way. The Old Testament does seem to frown upon it, yet it does encourage, even recommend, Astrological consulting, not to predict the future, but rather to ascertain the best times to employ certain actions.
When I induced that dream prophecy at the age of 8, it was down so as to predict the highest paying, winning, race horse at a specific track the next day. My dad listened to me tell him of my dream, picked up the racing form, found a horse whose name fit to my dream...and it was the highest paying, winning, race horse at that track for that entire day. Paid $17 and some change for a $2 bet.
I was never able to do it again. I tried, but had no success. Why? Because it just ain't right. I figure that I was allowed to do it one time, so as to aware that I do have that gift, and that the gift would appear on its own accord, at anytime for the rest of my life...as has been my experience.
I was being advised to pay attention to those "vivid dreams", I would get on occasions.
I do hope that you find the time to check out that natal chart I produced for Jesus/Yeshu'a. I think that you won't be disappointed.

 

[piercethevale]

Athenian:

Anyway, my P.O.Spirit is 14 deg. Sagittarius according to the link you posted, yet that is also my P.O.F. I thought. My "fortune" in life hasn't been so hot, so I suppose the good that comes out of P.O.S. for me is the transformation of the trine to Pluto that I've experienced in life from all the suffering. That plus I do have a good sense or humor, a rather dry wit.

To have a Part Of Soul/Spirit conjunct ones Part of Fortune, one must have a Sun/Moon conjunction. That is to say, one is born during a syzgy, and those two Parts will then be conjunct the Asc. As the formula for the deriving the Part of Fortune is, Asc. + Moon - Sun, and the Part of Soul is, Asc. + Sun - Moon, for them to be conjunct natal Parts, the Sun and the Moon have to nullify each other out for those two Parts to arrive at the same Sign and degree, which then is the Asc., as it is all that remains from those two equations.
Is that what is truly going on in your natal chart?

If so, it is kind of similar to the natal chart of Jesus/Yeshu'a, as his Pluto is conj. his Asc., every natal Part that has Pluto as the "Trigger", [I.e. that which is subtracted from the formula, Personal Point + Significator -Trigger], His Asc. being in the Same Sign and degree as is his natal position of Pluto, then all that is left from the equation is the "Significator". Whereas, in your case, the "Personal Point" is the Asc., and the "Significator" is in the same Sign and degree as the "Trigger", then which only remains is the position of the Asc., or just before or after the Asc., if the Sun and the Moon are not exactly conj., as enough of a difference between the two can amount to a Part that falls just shy of, or just beyond, the Asc., too.
In Yeshu'a's case, every one of his natal Parts that has Pluto as the Trigger, amounts to an Astrological Part that is conjunct the same planet that is the Significator.

You can see this for yourself by checking out the thread I initiated about the Astrological Parts derived from that natal chart. They are all listed, here: https://www.astrologyweekly.com/for...-the-april-2-3-c-e-a-d-chart-for-jesus.63464/
That is, from that original natal chart that was generated by astrodienst, in November 2004, which remained, steadily, the same until about eight, or nine, years later when astrodienst moved the position of Pluto.

I do find your genealogy account to be interesting. My mothers' ancestors, Richard and Margaret Hough [she was a direct descendant, a Hough by maiden name] were the first settlers of Bucks Co., Penn. arriving in 1683. They were from Cheshire, England, and Richard [my 9xs great grandfather] was a personal friend of Wm. Penn's. He served a number of terms as a representative in the Assembly of that colony, was a judge and a Justice of the Peace, too. His great grandson, Wm. Hough Jr., whose mother was half Dutch, and had been raised as a Mennonite, fought in the Revolution after declaring himself a "Free Quaker, in 1778, and fought for two Virginia regiments, and was at the Battle of Yorktown. It is from his second wife, the first having died giving birth to a daughter at forty years of age, was a woman that was a Powhatan native American. I'm descended from the third son of that marriage, Wm. Hough III, and from Wm. Hough IV. [four so named in succession] I am the last Free Quaker from that branch of the family tree, my sister and brother aren't particularly religious, but we were all raised in the old time, "Waiting Worship" form of the Quaker faith. We have been shunned from Meetings ever since William Jr. became a Free Quaker, being the reason why the family continued on with the old, original, form of that faith. Being so far removed from that Powhatan 6xs great grandmother, I am only, apprx. of 0.75% Powhatan DNA, or 1/128th. My father was of 100% Italian ancestry, Campania Italian DNA, his parents were from just outside, nearby, Naples, My grandfather arrived in America in 1903, at age 13 with three cents to his name. He managed to prosper and have 9 children, before my grandmother died in 1937. My maternal grandmother [a Willhite] died in 1932, when my mother was but 4 years old. Thus I never got to know either of my grandmothers. To this day, no one in the family is certain what year it was when my paternal grandmother arrived in the United States. It's funny, tragic really, that family history can become lost so quickly. She was a Bovee, Bove in Italy, and being from that region of Italy she may have been descended from Italian royalty. I'll never know, I suppose.

 

[leomoon]

Ironically, we may be related because William Penn is in my family tree - the tree of Quakers in Buck's County and also Philadelphia
who ended up there prior to the Revolution and during the Revolution. We are also related to Ben Franklin, but through his marriage.
It's a small world (as the song goes) "after all". They came over from Germany and other close countries that border Germany in order to pursue a different religion.

see graph:

 

[leomoon]

I think the Sagittarius in the chart as I have as well as Uranus in the 11th exalted in a sense due to it being in an air sign (Gemini) and air house (11th owned by Aquarius - trined to Neptune Quintile the MC points to one being more opened to many cultures and peoples. P.O.Spirit is actually 14 degrees Sag and POF is 29:46 Aquarius. - (with Nocturnal Reverse it's 14 deg. Sag ! Actually, I was born at sunset) as was Joan of Arc, but we didn't have any roosters that crowed -

 

[leomoon]

Geni.com is a great site to look up quickly relatives You just type the person's name then put Geni.com into the search engine you use,
to receive a brief history and if you are related and have a chart already on Geni.com you will see the connection.

Example:

Richard Hough, I

Genealogy profile for Richard Hough, I

www.geni.com

(It has been surmised by several investigators that the John Hough, of Hough, in Cheshire, who came to Pennsylvania in Ninth month, 1683, in the ship "Friendship," of Liverpool, with his wife Hannah and son John, was a brother of Richard Hough

 

[athenian200]

Quite an interesting relationship you had, astrologically speaking. The relationships that really seem to "click" I've found that there's always something interesting, and often unusual, astrologically about the synastry. Have you looked into the use of composite charts? They can be revealing, especially when that other person is drawn to you as per what your Hermetic Lot of Eros implies, for one example. Sometimes they even seem to have been divinely impelled to meet you and then become associated with you in some way that you might take to be a "sign" from above, someone like the woman I met, became intimately associated with her, I even asked for her hand in marriage, but circumstances beyond our control forced us apart. She became the inspiration to search for a natal chart of the date that Edgar Cayce gave, a chart that would have Pluto conj. the Asc. as that was the aspect from her own natal chart that I found to be of such a profound effect upon her. She is the textbook description given by the authors, Sakorian and Archer, in their, "Astrologer's Handbook", in their analysis of the natal aspect; Pluto conjunct the Ascendant.

Ah, no one has ever recommended composite charts before. I've honestly never met anyone that uses them... usually just synastry. Will have to look into that at some point for certain. So, as for the Sabian symbol of my Lot of Eros (Ascendant + Venus - Spirit), here's what I got:

PHASE 230 (SCORPIO 20°): A WOMAN DRAWS AWAY TWO DARK CURTAINS CLOSING THE ENTRANCE TO A SACRED PATHWAY.

KEYNOTE: The revelation to the human consciousness of what lies beyond dualistic knowledge.

The "Woman within" — the faith that is rooted in the deepest intuitions of the soul — is seen here as the hierophant unveiling the realities which the either-or, pro-and-con mind of man alone cannot perceive. The path to the mystic's "unitive life" is opened up once the darkness of fear, egocentricity and dualistic morality is removed.

This is the last symbol of the forty-sixth five-fold sequence. It reveals what a positive reliance upon faith and intuition can bring about. Courage is needed to go through the veiling darkness — the courage to venture beyond the familiar and the traditionally known, to PLUNGE AHEAD INTO THE UNKNOWN.

If I reverse the formula (Ascendant + Spirit - Venus), the result is this one...

PHASE 283 (CAPRICORN 13°): A FIRE WORSHIPER MEDITATES ON THE ULTIMATE REALITIES OF EXISTENCE.

KEYNOTE: The subjective quest for ultimates beyond the interplay of life and death processes.

Beyond cultural enjoyment and the passion for accumulation of often-unusable data of sense knowledge stands the willful and determined "adventure in consciousness" of the occultist, the yogi, the mystic. The mystery of fire has always captured man's imagination because it is the mystery of all transformations wrapped in the enigma of death. In times when collective, perhaps total, death could be in store for mankind, the process of subjective meditation is fascinating an ever-greater number of people.

This is the third symbol in the fifty-seventh sequence. It brings us to a stage beyond life itself. Are we ready to take this step which the masters of yoga claim to have taken: to experience death and return to the same body? Are we ready to demonstrate man's WILL TO TRANSCENDENCE?

The symbolism for Scorpio 20 makes me think of a tarot card, specifically the High Priestess. What's odd is that it seems like when I play with Tarot cards, that card comes up a lot, but usually in spreads it winds up being the card that symbolically represents me or my role in a situation, rather than a person I'm interested in. So, the Sabian symbol doesn't seem to help immediately upon first glance. It doesn't seem to have any particular connection with her chart or mine, honestly.

As for Capricorn 13, well... it does seem like a lot of philosophically and spiritually minded people are drawn to me, so that kind of makes sense for the reverse lot of Eros.

Forum member, Phoenix Venus, and I also have a very unusual synastry. I met her when I made a rare venture outside of the Degree Symbolism sub-form, back in April of 2012. She had initiated a thread asking for understanding concerning musical accomplishment when a natal chart shows no indication of such. I gave her some words of encouragement, told her of what Edgar Cayce had to say about "everyone should make music", it's a necessary nourishment for the human soul. Even if all one can do is hum, or play a kazoo, it should be done often, everyday for some folks. I have met people that didn't have any indications of being talented musically, that can play quite marvelously some instrument, sometimes two, or even three. The same goes for those aspiring towards physical achievements, I.e. sports, track and field, skiing, swimming, and the like, that also show no support from their natal charts, that have done well enough to be happy that they kept at it. If you want it badly enough, apply yourself, positive results usually follow.

I have to admit, I was curious about the story of what happened between you and Phoenix Venus... I vaguely remember her being a forum member and interacting with you a lot. I wasn't going to ask, because I didn't think it was my place, but I am glad you told me regardless. I had a feeling there might have been a falling out between you two, so thanks for confirming my intuition on that.

The thread still exists, somewhere in this forum, in which a few days after I had written a reply to her post, I describe to her a most vivid dream I had just experienced. That was a dream of her. I described her physical appearance, perfectly, and I described the had carved wooden sign that her father had made for her for what was at the time, her chosen vocation of which to make a possible career out of, I.e. Reiki. [...]

If you read some of the earlier posts in the King of Parts thread I initiated, you'll find her post informing me that the position of my four Hyleg moons, the four syzygys prior to, and post birth, and that the composite chart she made for herself and Yeshu'a, what was derived to be those four Hyleg type Parts, were all in the exact same Signs and degree as the four moons I had just written of. Now, what are the odds of that?

That is some pretty impressive psychic phenomena you describe. It definitely sounds like there was something fated about that connection, for sure.

It's one of the more regrettable things I've done in my life. I just thought that the arrangement, her visiting and staying at an old bachelors' apartment, seemed so improper... despite my being that, as I am often described as, and rather accurately too, an "old hippie". Well, we only loosened up some morals, we didn't just do away with them... most of us didn't, anyways, or at least I sure didn't.

I totally get why you didn't like that situation. People might assume the worst if an unrelated man and a woman that talk a lot and seem to have a spiritual bond are staying together alone. Even if you weren't... doing anything, people would talk, and it might affect her chances with future boyfriends if she gets that kind of reputation. James is nodding in approval in my head at your last-minute decision to cancel, and thinks you acted as a proper Englishman in the end, if that helps.

I introduced Phoenix to my clairvoyant friend, Clarisse, and even paid for a "reading" for her. She found out that she was alive, in Israel, when Yeshu'a was alive and knew him quite well, according to Clarisse. Maybe that's why we have that synastry that we do.

Ah, yeah, I remember you mentioning her. You must have thought quite highly of Phoenix to have someone of Clarisse's caliber do a reading for her, and it appears you were right to do so. I happened to look her name up on YouTube, and it appears she's quite famous.

She gets it right some of the time, sometimes it's because the symbolism she sees in her minds eye is something she has difficulty interpreting. I've always thought that it is wrong to inquire about the future in such a way.

Yeah, I think the problem with predicting the future is that it only predicts likely trends, and you can only learn about it in symbols and riddles. I don't consciously try to predict the future, but visions of it come unbidden whether I want them or not. Most of the time I feel like I'd rather not know, what I learn is usually stuff I'm powerless to stop.

I do hope that you find the time to check out that natal chart I produced for Jesus/Yeshu'a. I think that you won't be disappointed.

The first thing that's a bit shocking to me is that the chart is cast for April 2nd. That's my Aunt's birthday, and mine is April 1st. So if that's correct, my Aunt has the same birthday as Jesus, with mine only a day off. I've always been known as the April Fool's baby half-jokingly.

Come to think of it, April 2nd is also the date of my postnatal full moon, or what I call my postsyzygy. So while I was born with Aries sun opposing Libra moon, the full moon aspect wasn't exact enough to be a syzygy until April 2nd. It appears that the timing of Jesus's birth was perfect to ensure he did not have a Libra moon, which I can tell you from experience likely would have made his mission harder.

 

[piercethevale]

I think the Sagittarius in the chart as I have as well as Uranus in the 11th exalted in a sense due to it being in an air sign (Gemini) and air house (11th owned by Aquarius - trined to Neptune Quintile the MC points to one being more opened to many cultures and peoples. P.O.Spirit is actually 14 degrees Sag and POF is 29:46 Aquarius. - (with Nocturnal Reverse it's 14 deg. Sag ! Actually, I was born at sunset) as was Joan of Arc, but we didn't have any roosters that crowed -

I only believe that the "Day formula" to be the correct one to use. I was also born at Sunset, maybe a skoosh later, as my Desc. is in the 18th degree of Taurus and my Sun less than a full degree before, in the 17th degree. But modern science has shown that we still see the Sun above the horizon even though it is actually below it, due to the atmospheric distortion of optics. Which is another reason why the switching from day to night formula for the Part of Fortune and that of Spirit is, what I believe, to be nonsense.

The Sabian Symbol for my PoF is relative to my entire life, from day one. It is symbolic of what I needed to employ from that day onward. My PoS Sabian Symbol is only relevant to the year I turned 54 years old, possibly a year or two prior, but it certainly wasn't something I had an understanding about, nor could I have understood how, or why, to employ it prior to that time.

The Part of Soul, is a Part that, I have tentatively concluded to be what we eventually come to realize about our own Soul. I see it as an answer to "why" our soul is incarnate in the present lifetime. The PoS I derived from that natal chart for Yeshu'a also indicates that... at least that is the way that I "see" it. That "seeing" being only possible because of my studies of the Edgar Cayce readings. Whom said that the soul of Yeshu'a and that of his mother, were two halves of the same soul and also why a virgin is able to produce a son. He said that is only possible when the son born possesses the other half of the soul of the mother. We, according to Cayce, all possess just half of a complete soul, and it is a male or a female half.
That Sabian Symbol for Yeshu'a's PoS is in the 14th degree of Aries. [ibid.]
"
ARIES 14°: A SERPENT COILING NEAR A MAN AND A WOMAN.

KEYNOTE: Identification in bipolar relationship with the impersonal rhythm of natural energy.

The symbol for Phase 4 pictures a man and a woman in love walking together. At this new and more mentally stimulated level of experience and consciousness, a third factor appears: the serpent, whose coiling represents the spiral-like process of evolution - not merely 'sex' according to the maker of cathartic symbols, Sigmund Freud. We can understand this 'triangular' image — man, woman and the serpent — if we relate it to the preceding one in the series, the unexploded bomb of the anarchist or activist. The urge to blow up some structure which somehow has become in the activist's mind a symbol of the Establishment — the ruling elite — is usually the protest of an alienated and often immature mind that refuses relationship, because in the relationship he would occupy a subservient position. In this symbol, the serpent represents the acceptance of relationship by the two polarized human beings.

There must be a polarization before there can be fulfillment. The tragedy of so many contemporary lives is that, having become sharply individualized, the men and women cannot find their truly matching polar-opposite. Because they are not fulfilled at the root level of human emotions and vitalistic forces, they pass their lives seeking the ideal complement, often glamorized as the 'soul mate'. This search can find its expression at several levels. At the mystical level we have the examples of the 'spiritual marriage' of Saint Francis of Assisi and Santa Clara, or recently of Sri Aurobindo and Mother Mira.

The Adam and Eve story (in Hebrew, Ish and Isha - much more significant names!) refers to this principle of polarization, although the story has been turned upside down by priestly intellects to serve their purposes. Adam and Eve accepted the Presence, not of the Tempter, but of the Individualizer, who sought to have them born out of the womb of unconscious passivity to Nature's God. But the result of the experience frightened them. They 'hid'; they failed in the great test of individualization, and in this sense the archetype of that failure is deeply imbedded in man's generic unconscious. It is repeated time after time.

Modern 'individuals' are confronted with another test, but they do not understand its meaning. It is the test of polarized conscious participation in the evolutionary process - a polarization that could dissolve alienation, isolation and egocentricity. In a sense at least, this was the old Tantric concept in India; but today many young people accept the concept only superficially and miss its real essence. They cannot understand the meaning of entering into the serpent, i.e. of developing eonic consciousness and that transpersonal living which once was characterized by the words: Not I live, but Christ lives me - Christ, whose symbolic number in Gnosticism is 888.

At this fourth stage of the third five-fold sequence, we are confronted with an image suggesting the transpersonal way to the 'cosmification' of desire and the conscious acceptance of polarization as the solution of the problems generated by individualization. But this need not mean what is currently meant by 'sex' and the glorification of the orgasm. It implies rather the RITUALIZATION OF RELATIONSHIP."

Cayce said that the same souls that had been Adam and Eve, in the Bible, are the same souls that incarnated as Yeshu'a/Jesus and Mariam/Mary.
Interestingly, to me, is that the natal chart of the woman I met, and inspired me to use Pluto on the Asc. to look into what happened on that event the day that Edgar gave for the birth of the Nazarene, produces the composite Venus she and I share. We were intimate and I asked her to marry me, but circumstances drove us apart. I asked my clairvoyant friend if she could see if the two of us were "soul mates", and her reply is "I think so"... she can't always interpret what it is that she does see, but apparently it was convincing enough to say that.

With that bit of information, I used Cayce's account of how old Mariam was when she was pregnant [16], the age at which she was introduced to, and the age at marriage [16], the age at which she gave birth [17], to construct a window of time when she possibly was born, and then looked to see if I could find Venus in the Sign and degree that would come out to the 14th degree of Aries in a composite chart with that of Yeshu'a's. What was produced is very interesting, profound even, in that the chart has a Magen David, I.e. a Grand Semi-Sextile complete, but for one point. As the reason the Jews give for the acceptance of one so born to be considered to be the "messiah", it is food for thought.
My original intent, in the search to find the natal chart of Yeshu'a/Jesus, was to search through a 20 year window of time [10 B.C. to 10 A.D.] to see if there was a time when there was such a configuration that happened. That there is one point not occupied, in that chart, which doesn't necessarily mean that it wasn't. I believe that there are at least two more planets yet to be discovered. Clairvoyant, Clarisse, confirmed that indeed there is, at least one, but it isn't on the ecliptic plane. From a reading I got back in early 2012, concerning myself, as it was in May of that year that the 7 points of a 12 pt. matrix on my natal chart, was completed as to four of the five missing points, that is by what is known to exist. She said that there was a planet that was going to occupy, or acceptably by orb of influence, the 22nd degree of Virgo, but it was well below the ecliptic, that is towards the South. She explained that astrology works sort of like that 3 D chess that was played in those Star Trek episodes.
By the way, she also said that Pluto is unquestionably a planet.

The Quaker faith did originate in Germanic lands, but not all Quakers were German, or even had German ancestry. The lineage of the Hough's, however, is presently attributed to the Normans. ...and the great grandfather of mine that fought in the Revolution did have a half Dutch mother who was a Mennonite. Have you ever heard of the Mennonite Bishop, Christian Funk and, or, the "Funkites"?
I believe that great grandfather, of mine, heard one of the Bishop's appeals to Mennonite congregations.

 

[athenian200]

Athenian:

Ha ha ha about the "long winded" responses. I thought I was long winded! I was wrong.

Anyway, my P.O.Spirit is 14 deg. Sagittarius according to the link you posted, yet that is also my P.O.F. I thought. My "fortune" in life hasn't been so hot, so I suppose the good that comes out of P.O.S. for me is the transformation of the trine to Pluto that I've experienced in life from all the suffering. That plus I do have a good sense or humor, a rather dry wit.

Sorry I only just got around to replying to you. But yeah, I feel like very little actually activates my own Part of Fortune, so I get what you mean.

Noting your Ancestry....I did the DNA thing too, and started a thread here . Like you, from England Scotland & Wales plus Germany and points near there. Over to America both prior to the Revolution and during the Revolution. They were Quakers and settled on the East Coast invited by William Penn. The British portion of the family is a totally weird happenstance. I told my husband that IF my Indian forefathers (a great grandparent) had not kidnapped a British child as he was out "berrying" as they called picking berries in the spring in Massachusetts and N.H. than he and I would never have met. See, both my husband and I turned out to be "cousins" something like 5th or 6th generation cousins. While I am related to Edgar Cayce's English side of the family via the paternal side he is related to Cayce' maternal side from England. My husband is easier, as ALL his relatives are from England (except for one or two from Scotland) otherwise, all English from what I've found. Mine are all over the place.

That's really cool that you're related to Edgar Cayce! What are the odds of that, right? Also interesting that you're descended from people taken captive by Indians, for sure. I will have to ask my Aunt more about my own ancestry with regards to specific stories like that, the fact is I wasn't willing to pay the monthly fee to see all of that stuff, so I only have my DNA results. She has compiled a lot about our family history on there, but I can't see most of it because it's behind a paywall. I do know from a school project a while back that I'm related to the Worthy family in particular, though.

Anyway, slightly more on the original topic of the thread...

I was looking over that chart for Jesus a bit more to see if I have much connection with it... it's fascinating to my mind, that the antiscia points for his Sun and Moon fall into the same signs as each other (because Aries and Virgo are antiscia).

It appears his Part of Sentiment (Ascendant + Venus - Jupiter) and my Part of Spirit are both at Sagittarius 25 (the hobby horse degree). And as you said before, his Part of Inheritance and Legacy (Ascendant + Moon - Saturn) are the same as my Radix Vitae/Hyleg at Sagittarius 22 (the Chinese laundry degree). Those are the biggest ones.

My own Part of Sentiment is actually conjunct his Part of Repression (Ascendant + Saturn - Pluto) at Cancer 9 (the naked girl bending over that makes me think of the Star tarot card).

My Part of Distress/Ancestors & Relations (Ascendant + Mars - Saturn), is conjunct his Part of Identity at Cancer 10 (the large diamond).

If I didn't know better, I'd think I might be distantly related to this guy... parts that seem vaguely/potentially related to ancestry keep coming up here. Did Joseph of Arimathea actually go to England and build a church there? Because as British as my lineage is, with only 2% Jewish DNA, that is the only way I have that kind of connection to Christ. If his family members wound up in the British Isles after all.

 

[piercethevale]

Geni.com is a great site to look up quickly relatives You just type the person's name then put Geni.com into the search engine you use,
to receive a brief history and if you are related and have a chart already on Geni.com you will see the connection.

Example:

Richard Hough, I

Genealogy profile for Richard Hough, I

www.geni.com

(It has been surmised by several investigators that the John Hough, of Hough, in Cheshire, who came to Pennsylvania in Ninth month, 1683, in the ship "Friendship," of Liverpool, with his wife Hannah and son John, was a brother of Richard Hough

Thanks for that information. I hadn't heard of John Hough before. I have used Geni but I haven't done any research in this matter in quite a number of years. It was 2nd cousin, once removed, from my maternal side, that became a Mormon, that spiked my interest. Years ago it was a cause for such research as the son of Richard, also named John, was married to [a great grandmother] Elizabeth Taylor, and James Madison had an aunt by the same name. [that woman was also related to Zachary Taylor and Zachary's daughter was married to Jefferson Davis, the president of the Confederacy] Alas, it turned out that she wasn't the same woman, and she was of Irish ancestry, from the Donegal region, and thus not of the Protestant faith. But, I did eventually find one of the descendants from William Hough Jr.'s first wife. She was living in Virginia, was around 80 to 90 years of age, possibly older, [this was in the late 00's] and she had her own website which proudly displayed both the U.S. and the Confederate flag. She had wrote on that website that she remembered when she was a little girl and sat on the knee of a great uncle, or a grandparent, that had fought for the South, in the Civil War. She remembered a lot of accounts he told about the war and to her, it seemed, the war wasn't really over. Kind of embarrassing, and I never tried to contact her. I did however discover other distant cousins.
One of Richards sons, or grandsons, knew George Washington and it's known that Washington slept over in his home, I.e. Hough Manor.

 

[piercethevale]

Sorry I only just got around to replying to you. But yeah, I feel like very little actually activates my own Part of Fortune, so I get what you mean.


That's really cool that you're related to Edgar Cayce! What are the odds of that, right? Also interesting that you're descended from people taken captive by Indians, for sure. I will have to ask my Aunt more about my own ancestry with regards to specific stories like that, the fact is I wasn't willing to pay the monthly fee to see all of that stuff, so I only have my DNA results. She has compiled a lot about our family history on there, but I can't see most of it because it's behind a paywall. I do know from a school project a while back that I'm related to the Worthy family in particular, though.

Anyway, slightly more on the original topic of the thread...

I was looking over that chart for Jesus a bit more to see if I have much connection with it... it's fascinating to my mind, that the antiscia points for his Sun and Moon fall into the same signs as each other (because Aries and Virgo are antiscia).

It appears his Part of Sentiment (Ascendant + Venus - Jupiter) and my Part of Spirit are both at Sagittarius 25 (the hobby horse degree). And as you said before, his Part of Inheritance and Legacy (Ascendant + Moon - Saturn) are the same as my Radix Vitae/Hyleg at Sagittarius 22 (the Chinese laundry degree). Those are the biggest ones.

My own Part of Sentiment is actually conjunct his Part of Repression (Ascendant + Saturn - Pluto) at Cancer 9 (the naked girl bending over that makes me think of the Star tarot card).

My Part of Distress/Ancestors & Relations (Ascendant + Mars - Saturn), is conjunct his Part of Identity at Cancer 10 (the large diamond).

If I didn't know better, I'd think I might be distantly related to this guy... parts that seem vaguely/potentially related to ancestry keep coming up here. Did Joseph of Arimathea actually go to England and build a church there? Because as British as my lineage is, with only 2% Jewish DNA, that is the only way I have that kind of connection to Christ. If his family members wound up in the British Isles after all.

Joseph [Yosef] of Arimathea, and James, [Yakov] biological half brother of Jesus/Yeshu'a, are a subject of great discussion in the book, "The Cup of Destiny". He and James allegedly, so some say, I think probably undoubtedly, came to the area of modern day Glastonbury in, or around, the year 42 A.D., settled there and took local women for wives. According to Rudolf Steiner, the reincarnated Parsival must be of that lineage. That lineage, accord to Steiner, is particularly affected by Astrological forces. That would then be the House of David. Joseph was the biological brother of Mariam/Mary, the "Virgin Mary", The Vatican did finally admit, sometime in the late 1990's or early 00's, that the true first church of Christianity was that which the two of them established there in the area of modern day Glastonbury. The hill there is said to be the "Home of the Fairy King", Oberon... and there are a lot of stories, legends, tales, whatever...about that hill, believed to have been the site of Avalon, and that it being the home of the Fairy King. Those that concern the faeries are very, very, strange. But, that comes with that "territory". I have a few of my own concerning faeries. I even have a thread about that in the "chat forum".

 

[leomoon]

That's really cool that you're related to Edgar Cayce! What are the odds of that, right? Also interesting that you're descended from people taken captive by Indians, for sure

Actually, my heritage from my maternal side is the Abanaki - Iroquois tribe of Indians ironically. The kidnapping of the British child simply put me in connection via DNA with my husband's family eventually. So my distant relatives were the kidnappers!

Here is the Cayce connections. I've been interested in him and the A.R.E. for over 60 yrs., so all my life. Still involved I suppose it's fate.
(me from Cayce's paternal side - my husband from Cayce's maternal side of his family)

Had the Indians not kidnapped the British child I don't think this would be so but I'm not certain as to how and where we became distant cousins elsewhere. But the physical geographical location (N/E America) of my maternal side (the Indians and French side) all lived in the same area as his paternal side of his family - i.e. Mass, N.H. Maine, etc.

It appears to me that our Part of Spirit is in the same sign - Aquarius, although not conjunct. His 03 deg. Mine 29 deg.

 

[piercethevale]

Actually, my heritage from my maternal side is the Abanaki - Iroquois tribe of Indians ironically. The kidnapping of the British child simply put me in connection via DNA with my husband's family eventually. So my distant relatives were the kidnappers!

Here is the Cayce connections. I've been interested in him and the A.R.E. for over 60 yrs., so all my life. Still involved I suppose it's fate.
(me from Cayce's paternal side - my husband from Cayce's maternal side of his family)

Had the Indians not kidnapped the British child I don't think this would be so but I'm not certain as to how and where we became distant cousins elsewhere. But the physical geographical location (N/E America) of my maternal side (the Indians and French side) all lived in the same area as his paternal side of his family - i.e. Mass, N.H. Maine, etc.

It appears to me that our Part of Spirit is in the same sign - Aquarius, although not conjunct. His 03 deg. Mine 29 deg.

That really cool to have another member in this forum that is also so aware of the readings and life of Edgar Cayce. I've been studying for over 60 years myself.
When my mom died I inherited a small library of material, books, pamphlets, and such. There are also a great many monthly A.R.E. Journals, complete years, from the early/mid 1970's to the early '80's [I think it is, or at least up to 1980] that my mom subscribed to, and kept in pristine condition, They are pamphlets, back when the A.R.E. had it's **** together, when Hugh Lynn Cayce was "large and in charge", and they really put effort into such matters, and had many authors that wrote in those Journals that were well studied in the readings. Unlike the present where all I find is self promotion type announcements, Even offers for services that Cayce would have frowned upon [Free natal chart analysis with a years membership, of the very type of Astrology practiced that Cayce said to avoid, for one example ] Some that still have the envelopes, with cover letter, they were sent in. I have read them, and not knowing how long I have myself, now that I'm over 71, I've been wanting to find a home for them. Someone that has use for them, an organization, or a library. A Cayce study group would be wonderful. If you are interested in having them, [that is if you don't have the same already?] or know of someone else, some organization, library, or group that would. Let me know and I'll ship them to you, or them. They fit in a box about the size of two shoeboxes.

I might even donate all the books that I still have to the same upon my own passing. I still have use for those. I do kind of regret having loaned a few books out... loaned books rarely return, about as often as money loaned does too. Like, forget about it... In my entire life I've only had one book returned to me that I loaned out. I have been a little bit more fortunate with the money that I've loaned, but not that much more.

 

[athenian200]

So, there was one really big overlap with the Jesus chart that jumped out at me...

His Part of Self-Sacrifice (Ascendant + Venus - Pluto), is the same my Part of Tragedy/Fatality (Ascendant + Saturn - Sun). Additionally, on the same degree, is my Part of Debate (Ascendant + Mars - Jupiter). It's all happening on the 7th degree of Pisces.

PHASE 337 (PISCES 7°): ILLUMINED BY A SHAFT OF LIGHT, A LARGE CROSS LIES ON ROCKS SURROUNDED BY SEA MIST.

KEYNOTE: The spiritual blessing which strengthens individuals who, happen what may, stand uncompromisingly for their own truth.

Men who do not depend upon collective values, traditions or support but seek at any cost to be true to their individual self and destiny almost inevitably face some kind of crucifixion. They are sustained only by the power within them, to which a light above answers. The symbol tells us: "Be true to thine own self, and in the midst of the outer confusion displayed by those surrounding you, you will realize what you really are as an Individual — a son of God."

This second stage symbol presents us with a realization in polar opposition to that evoked by the preceding scene. It implies the supreme worth of a life guided by an inner voice and manifesting a high degree of SELF-ASSERTION.

That is by far the most bizarre one out of all that I've seen so far... it actually seems like kind of a puzzle figuring out how the self-sacrifice of Jesus would be something that I, as an individual, might see as a tragedy or something to debate about. I don't want to go into too much detail on this thread, but to sum it up rather crudely in a way few will understand... I have an unprovable belief that Christ was inspired by the example of Socrates, and sought to do for Jewish and Roman society more broadly something very much like what Socrates did for Athenian society long before him. You won't really understand why, unless you're familiar with Plato's theory of forms, the allegory of the cave, and also the trial of Socrates. But if you look at that, and then look back at Christianity, especially at Gnostic Christianity... well, either you see it or you don't.

It is really interesting that Edgar Cayce also believes Gnostic Christianity to be the closest to what Christ originally taught, even though most Christians see it as heresy. I get the feeling I should probably learn more about Cayce, for sure.