Arabic Parts I noticed in my chart.

[athenian200]

So, I started looking at a list of Arabic parts and seeing if any of them were at locations that stand out in my chart. I used this site to generate them:

Arabic Lots (Parts) - Universal Astrology Online Calculator

www.Astro-Seek.com - Seek and meet people born on the same date as you

horoscopes.astro-seek.com

Ascendant: Gemini 15*43'

Part of Peril II/Most Dangerous Year: Gemini 15*46'

The first one I noticed was that my Ascendant degree is the same as my Part of Peril/Most Dangerous year, at roughly 16 Gemini. When thinking about this, I recall that I was born via C-Section and the doctors supposedly had to wake me up so I would start breathing. Apparently my parents were told they had to watch my breathing for the first year to make sure I didn't stop when I fell asleep, because I wasn't able to do it automatically while sleeping yet, but apparently was breathing while conscious. So the "most dangerous year" for me might well have been my first one. So basically, my Part of Peril was on the Eastern Horizon at the time of my birth.

Sun: Aries 12*05'

Part of Art: Aries 12*04'

Part of Venture: Aries 12*04'

This is the part of me that is responsible for me tending to think up really far-fetched ideas and go down intellectual rabbit holes hoping to discover or salvage something that isn't likely to lead me anywhere, but I pursue it simply because of the hope that it might. If I take the names at face value, it suggests it's the part of me that tries to scheme and either comes up with or follows others on odd ventures that have a low chance of success. In my case mostly nerdy, impractical ones, which is why I don't seem like a typical Aries sun kind of person.

Moon: Libra 03*19'

Part of Lovers: Libra 03*42'

Part of Needs & Desires: Libra 03*01'

This seems to reinforce the obvious symbolism associated with having a 5th house Moon in Libra to begin with... the one person in my life that I had chemistry with also had a Libra moon. Can't really think of any other significance to add beyond this.

Midheaven: Aquarius 20*06'

Part of Cancer & Malignancy: Aquarius 20*36'

Well, I never seem to succeed at anything career or job-related, and plus my Midheaven being on my Part of Cancer & Malignancy here oddly matches with the themes of my ascending degree somehow being connected to my Part of Peril. In some ways, my failures and insecurities with regards to employment do feel like an albatross around my neck, a sort of cancerous growth on my soul that has made me feel inadequate somehow.

Mercury: Pisces 24*16'
Part of Merchandise I: Pisces 24*34'

This version of the part is Ascendant + Moon - Part of Fortune. It doesn't really add any symbolism to my chart, because Mercury itself is already associated with buying/selling merchandise, but it's interesting that this Arabic Part that's presumably connected with commercial activity somehow lines up with my natal Mercury so well, even though Mercury isn't used in the calculation at all. What little money I've brought in for myself over the years has mostly come from selling off childhood things I have a sentimental attachment to on eBay, so I guess that counts as base-level expression of Mercury in Pisces as well as this Arabic Part? I usually think of Mercury as more related to the mind than to trading goods, but this reminds me it can be both.

Venus: Taurus 27*55'
Part of Communication & Commerce: Taurus 27*54'

The part has several names with similar implications. All are the result of Ascendant + Mercury - Sun. So according to Arabic Parts, I also get wealth through communication with those I'm drawn to naturally. This makes sense because the main way I obtain money or goods is by asking family members for things, or sometimes by convincing people I've done favors for in the past to provide a service for me because I'm not well-off enough to buy it myself. Presumably the Venus conjunction suggests I am able to do this because I'm good at persuading people that are close to me or who I might have past life connections with?

Mars: Capricorn 26*26'
N/A

This is the first planet I've noticed that doesn't have a single Arabic Part on the same degree.

Jupiter: Taurus 05*16'
N/A

Same as Mars, no Arabic Parts on the same degree.

Saturn: Capricorn 02*28'
N/A

Same as Jupiter and Mars, no Arabic Parts... this is a lot more common than I thought at first, everything was working as I started writing this.

Uranus: Capricorn 01*02'
N/A

No Arabic parts to show.

Neptune: Capricorn 10*10'
N/A

Nothing...

Pluto: Scorpio 11*59'
Part of Union/Marriage/Son-in-Law: Scorpio 11*10'

The part has several names, but all of them are are Ascendant + Venus - Saturn, and are vaguely related to marriage somehow. Nothing to really say here, except that the one person I have actually felt a connection with has a Scorpio Ascendant one degree away from here, and we've remained close although this person married someone else. It makes me wonder if the possibility exists that they could still get divorced, come back to me, and we would wind up raising the child they had together...

North Node: Pisces 22*19'
Part of Astrology: Pisces 22*29'

That seems to suggest my life path may in some way be linked with astrology, which isn't too far-fetched of an idea given that Pisces is associated with spirtual/mystical experiences, and Mercury is in Pisces suggesting I analyze those things with my rational mind.

Chiron: Gemini 23*51'
Part of Caution: Gemini 23*24'

This is really interesting and suggests that the "wound" hinted at by Chiron is something I should exercise caution surrounding. I don't know exactly what this part is meant to indicate, but given that it's Ascendant + Neptune - Saturn, it seems like it's suggesting that the reason I should exercise "caution" is because I could be led astray by illusions into difficult and restrictive situations.

Lilith: Leo 25*18'
N/A

Another empty one.

Part of Fortune: Sagittarius 6*58'
Anereta II: Sagittarius 6*40'
Expected Birth: Sagittaruius 6*40'
Faith & Religion: Sagittarius 6*40'
Friends II: Sagittarius 6*40'
Modesty: Sagittarius 6*40'
Prejudice: Sagittarius 6*40'
Religion II: Sagittarius 6*40'
Worldliness: Sagittarius 6*40'

A bunch of things show up on the same degree as Part of Fortune, though interestingly they don't all use the same formula. Worldliness is Ascendant + Venus - Fortune. Most of the rest of them are Ascendant + Mercury - Moon. Some of the others are technically Ascendant + Ascendant's Ruler - Moon, but since my Ascendant's ruler is Mercury, they all coincide here. What's interesting is that a lot of vaguely religious themes show up here (or at least things arguably associated with attending a typical church), and this is actually in Sagittarius, so the symbolism is pretty clear.

Vertex: Scorpio 08*22'
N/A

Nothing here.

This hasn't given me a lot of new insight into myself yet, but it seems like I'm definitely getting a better handle on what the main personal planets mean here if nothing else. The main thing that jumps out at me is that the Ascendant and the Chiron in 1st house are associated with Caution and Peril, which doesn't sound great... but also somehow makes sense to me.

 

[JUPITERASC]

So, I started looking at a list of Arabic parts and seeing if any of them were at locations that stand out in my chart. I used this site to generate them:

Lot formula

• Lot = Personal Point + Significator - Trigger
• Lot Formulas List
  

Customize your Lot formula with:

• ASC, DSC, MC, IC
• Any Planet, House Cusp, House Ruler
• Lot of Fortune, Spirit, Eros
• Syzygy (Full or New Moon prior to birth)
• Some particular °Degrees

Optional:

• House system, Traditional/Modern rulership
• Calculates all 446 Lots at once

Arabic Lots (Parts) - Universal Astrology Online Calculator

www.Astro-Seek.com - Seek and meet people born on the same date as you

horoscopes.astro-seek.com

View attachment 113405

Ascendant: Gemini 15*43'

Part of Peril II/Most Dangerous Year: Gemini 15*46'

The first one I noticed was that my Ascendant degree is the same as my Part of Peril/Most Dangerous year, at roughly 16 Gemini. When thinking about this, I recall that I was born via C-Section and the doctors supposedly had to wake me up so I would start breathing. Apparently my parents were told they had to watch my breathing for the first year to make sure I didn't stop when I fell asleep, because I wasn't able to do it automatically while sleeping yet, but apparently was breathing while conscious. So the "most dangerous year" for me might well have been my first one. So basically, my Part of Peril was on the Eastern Horizon at the time of my birth.

Sun: Aries 12*05'

Part of Art: Aries 12*04'

Part of Venture: Aries 12*04'

This is the part of me that is responsible for me tending to think up really far-fetched ideas and go down intellectual rabbit holes hoping to discover or salvage something that isn't likely to lead me anywhere, but I pursue it simply because of the hope that it might. If I take the names at face value, it suggests it's the part of me that tries to scheme and either comes up with or follows others on odd ventures that have a low chance of success. In my case mostly nerdy, impractical ones, which is why I don't seem like a typical Aries sun kind of person.

Moon: Libra 03*19'

Part of Lovers: Libra 03*42'

Part of Needs & Desires: Libra 03*01'

This seems to reinforce the obvious symbolism associated with having a 5th house Moon in Libra to begin with... the one person in my life that I had chemistry with also had a Libra moon. Can't really think of any other significance to add beyond this.

Midheaven: Aquarius 20*06'

Part of Cancer & Malignancy: Aquarius 20*36'

Well, I never seem to succeed at anything career or job-related, and plus my Midheaven being on my Part of Cancer & Malignancy here oddly matches with the themes of my ascending degree somehow being connected to my Part of Peril. In some ways, my failures and insecurities with regards to employment do feel like an albatross around my neck, a sort of cancerous growth on my soul that has made me feel inadequate somehow.

Mercury: Pisces 24*16'
Part of Merchandise I: Pisces 24*34'

This version of the part is Ascendant + Moon - Part of Fortune. It doesn't really add any symbolism to my chart, because Mercury itself is already associated with buying/selling merchandise, but it's interesting that this Arabic Part that's presumably connected with commercial activity somehow lines up with my natal Mercury so well, even though Mercury isn't used in the calculation at all. What little money I've brought in for myself over the years has mostly come from selling off childhood things I have a sentimental attachment to on eBay, so I guess that counts as base-level expression of Mercury in Pisces as well as this Arabic Part? I usually think of Mercury as more related to the mind than to trading goods, but this reminds me it can be both.

Venus: Taurus 27*55'
Part of Communication & Commerce: Taurus 27*54'

The part has several names with similar implications. All are the result of Ascendant + Mercury - Sun. So according to Arabic Parts, I also get wealth through communication with those I'm drawn to naturally. This makes sense because the main way I obtain money or goods is by asking family members for things, or sometimes by convincing people I've done favors for in the past to provide a service for me because I'm not well-off enough to buy it myself. Presumably the Venus conjunction suggests I am able to do this because I'm good at persuading people that are close to me or who I might have past life connections with?

Mars: Capricorn 26*26'
N/A

This is the first planet I've noticed that doesn't have a single Arabic Part on the same degree.

Jupiter: Taurus 05*16'
N/A

Same as Mars, no Arabic Parts on the same degree.

Saturn: Capricorn 02*28'
N/A

Same as Jupiter and Mars, no Arabic Parts... this is a lot more common than I thought at first, everything was working as I started writing this.

Uranus: Capricorn 01*02'
N/A

No Arabic parts to show.

Neptune: Capricorn 10*10'
N/A

Nothing...

Pluto: Scorpio 11*59'
Part of Union/Marriage/Son-in-Law: Scorpio 11*10'

The part has several names, but all of them are are Ascendant + Venus - Saturn, and are vaguely related to marriage somehow. Nothing to really say here, except that the one person I have actually felt a connection with has a Scorpio Ascendant one degree away from here, and we've remained close although this person married someone else. It makes me wonder if the possibility exists that they could still get divorced, come back to me, and we would wind up raising the child they had together...

North Node: Pisces 22*19'
Part of Astrology: Pisces 22*29'

That seems to suggest my life path may in some way be linked with astrology, which isn't too far-fetched of an idea given that Pisces is associated with spirtual/mystical experiences, and Mercury is in Pisces suggesting I analyze those things with my rational mind.

Chiron: Gemini 23*51'
Part of Caution: Gemini 23*24'

This is really interesting and suggests that the "wound" hinted at by Chiron is something I should exercise caution surrounding. I don't know exactly what this part is meant to indicate, but given that it's Ascendant + Neptune - Saturn, it seems like it's suggesting that the reason I should exercise "caution" is because I could be led astray by illusions into difficult and restrictive situations.

Lilith: Leo 25*18'
N/A

Another empty one.

Part of Fortune: Sagittarius 6*58'
Anereta II: Sagittarius 6*40'
Expected Birth: Sagittaruius 6*40'
Faith & Religion: Sagittarius 6*40'
Friends II: Sagittarius 6*40'
Modesty: Sagittarius 6*40'
Prejudice: Sagittarius 6*40'
Religion II: Sagittarius 6*40'
Worldliness: Sagittarius 6*40'

A bunch of things show up on the same degree as Part of Fortune, though interestingly they don't all use the same formula. Worldliness is Ascendant + Venus - Fortune. Most of the rest of them are Ascendant + Mercury - Moon. Some of the others are technically Ascendant + Ascendant's Ruler - Moon, but since my Ascendant's ruler is Mercury, they all coincide here. What's interesting is that a lot of vaguely religious themes show up here (or at least things arguably associated with attending a typical church), and this is actually in Sagittarius, so the symbolism is pretty clear.

Vertex: Scorpio 08*22'
N/A

Nothing here.

This hasn't given me a lot of new insight into myself yet, but it seems like I'm definitely getting a better handle on what the main personal planets mean here if nothing else. The main thing that jumps out at me is that the Ascendant and the Chiron in 1st house are associated with Caution and Peril, which doesn't sound great... but also somehow makes sense to me.

 

[athenian200]

So, I just remembered the Part of Spirit is a thing as well, and I apparently have several parts associated with that location in my chart.

Part of Spirit: Sagittarius 24*28'
Abundance in the Home: Sagittarius 24*28'
Anareta I (Taker of Life): Sagittarius 24*46'
Boldness I: Sagittarius 24*46'
Charm & Good Manners: Sagittarius 24*46'
Cooperation II: Sagittarius 24*46'
Curiosity: Sagittarius 24*46'
Discernment & Education: Sagittarius 24*46'
Knowledge: Sagittarius 24*46'
Murder: Sagittarius 24*46'
Religion I: Sagittarius 24*28'
Slavery & Bondage: Sagittarius 24*46'

Granted, they all come from just two formulas. One is Ascendant + Sun - Moon, and the other is Ascendant + Moon - Mercury. Some versions of it technically use the Ruler of the Ascendant, but since in my case that is Mercury, it comes out to the exact same formula either way.

It seems like the reason there are a number of parts at that location, is mostly that they couldn't agree on the symbolism for what some of the formulas should mean. Plus in my case specifically, a lot of the symbolism overlaps anyway.

 

[JUPITERASC]

So, I just remembered the Part of Spirit is a thing as well, and I apparently have several parts associated with that location in my chart.

An introduction to the mathematical points in astrology
known as Lots or Arabic parts
focusing on the two most important lots
called the Lot of Fortune and the Lot of Spirit
with astrologers Chris Brennan & Kira Ryberg
- explore the history, philosophy
& calculations behind lots
- also analyze some example charts
to help bring the concept to life.

Part of Spirit: Sagittarius 24*28'
Abundance in the Home: Sagittarius 24*28'
Anareta I (Taker of Life): Sagittarius 24*46'
Boldness I: Sagittarius 24*46'
Charm & Good Manners: Sagittarius 24*46'
Cooperation II: Sagittarius 24*46'
Curiosity: Sagittarius 24*46'
Discernment & Education: Sagittarius 24*46'
Knowledge: Sagittarius 24*46'
Murder: Sagittarius 24*46'
Religion I: Sagittarius 24*28'
Slavery & Bondage: Sagittarius 24*46'

Granted, they all come from just two formulas. One is Ascendant + Sun - Moon, and the other is Ascendant + Moon - Mercury. Some versions of it technically use the Ruler of the Ascendant, but since in my case that is Mercury, it comes out to the exact same formula either way.

It seems like the reason there are a number of parts at that location, is mostly that they couldn't agree on the symbolism for what some of the formulas should mean. Plus in my case specifically, a lot of the symbolism overlaps anyway.

 

[piercethevale]

So, I started looking at a list of Arabic parts and seeing if any of them were at locations that stand out in my chart. I used this site to generate them:
...

You have to realize that a good many of the titles given to Parts were titled thus for use in horary and not natal charts. As the Asc. changes every 4 minutes accurate natal charts weren't really a reality until very recently. As it takes a precise, or nearly so, birth time and location to cast an accurate natal chart, natal derived Astrological Parts were never understood until recently. The Islamics of old that wrote about the existence of these Parts have been revealed that they never demonstrated any understanding of the Parts and have been determined to be nothing more than scribes that recorded what they saw being performed by astrologers of other lands... particularly India.

I don't have the time to address all of the Parts you have listed that are of some concern to you but I will point out the the Part so labeled as that of "Cancer and Malignancy" I have demonstrated to actually best be labeled as the "Part of Perspicuity". However, I don't even have any faith that the other label is even applicable to horary charts.

Your anecdote about your condition at birth and the Part of Peril is very interesting though. I have a thread somewhere in the forum about Hillary Clinton and the discrepancies as to her time of recorded birth...as there are at least a couple of given times and I seem to recall there is even as many as three or four. With the help of my friend, and spiritual confidante, the renowned clairvoyant, Clarisse Conner, whom told me that she "saw" that Hillary was actually born about four and a half minutes earlier than the most accepted birth time and that she was not breathing when she was born, I was given cause to recast [rectify] that natal chart and, lo and behold, the Part of Death was exactly conjunct her natal Asc. at that time. So, as the Asc. is ones' awareness, Her awareness at birth was death.
I don't, offhand, recall which of the Parts labeled "Death" it is that appears on that chart, but if you can find that thread you'll get that information or check the footnotes in my thread that on Astrological Parts as I seem to recall I did make a footnote concerning that.

P.S. As you are already on your way to fully realize it is the use of Sabian Symbols that has been the most helpful in understanding what these mislabeled Astrological Parts are really all about.
As I often like to say; the Sabian Symbols are the ultimate tool for rectification.

May God Bless you, and assist you, in your quest for greater Astrological understanding and knowledge.

 

[piercethevale]

I edited the above after it was read.

 

[athenian200]

I appreciate you taking the time to comment on my thread, certainly. I honestly wasn't expecting anyone else to be interested in what I was doing here. Since I posted this thread, I've taken to focusing more on the actual formulas than I did in my OP. The circumstances of my birth are very well-described by the chart... I was born in a university hospital (Gemini Rising), and an experienced doctor was using the situation of my birth, to teach younger doctors how to perform a Caesarian section (Chiron in 1st house).

Now that we are on the subject of my chart, though, I've noticed an interesting pattern in my natal chart related to the parts we were discussing in the other thread.

Like I said, my Part of Imprisonment (Ascendant + Fortune - Neptune) is Taurus 13:

PHASE 43 (TAURUS 13°): A PORTER CARRYING HEAVY BAGGAGE.

KEYNOTE: Self-mobilization for social advantage.

The "man" spoken of in the preceding symbol is now integrated in a social pattern. He has to carry a load — perhaps a load of debts following an ambitious buying spree, or some other social burden. He is the strong man, the man of ambition who has to take care of the inward-turned "woman" aspect of his consciousness, the aspect that seeks to grow a beautiful "garden" of individual selfhood.

At this third stage of the ninth five-fold sequence we see the outcome of the first two. The relationship of ego-man and society has taken the aspect of COMPULSION FOR GAIN.

But the seemingly unrelated Part of Wastefulness (Ascendant + Uranus - Venus) is at Capricorn 19, and has very close symbolism:

PHASE 289 (CAPRICORN 19°): A FIVE-YEAR-OLD CHILD CARRYING A BAG FILLED WITH GROCERIES.

KEYNOTE: Rising to the occasion when asked to assume social responsibilities ahead of one's normal development.

What seems to be implied at this stage of the cyclic process is the value of early conditioning in teaching one how to fulfill the responsibilities of everyday life in our modern society. This twentieth scene of the complete process has been entitled "Group performance," and today it is evident that Children at an early age are expected to assume a family role which at times will strain their natural capacities. This is part of the accelerating pace of our technological society.

This fourth stage symbol evokes the possibility of meeting a certain type of social opportunity which normally may seem premature. A pattern of ACCELERATED GROWTH can thus be established, with both positive and negative aspects. Rushing ahead of one's natural development may be damaging; yet we are living in a particularly dynamic period of man's evolution.

What it makes me think of is how early on, I learned to read at age 3, long before I was expected to do so, and was very quick to learn how to use a computer around age 7 and then the Internet around age 10. Great things were expected of me, and I was given a lot of freedom to study whatever I was interested in and read whatever books I wanted. I would often choose to watch documentaries on PBS rather than anything more suited to my age. It seemed like as I got older, non-intellectual tasks were my Achille's heel... I had jumped ahead in intellectual development, to become an early reader and Internet user. Only to find that my spatial skills and social skills lagged behind and were stunted at an earlier level, to the point that I couldn't function at the level needed to do things like drive a car or obtain employment.

The reason it feels like a "waste" in some ways is because, well, I spent all that time as a child knowingly researching and trying to prepare for adult life, only to find I was unprepared and unable to deal with it regardless, and that what I lacked couldn't be found in a book or on a website, but was mostly in those small, age-appropriate activities that I'd neither been forced to partake in, nor shown much interest in. I mean, yeah, I did occasionally put the cart away or help carry groceries at a young age, and I still do... but I just never got much beyond that in terms of real-life abilities.

After this, I got curious and tried reversing the formula for Part of Wastefulness on a whim to see what the opposite is... and it turns out it's my Part of Perversion (Ascendant + Venus - Uranus).

PHASE 223 (SCORPIO 13°): AN INVENTOR PERFORMS A LABORATORY EXPERIMENT.

KEYNOTE: The driving urge toward achievement, which is at the root of civilization.

At whatever level, the development of more complete and efficient forms of social interplay — the essence of the process of civilization — demands ingenuity, inventiveness and the willingness to experiment within relatively secure test conditions. One must try to go to the roots of problems of interpersonal or international relations, as well as to discover the principles controlling the interaction between material particles and larger bodies. Modern technology is only one approach to an immensely complex problem. Intuition is as necessary to success as intellectual analysis.

This is the third stage of the forty-fifth sequence of five symbols. The symbol stresses the value of individual initiative, perseverance and caution in any attempt to understand how everything is related to everything else. What is most needed is the ABILITY TO RELATE SEEMINGLY UNRELATED FACTS.

This degree is opposite my Part of Imprisonment, in Taurus 13, and seems to suggest the other course of action I tend to take since I'm blocked off from the path suggested by that degree. All that energy goes into here... doing random, experimental, nerdy things and seeing where they take me, without a real goal in mind.

Amusingly, the one girl I actually had a romantic relationship with had this degree on her Ascendant. Her avatar (on some other forum, not here) was of a female scientist from some anime who had been called, during the show, a "perverted genius girl." In fact, when we first met, her ex-boyfriend was publicly criticizing her for cheating on him, and I was the one comforting her in private messages and listening to her side of the story, and we slowly bonded from that. Even though our relationship didn't lead anywhere in the end, and she married someone else... she would always talk to me about various guys she was dating, and still tells me more about her husband and her celebrity crushes to this day than she should. She was very ambitious and was the one who initiated the relationship, and also the one that ended it. I always had this odd fondness for her, often laughing and calling her "my ambitious little pervert," as an endearing nickname. I just couldn't stay mad at her no matter what kind of things she got up to, she is just too endearing and still talks to me every single day.

So, while I don't know what the Part of Wastefulness means in general, I get the feeling that in my own chart, it is somehow connected to the meaning of both the Part of Perversion and the Part of Imprisonment.

 

[piercethevale]

I appreciate you taking the time to comment on my thread, certainly. I honestly wasn't expecting anyone else to be interested in what I was doing here. Since I posted this thread, I've taken to focusing more on the actual formulas than I did in my OP. The circumstances of my birth are very well-described by the chart... I was born in a university hospital (Gemini Rising), and an experienced doctor was using the situation of my birth, to teach younger doctors how to perform a Caesarian section (Chiron in 1st house).

Now that we are on the subject of my chart, though, I've noticed an interesting pattern in my natal chart related to the parts we were discussing in the other thread.

Like I said, my Part of Imprisonment (Ascendant + Fortune - Neptune) is Taurus 13:



But the seemingly unrelated Part of Wastefulness (Ascendant + Uranus - Venus) is at Capricorn 19, and has very close symbolism:



What it makes me think of is how early on, I learned to read at age 3, long before I was expected to do so, and was very quick to learn how to use a computer around age 7 and then the Internet around age 10. Great things were expected of me, and I was given a lot of freedom to study whatever I was interested in and read whatever books I wanted. I would often choose to watch documentaries on PBS rather than anything more suited to my age. It seemed like as I got older, non-intellectual tasks were my Achille's heel... I had jumped ahead in intellectual development, to become an early reader and Internet user. Only to find that my spatial skills and social skills lagged behind and were stunted at an earlier level, to the point that I couldn't function at the level needed to do things like drive a car or obtain employment.

The reason it feels like a "waste" in some ways is because, well, I spent all that time as a child knowingly researching and trying to prepare for adult life, only to find I was unprepared and unable to deal with it regardless, and that what I lacked couldn't be found in a book or on a website, but was mostly in those small, age-appropriate activities that I'd neither been forced to partake in, nor shown much interest in. I mean, yeah, I did occasionally put the cart away or help carry groceries at a young age, and I still do... but I just never got much beyond that in terms of real-life abilities.

After this, I got curious and tried reversing the formula for Part of Wastefulness on a whim to see what the opposite is... and it turns out it's my Part of Perversion (Ascendant + Venus - Uranus).



This degree is opposite my Part of Imprisonment, in Taurus 13, and seems to suggest the other course of action I tend to take since I'm blocked off from the path suggested by that degree. All that energy goes into here... doing random, experimental, nerdy things and seeing where they take me, without a real goal in mind.

Amusingly, the one girl I actually had a romantic relationship with had this degree on her Ascendant. Her avatar (on some other forum, not here) was of a female scientist from some anime who had been called, during the show, a "perverted genius girl." In fact, when we first met, her ex-boyfriend was publicly criticizing her for cheating on him, and I was the one comforting her in private messages and listening to her side of the story, and we slowly bonded from that. Even though our relationship didn't lead anywhere in the end, and she married someone else... she would always talk to me about various guys she was dating, and still tells me more about her husband and her celebrity crushes to this day than she should. She was very ambitious and was the one who initiated the relationship, and also the one that ended it. I always had this odd fondness for her, often laughing and calling her "my ambitious little pervert," as an endearing nickname. I just couldn't stay mad at her no matter what kind of things she got up to, she is just too endearing and still talks to me every single day.

So, while I don't know what the Part of Wastefulness means in general, I get the feeling that in my own chart, it is somehow connected to the meaning of both the Part of Perversion and the Part of Imprisonment.

As I wrote in that other thread, this "Part of Watefulness" is apparently, and to me obviously, mis-labeled.
Thanks to your inquiry in that other thread, I think that I finally got a good handle on it.That what it is, is a Part that indicates what it is that we must embrace as being of higher awareness. That which, in relation to the natal chart of the United States, that which we find to be of beautiful, and sudden, change from the norm.

The "perversion" [and another label I find to be at least a bit inappropriate], seems to be,that which we what we must tend to keep somewhat in check.

Your own accounting of your life experience, seems to me, to bear this rationale out. It's just that you shouldn't take the symbolism of the 19th degree of Capricorn quite so literally. But I think that you already know that. As you, yourself, noted, it was the stunting of having a typical childhood that led you to become deficient in social skills. That is something that I find to be a reason to be a bit against exclusive home schooling. Children so raised tend to become awkward socially
Ironically, it is a bit of wastefulness, in that you wasted some part of your life in the pursuit of of being so achieved academically... or so it seems to me.

Interestingly, to me, the 19th degree of Capricorn is one of the degrees of the Zodiac that conforms to the "Star", the "Grand Quintle", that is constructed in form to my mid-haven. I have been preparing to bring this up in my thread about the crux of the chart axis. I'm not ready yet to get into it as it is such a personal subject but one that I wish to share for the insightfulness it may provide others.

My bane has been that I am not so proficient at verbal comprehension and usage. While my I.Q. was found to be somewhere between 128 and 140 that is due to my proficiency at math, spatial, and mechanical reasoning. I'm not naturally inclined towards reading and I abhorred the subject of grammar in school. I hate writing, and I always have, yet I have found myself to be [if I may be excused for using the term?] "divinely compelled" to do so. That "compulsion" was "put into gear" a little over 17 years ago. I deleted a great many threads and posts of mine years ago when I thought that I would leave this forum forever. So, know that I've written a great deal more than the statistics in my forum profile claim to be. Despite so much writing [and that of a book I managed to have published and the revised manuscript which has yet to be published] and the writing I have done at a number of other Astrological forums, two of which have since become defunct, I'm still far short of being adequate at the skill and I am still adverse to the effort it takes... and I still abhor the subject of grammar.

But, it is those efforts that do prove to be worthwhile, that do show to have any degree of successfully communicating with others, are that which nourish my heart and sustain my efforts. I thank you for providing so much nourishment these past few days.

 

[piercethevale]

Know that, according to Dane Rudhyar, that the Sabian Symbolism found for ones cusp of their 12th House, is that which you find to be the answer facing the greatest problem before all humankind.
Yours is in the 3rd degree of Taurus and I think that you realize the the nourishing and fecundating derived from your studies in astrology is leading to a great expansion of your own consciousness... at least it is part of the process as you seemingly have already been in the effort to do so.

 

[athenian200]

As I wrote in that other thread, this "Part of Watefulness" is apparently, and to me obviously, mis-labeled.
Thanks to your inquiry in that other thread, I think that I finally got a good handle on it.That what it is, is a Part that indicates what it is that we must embrace as being of higher awareness. That which, in relation to the natal chart of the United States, that which we find to be of beautiful, and sudden, change from the norm.

Yeah, I think I just felt compelled to use the label that existed and try to fit my experience into it, which is a bit of a downside of having a high verbal IQ. You become too good at looking for patterns that would allow you to build something within the limitations of an imperfect, existing foundation, rather than recognizing the need to start over completely or even seeing the possibility of building a different foundation.

That does make perfect sense with Venus, though. If Ascendant + Uranus - Mars is a "Pars Liberte," something that a person is liberated from through action (Mars), then maybe Ascendant + Uranus - Venus is getting out of what's normal in a harmonious or beautiful way (Venus). Like calling in sick to get out of work for a day, rather than quitting your job or getting fired. More generally, it might represent something you harmoniously "slipped out of" because of natural appeal. A change from the norm that doesn't occur because of action or passion, but rather one that happens gracefully and harmoniously, almost seeming natural although it isn't.

In my case, because my Mom thought highly of me and appreciated my sensitivity (apparently a man told her that I would probably be "sensitive" due to being born prematurely), I got out of a lot of things. For instance, one time she suggested that I join the Boy Scouts and I started crying at the thought of being in the wilderness and away from home, so things like sports or camping were just never forced on me because I reacted badly. The reason my Mom took me out of school, was that she was afraid they would put me on drugs like Ritalin that she was uncomfortable with... mostly because I was a little bored with the curriculum and saying oddly offensive things. Like complaining about my classmates being "illiterate" in Kindergarten, and using sarcasm when the teachers were not used to dealing with it from kids that young. I did wind up going back to school in 8th grade, but between 3rd and 8th, I wasn't there at all.

The "perversion" [and another label I find to be at least a bit inappropriate], seems to be,that which we what we must tend to keep somewhat in check.

That seems true at least in my case. If I am denied what Taurus 13 represents, I seem to have a double dose of what Scorpio 13 represents, almost as if "making up" for it and obsessing over the only kind of work I know how to do, without any aim towards profit or gain.

For some reason, I'm thinking of this scene in Back to the Future (skip to 1:32 if it doesn't automatically):


In that scene, Doc is talking about why he invented the time machine and what he thinks is worthwhile, while Marty is trying to justify profiting from it and Doc is uncomfortable with the idea. I seem to embody Doc's perspective quite a bit, in the sense of just feeling that the "big questions" are the important ones and finding myself ill at ease with the idea of using my gifts for personal gain.

Ironically, it is a bit of wastefulness, in that you wasted some part of your life in the pursuit of of being so achieved academically... or so it seems to me.

Yeah, so even though that's not the best name for the part, there is likely a reason it's called that. In some cases, a deviation from the norm that you charm your way into could result in missed opportunities or wasted potential, but the freedom you gain from that constraint could also lead to something beautiful and unique, if utilized correctly and you recognize the gift you've been given. If not, it could indeed be wasted.

My bane has been that I am not so proficient at verbal comprehension and usage. While my I.Q. was found to be somewhere between 128 and 140 that is due to my proficiency at math, spatial, and mechanical reasoning. I'm not naturally inclined towards reading and I abhorred the subject of grammar in school. I hate writing, and I always have, yet I have found myself to be [if I may be excused for using the term?] "divinely compelled" to do so. That "compulsion" was "put into gear" a little over 17 years ago. I deleted a great many threads and posts of mine years ago when I thought that I would leave this forum forever. So, know that I've written a great deal more than the statistics in my forum profile claim to be. Despite so much writing [and that of a book I managed to have published and the revised manuscript which has yet to be published] and the writing I have done at a number of other Astrological forums, two of which have since become defunct, I'm still far short of being adequate at the skill and I am still adverse to the effort it takes... and I still abhor the subject of grammar.

But, it is those efforts that do prove to be worthwhile, that do show to have any degree of successfully communicating with others, are that which nourish my heart and sustain my efforts. I thank you for providing so much nourishment these past few days.

I'm glad I was able to help in some small way. Interestingly, my best subjects in school were always English and History, and I loved writing essays a lot. I also do okay with logic to some degree, enough to be able to solve computer problems easily, but Math, spatial, and mechanical stuff is all very hard for me. In fact, when I went back to school in the 8th grade, they tested me and found that I was already reading and writing on a college level, but only had 4th grade Math skills. They wanted to put me in AP English, but couldn't because I need Resource Math, and it was very frustrating to them that my development was so uneven.

It's odd that we both managed to be interested in Astrology, despite having such different skillsets and interests. I guess in some ways it's a subject that has something for everyone... plenty of symbolism, words, mythology, and psychological thinking for someone like me, but also plenty of Math and geometry for someone with a more Mathematical mind.

 

[piercethevale]

Yeah, I think I just felt compelled to use the label that existed and try to fit my experience into it, which is a bit of a downside of having a high verbal IQ. You become too good at looking for patterns that would allow you to build something within the limitations of an imperfect, existing foundation, rather than recognizing the need to start over completely or even seeing the possibility of building a different foundation.

That does make perfect sense with Venus, though. If Ascendant + Uranus - Mars is a "Pars Liberte," something that a person is liberated from through action (Mars), then maybe Ascendant + Uranus - Venus is getting out of what's normal in a harmonious or beautiful way (Venus). Like calling in sick to get out of work for a day, rather than quitting your job or getting fired. More generally, it might represent something you harmoniously "slipped out of" because of natural appeal. A change from the norm that doesn't occur because of action or passion, but rather one that happens gracefully and harmoniously, almost seeming natural although it isn't.

In my case, because my Mom thought highly of me and appreciated my sensitivity (apparently a man told her that I would probably be "sensitive" due to being born prematurely), I got out of a lot of things. For instance, one time she suggested that I join the Boy Scouts and I started crying at the thought of being in the wilderness and away from home, so things like sports or camping were just never forced on me because I reacted badly. The reason my Mom took me out of school, was that she was afraid they would put me on drugs like Ritalin that she was uncomfortable with... mostly because I was a little bored with the curriculum and saying oddly offensive things. Like complaining about my classmates being "illiterate" in Kindergarten, and using sarcasm when the teachers were not used to dealing with it from kids that young. I did wind up going back to school in 8th grade, but between 3rd and 8th, I wasn't there at all.


That seems true at least in my case. If I am denied what Taurus 13 represents, I seem to have a double dose of what Scorpio 13 represents, almost as if "making up" for it and obsessing over the only kind of work I know how to do, without any aim towards profit or gain.

For some reason, I'm thinking of this scene in Back to the Future (skip to 1:32 if it doesn't automatically):


In that scene, Doc is talking about why he invented the time machine and what he thinks is worthwhile, while Marty is trying to justify profiting from it and Doc is uncomfortable with the idea. I seem to embody Doc's perspective quite a bit, in the sense of just feeling that the "big questions" are the important ones and finding myself ill at ease with the idea of using my gifts for personal gain.

Yeah, so even though that's not the best name for the part, there is likely a reason it's called that. In some cases, a deviation from the norm that you charm your way into could result in missed opportunities or wasted potential, but the freedom you gain from that constraint could also lead to something beautiful and unique, if utilized correctly and you recognize the gift you've been given. If not, it could indeed be wasted.

I'm glad I was able to help in some small way. Interestingly, my best subjects in school were always English and History, and I loved writing essays a lot. I also do okay with logic to some degree, enough to be able to solve computer problems easily, but Math, spatial, and mechanical stuff is all very hard for me. In fact, when I went back to school in the 8th grade, they tested me and found that I was already reading and writing on a college level, but only had 4th grade Math skills. They wanted to put me in AP English, but couldn't because I need Resource Math, and it was very frustrating to them that my development was so uneven.

It's odd that we both managed to be interested in Astrology, despite having such different skillsets and interests. I guess in some ways it's a subject that has something for everyone... plenty of symbolism, words, mythology, and psychological thinking for someone like me, but also plenty of Math and geometry for someone with a more Mathematical mind.

I truly believe that "God" has a plan for each and everyone of us. As computers now can do all the mathematical work involved in constructing charts [it used to take an entire afternoon to construct a natal chart] you're actually at no disadvantage in this "science" and seemingly have an edge as to the intellectual gifts you have been given. Perhaps that is why you were bestowed with the shortcomings and obstacles you have faced? As it seemingly led you to explore astrology to search for answers and I think that you are now realizing that you have a knack for it.
Perhaps you will continue on and excel at it? You certainly seem to have the potential.

I know for certain that it is wrong to use the "gifts" we are given to generate wealth at the expense of others. It is when we use those gifts for the benefit of others, and especially for the benefit of all, that 'God" smiles upon us.

It's been most illuminating and productive corresponding with you.
Blessings, ptv
We are all "in this" together.

 

[athenian200]

The funny thing is, my Math difficulties actually started in earnest around the time I got to Calculus. I was actually able to able to understand Trig somewhat thanks to my experience with astrology... that is, I understand what degrees, minutes, and seconds were from working with charts, and was surprisingly good at mapping out cycles and angles, etc. I always did better with anything linked to Geometry, honestly.

I'm glad to hear you think I have potential. I was actually looking at my Part of Imprisonment again, and decided to check the antiscia of Taurus 13 as another way of delving into the point, to try and see if there was a hidden meaning behind it. The result was interesting...

PHASE 138 (LEO 18°): A CHEMIST CONDUCTS AN EXPERIMENT FOR HIS STUDENTS.

KEYNOTE: In inquiring into the hidden process of nature, the human mind experiences the thrill of discovery.

Here we reach the level of intellectual analysis and the human ability to control natural processes. This ability is based on the inherited knowledge acquired by a community of men, generation after generation. The symbol stresses this fact, as it presents a teaching situation. The individual demonstrates his power, which is founded on a long series of efforts. He is one link in an ancestral chain which his activity prolongs into the future.

At this third stage of the twenty-eighth phase of the cyclic process we see man, as an agent of the collectivity of human beings, approaching nature in terms of the possibility of transforming it in order to satisfy his needs or his wants. At the highest level of this activity one can speak of ALCHEMY.

This is almost the same symbolism as Scorpio 13, only this time it's the antiscia of Taurus 13 rather than the opposing degree. Almost like a confirmation that, yes, this kind of thing is where my energy goes instead of Taurus 13 due to that degree being blocked off.

With the difference being that this degree isn't just about relating seemingly unrelated facts like Scorpio 13, now it's about something deeper. It's about alchemy, transforming nature using knowledge handed down for generations. This is interesting because it touches on the other major thing I tend to study other than astrology... Jungian psychology, which involves subjects like synchronicity, dream analysis, the shadow, mythology, etc.

So essentially, most people are able to half-consciously incorporate experimentation, alchemy, and accumulated knowledge into something very simple... working, making money, taking on big burdens and trying to cultivate a strong self. Society keeps pointing me straight at Taurus 13 and telling me to do that, and doesn't understand why I can't go there or why I don't "get it." Since that simple cycle has been "broken" for me, that means I have to find the back door, and pursue those things directly that most people are able to indirectly gain while working for money.

While I may not be in touch with the need to "self-mobilize for social advantage" or focus directly on material gain, I certainly do want to uncover that which is hidden and transform nature to suit human needs, which has connections to why people want money, only in my case it's done purely for the sake of satisfying curiosity and educating others rather than for my own gain.

But really, the harder I think about the symbolism, the more I realize the issue is that deep down, I have little interest in purely practical and self-interested application of knowledge. All I am concerned with is learning about what's possible, and transmitting that knowledge to others. Likewise, many scientists and professors spend a lot of time researching something and proving that it's possible, and then it's another group of people that takes that idea and profits from it... that part of the process isn't usually interesting to the scientific researcher, their goal is often to push the frontiers of knowledge, not to settle down with a proven idea and profit from it directly while finding ways to make the theory useful and productive.

It is kind of odd that I had to go into these dusty corners with Sabian Symbols and obscure Arabic parts to find what I needed, but it seems like that's how things usually go for me, even in other fields like computing.

 

[piercethevale]

The funny thing is, my Math difficulties actually started in earnest around the time I got to Calculus. I was actually able to able to understand Trig somewhat thanks to my experience with astrology... that is, I understand what degrees, minutes, and seconds were from working with charts, and was surprisingly good at mapping out cycles and angles, etc. I always did better with anything linked to Geometry, honestly.

I'm glad to hear you think I have potential. I was actually looking at my Part of Imprisonment again, and decided to check the antiscia of Taurus 13 as another way of delving into the point, to try and see if there was a hidden meaning behind it. The result was interesting...



This is almost the same symbolism as Scorpio 13, only this time it's the antiscia of Taurus 13 rather than the opposing degree. Almost like a confirmation that, yes, this kind of thing is where my energy goes instead of Taurus 13 due to that degree being blocked off.

With the difference being that this degree isn't just about relating seemingly unrelated facts like Scorpio 13, now it's about something deeper. It's about alchemy, transforming nature using knowledge handed down for generations. This is interesting because it touches on the other major thing I tend to study other than astrology... Jungian psychology, which involves subjects like synchronicity, dream analysis, the shadow, mythology, etc.

So essentially, most people are able to half-consciously incorporate experimentation, alchemy, and accumulated knowledge into something very simple... working, making money, taking on big burdens and trying to cultivate a strong self. Society keeps pointing me straight at Taurus 13 and telling me to do that, and doesn't understand why I can't go there or why I don't "get it." Since that simple cycle has been "broken" for me, that means I have to find the back door, and pursue those things directly that most people are able to indirectly gain while working for money.

While I may not be in touch with the need to "self-mobilize for social advantage" or focus directly on material gain, I certainly do want to uncover that which is hidden and transform nature to suit human needs, which has connections to why people want money, only in my case it's done purely for the sake of satisfying curiosity and educating others rather than for my own gain.

But really, the harder I think about the symbolism, the more I realize the issue is that deep down, I have little interest in purely practical and self-interested application of knowledge. All I am concerned with is learning about what's possible, and transmitting that knowledge to others. Likewise, many scientists and professors spend a lot of time researching something and proving that it's possible, and then it's another group of people that takes that idea and profits from it... that part of the process isn't usually interesting to the scientific researcher, their goal is often to push the frontiers of knowledge, not to settle down with a proven idea and profit from it directly while finding ways to make the theory useful and productive.

It is kind of odd that I had to go into these dusty corners with Sabian Symbols and obscure Arabic parts to find what I needed, but it seems like that's how things usually go for me, even in other fields like computing.

I forfeited any profit I was due from the sale of my book by willfully violating the contract I have with my publisher and I did so just a few months after it was published. I realized that it wasn't getting any publicity or promotion by my publisher and what I had hoped to be a noteworthy revealing work of discovery was likely to end up a "niche" book and one considered to be from a writer of the "fringe element".. That was in the early Fall of 2008, the book was published on March 3, 2008. In all my years, I've never charged anyone even a dime for any Astrological information I was capable of giving them.

The only money I've ever made from the endeavors of over twenty years is the seven dollars I made selling a personal copy of my book to a Mendocino shopkeeper, I met while on a brief vacation to the Pacific coast, that insisted on paying retail, despite my protestations.
It was of importance that the material in the book became known. I get adequate means to live by from my retirement income sources and as much as I do know about "true" astrology, [I.e. "what has" proven to work, and "what didn't"] there is still too much about "what hasn't yet" been proven to either end, and "what has yet" to be re-discovered.

I wrote "re-discovered" because I believe that it was a science that was entirely understood at one time in a most antiquarian past. As Dane Rudhyar believed that it would one day be, not only, recognized as a "science", but that it will one day also be recognized as the "mother of all science", I too so believe and have seen indications of it. See my thread titled "A Runic Explanation of the Zodiac" for more about that.
In my lifetime I've learned a thing or two about the Universe and Creation and one of those things is that nature is never any more complicated than it need to be to "get the job done". There are a number of Astrological techniques of interpretation that are overly complex and seemingly can't be demonstrated to be of truth.

I believe a great many, if not all of them, were "invented" by inadequate astrologers to "baffle with bull s***". ... as the old saying goes, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bulls***". It was surely a most lucrative and highly coveted position to be a court astrologer and those in those positions had to cover their 'aspects'... if you know what I mean?

That is what my brother had been up to, determining how much of practiced astrology was real and what wasn't... in an attempt to prove what Edgar Cayce had said about it having once been a most honorable and noble study but that the amount of corruption it had suffered over millennia had rendered it more harmful than of good use, as it was being practiced in the first half of the twentieth century. That is what He handed me after about two years of intensive study when I went to visit, and stay, with him for a period of nine months, forty years ago.

The most impressive thing he showed me, and right off the bat, that first day, was the validity of the Sabian Symbols using my own natal chart to provide examples. A few days later he told me that I have a natural instinct for it and encouraged me to continue on with the study and use of it. I continue his work where he left off. He's very proficient at it but turned his studies towards the sciences of "academic respectfulness". He had about 5 or 6 Bachelor degrees and a Masters in Teaching, the last time I talked to him... and he earned all those in a period of just seven years. I imagine that he has at least one or two more by now. He's most erudite and most proficient at any scholarly pursuit he sets his mind to.
It may interest you that he was also very interested in the work of Carl Jung and read about everything there is by the man, if not all of it?

When I noticed that the formula opposite of that of "Intelligence & Skill" was titled as the "Part of Disputes", I had my doubts and reasoned that the formula has to add up to be something as more to the opposite of Intelligence & Skill. I asked my trusted friend, and proven clairvoyant, Clarisse Conners, if the Part in question might better be titled as one of 'stupidity and ineptness', or something suggesting unIntelligence? She replied that she saw it more as "innocence". Try to keep that in mind when dealing with questionably titled Astrological Parts. For every action in the Universe found in nature there is an opposite and equal reaction. That applies to astrology as well.

May God Bless you and assist you in the learning to read the "Starry Script". ptv

 

[piercethevale]

By the way, I've never studied antiscia and to be honest I had to look the term up to remind myself what it pertains to. As it can vary so much during a year I don't know if I, myself, can put much faith in it but I am pleased to see that you are using the Sabian Symbols in interpreting them... and it might just be coincidence that it seemingly is so much more as like being the opposite precept, that it seems to be a symbol of a compulsion towards everyone's gain.

Very intriguing observation. Thank you for sharing.

 

[piercethevale]

It may interest you to know, speaking of Part of Intelligence & Skill and a Part of Innocence, my "Part of Innocence" is in the 11th deg. of Libra [ibid.]

"LIBRA 11°: A PROFESSOR PEERING OVER HIS GLASSES AT HIS STUDENTS.

KEYNOTE: Problems attending the transmission of knowledge in a special cultural setup.

This is a rather peculiar symbol for this phase of the process, and it reveals a rather humorous approach to what man's mind can accomplish at this stage. However, there seems to be no valid reason to make the image into some kind of a caricature, or to sentimentalize it by referring to a 'kind old professor.' Rather one should analyze the picture in order to discover its basic elements. The professor has dealt so much with books that he has greatly strained his eyes; in days when bifocal lenses were not widely used, he had to peer over his glasses in order to see his students. The symbol thus simply reveals two aspects of the condition of 'professor-ship' — that is, of being able to transfer to the young generation the vast sum of knowledge accumulated by the past. The need to absorb this enormous amount of book knowledge affects the mind as well as the eyes; in order to meet the demands of the turbulent youth, the teacher in a sense has to look above this knowledge and to see his students simply as human beings.

This is the first symbol in the thirty-ninth five-fold sequence. It deals at the intellectual level with the teaching of accumulated collective knowledge, and the problem posed by the acquisition of that knowledge. This is what INSTRUCTION means — a process not to be confused with "education."

It's hard enough being a terrible wordsmith but to not really have a clue as how to instruct, and then find oneself in that very role, has caused me to look up to the sky, cockeyed, and ask "why", on more than one occasion.

 

[athenian200]

Ah, that's really interesting. Libra 11 is where my Part of Behest/Speculation (Ascendant + Jupiter - Neptune) falls.

My Part of Innocence (Ascendant + Mercury - Mars) would actually be Leo 14:

PHASE 134 (LEO 14°): A HUMAN SOUL SEEKING OPPORTUNITIES FOR OUTWARD MANIFESTATION.

KEYNOTE: The yearning for self-actualization.

Behind the many rhythms and drives of individual existence, beyond the child, the adult and the old man, stands the soul seeking always to manifest itself through the personality. This is the transpersonal urge of the spirit, expressing itself in many ways during the whole life span. But most avenues are blocked, and the soul waits until it can wait no longer. Then comes the dramatic release, which may mean a joyous carnival or madness.

The fourth stage of this twenty-seventh sequence brings a transcendental clue to the technique of living: Let the soul speak out! Allow the power of the true tone of your being to manifest itself smoothly, easily, unobstructed — or expect a variety of consequences. LET the soul manifest!

"Just letting" my soul manifest is something I feel very awkward and inept at doing, very much like what you're describing for trying to instruct. At least not in a straightforward way, like your problem with instructing... it's an area of clumsiness.

As for the part of Intelligence and Skill (Ascendant + Mars - Mercury), that one is at Aries 18:

PHASE 18 (ARIES 18°): AN EMPTY HAMMOCK STRETCHED BETWEEN TWO TREES.

KEYNOTE: A constructive alternation of activity and rest.

The symbol refers to the ability to balance outer vitalistic activity and withdrawal from such activity and relaxation. The owner of the hammock is active, but in his consciousness he can hold the image of rest in the midst of reenergizing nature. The concept of following the rat race of business therefore has no hold. Potency may be preserved and extremes avoided. Time is found for recuperation.

This is a third stage symbol which suggests a middle path between total involvement in instinctual or social drives, and withdrawal in impotent silence and narcissism - thus LIVING RHYTHMICALLY.

That does seem to be what I try to do, find a balance. I tend to alternate between engaging with society and withdrawing from it, but don't seem to put the level of effort into things that would be required to "get ahead," if you know what I mean. I know roughly how much energy I have to spend on outside activity and have learned that I get burned out fast if I go much over that "budget," and just can't make myself do it.

As far as the Antiscia, I think it's wise that you take them with a grain of salt as to their seasonal implications. As you say, the length of seasons varies. I was introduced to them as something symbolizing something like the Jungian "shadow" of an astrological point, that is to say, something that's hidden beneath the surface of it. I haven't done much testing as to whether they represent sensitive points on a chart (that may well not work), but they do seem useful for gaining insight into connections between non-neighboring Sabian Symbols that wouldn't be obvious on the surface just using oppositions. I mean, the whole thing is connected as a mandala anyway, much as Jung conceived the self... so it doesn't really seem out of place to try and follow the symbolism in an unusual direction that most people wouldn't think to explore.

That said, it's probably safer to stick to using antiscia purely in a symbolic or poetic way to gain insight into the "hidden meaning" behind the chart as it is, and be more cautious about using them as actual sensitive points on a chart.

 

[piercethevale]

Ah, that's really interesting. Libra 11 is where my Part of Behest/Speculation (Ascendant + Jupiter - Neptune) falls.

My Part of Innocence (Ascendant + Mercury - Mars) would actually be Leo 14:



"Just letting" my soul manifest is something I feel very awkward and inept at doing, very much like what you're describing for trying to instruct. At least not in a straightforward way, like your problem with instructing... it's an area of clumsiness.

As for the part of Intelligence and Skill (Ascendant + Mars - Mercury), that one is at Aries 18:



That does seem to be what I try to do, find a balance. I tend to alternate between engaging with society and withdrawing from it, but don't seem to put the level of effort into things that would be required to "get ahead," if you know what I mean. I know roughly how much energy I have to spend on outside activity and have learned that I get burned out fast if I go much over that "budget," and just can't make myself do it.

As far as the Antiscia, I think it's wise that you take them with a grain of salt as to their seasonal implications. As you say, the length of seasons varies. I was introduced to them as something symbolizing something like the Jungian "shadow" of an astrological point, that is to say, something that's hidden beneath the surface of it. I haven't done much testing as to whether they represent sensitive points on a chart (that may well not work), but they do seem useful for gaining insight into connections between non-neighboring Sabian Symbols that wouldn't be obvious on the surface just using oppositions. I mean, the whole thing is connected as a mandala anyway, much as Jung conceived the self... so it doesn't really seem out of place to try and follow the symbolism in an unusual direction that most people wouldn't think to explore.

That said, it's probably safer to stick to using antiscia purely in a symbolic or poetic way to gain insight into the "hidden meaning" behind the chart as it is, and be more cautious about using them as actual sensitive points on a chart.

Yes, I did get that about the Jungian "shadow". It came up again later that early morning when I was reviewing one of the other threads...and I forget off hand which thread that is...but Rudhyar, who was very studied in Jung, mentions the shadow in the symbolism for one of the degrees.

Have you looked up your Part of Hidden Identity, aka the Part of Oration? As Dane insightfully titled his book "An Astrological Mandala", it may be of interest to you that my Part of "Hidden Identity", my Part of "Oration" is conjunct in the same degree as my natal Uranus. They are both in the 16th degree of Cancer. [ibid.]
"CANCER 16°: A MAN STUDYING A MANDALA IN FRONT OF HIM, WITH THE HELP OF A VERY ANCIENT BOOK."

It was when I checked out the same Part in Donald Trump's chart, in early January of 2016 and found that it is in the 3rd degree of Aries, I made the prediction right then that not only would he get the Republican partys' nomination but that He would also go on to win the election. [ibid.]
"ARIES 3°: THE CAMEO PROFILE OF A MAN, SUGGESTING THE SHAPE OF HIS COUNTRY."

So then, I think that you can see why I find this particular Astrological Part to be so significant.

 

[athenian200]

My Part of Hidden Identity, or part of Oration (Ascendant + Saturn - Moon)? Yeah, I think mine is pretty straightforward...

PHASE 165 (VIRGO 15°): A FINE LACE HANDKERCHIEF, HEIRLOOM FROM VALOROUS ANCESTORS.

KEYNOTE: The quintessence of deeds well done.

Root strength produces beautiful flowers. The neophyte who acts with determination, courage and discrimination while following "in the footsteps" of his predecessors receives a symbolic prize from the Brotherhood ready to welcome him when he has fully proven himself on the battlefield where he meets his past, which tries to block his way. The mystic Beloved hands him what she has woven for him out of spiritual threads.

This is the last stage of the thirty-third sequence which also ends the eleventh scene, "Characterization." This scene began with the revelation in a portrait of salient features in a man's face. It ends with symbols which bring out the ultimate validity of the many efforts of generations of men toward the building of a beautiful and significant CULTURE. The Man of Culture is, in the deepest and best sense of the term, the Aristocrat. He is the flowering of a line of ancestors who have accepted responsibility for a group or community. Likewise, the true "disciple" is the blossom that crowns a long series of incarnations.

I think sometimes I give a vibe of wanting to be this very cultured and sophisticated person in a culture that just... isn't that way. There was a guy who told me randomly, in a Creative Writing class last year, that he likes this poem about an aristocratic man from past centuries in England trying and failing to be fashionable and fit in. Then he told me... that it made him think of me and the way I carry myself. I even had one guy joke when I was in High School that they didn't believe I was really a High School student, but was actually a Russian spy in my 30s posing as a high school student. He insisted he was joking, but the fact that people laughed suggests there is something to it. There's just this vibe I seem to give off that makes people feel I'm terribly out of place in this day and age, and unsettles them if they're sensitive to it.

Anyway, it's interesting that you mention Aries 3. I was actually considering using it as an example of Antiscia revealing the "shadow" of a point on the Zodiac, just at random. The reason why? Well... the antiscia of Aries 3 is Virgo 28...

PHASE 178 (VIRGO 28°): A BALDHEADED MAN WHO HAS SEIZED POWER.

KEYNOTE: The sheer power of personality in times that call for decision.

Whether at the religious or at the socio-political and cultural level there comes a time when obsolescent patterns of order and cultural refinement have to be radically and relentlessly challenged. Catabolic personages emerge to seize power and dictate decisions that alter the structures of society; or within an individual life, an intense urge for cathartic changes mobilizes the will, and traumatic decisions are made. At such times, the issue has to be met and, ruthless as the power may appear, it must be accepted.

At this third stage of the thirty-sixth sequence we face the un-postponable necessity for decision and transformation. Existence is motion. No static formation, however beautiful and inspiring, can remain long unchallenged. Everything bows to THE POWER OF THE WILL — divine, executively human, or Satanic.

It makes it more obvious what's going on behind the scenes with Aries 3. By itself, Aries 3 might be taken as a man who is just a reflection of his country in some random way, but if you look at Virgo 28, you see it's not that simple. From the perspective of Aries 3, yes, an individual man is becoming identified with his country rather than just his individual self as part of ego development. But from Virgo 28's perspective... you see that man from the outside. Aries 3 is often connected with themes of seizing power, disrupting the established order, being decisive, willpower, channeling the collective cultural desire for change into a single man somehow, and this becomes more apparent in the context of Virgo 28's symbolism lurking in the background of it.

 

[piercethevale]

My Part of Hidden Identity, or part of Oration (Ascendant + Saturn - Moon)? Yeah, I think mine is pretty straightforward...



I think sometimes I give a vibe of wanting to be this very cultured and sophisticated person in a culture that just... isn't that way. There was a guy who told me randomly, in a Creative Writing class last year, that he likes this poem about an aristocratic man from past centuries in England trying and failing to be fashionable and fit in. Then he told me... that it made him think of me and the way I carry myself. I even had one guy joke when I was in High School that they didn't believe I was really a High School student, but was actually a Russian spy in my 30s posing as a high school student. He insisted he was joking, but the fact that people laughed suggests there is something to it. There's just this vibe I seem to give off that makes people feel I'm terribly out of place in this day and age, and unsettles them if they're sensitive to it.

Anyway, it's interesting that you mention Aries 3. I was actually considering using it as an example of Antiscia revealing the "shadow" of a point on the Zodiac, just at random. The reason why? Well... the antiscia of Aries 3 is Virgo 28...



It makes it more obvious what's going on behind the scenes with Aries 3. By itself, Aries 3 might be taken as a man who is just a reflection of his country in some random way, but if you look at Virgo 28, you see it's not that simple. From the perspective of Aries 3, yes, an individual man is becoming identified with his country rather than just his individual self as part of ego development. But from Virgo 28's perspective... you see that man from the outside. Aries 3 is often connected with themes of seizing power, disrupting the established order, being decisive, willpower, channeling the collective cultural desire for change into a single man somehow, and this becomes more apparent in the context of Virgo 28's symbolism lurking in the background of it.

Wow...
That does reflect on Trump... but these symbols can be taken in either context of being for the good or otherwise.

Maybe you'll find it of interest that Virgo 28* is the location of the Part of Catastrophe, I derived, from the natal chart I have for Yeshu'a/Jesus?
It doesn't take much pondering to see that was the reason for which He was crucified.

Yet, I have found that the Part of Catastrophe is a necessary "catastrophe". Mine, which I won't go into, is what ended up causing me to go to Los Angeles, in August of '84, and spend those nine months there when I learned the rudiments of "true Astrological understanding" from my brother.

So, you can see it is a necessary "catastrophe". The advantage of knowing it is to be able to mitigate the damage caused. I was lucky that mine didn't lead to my death at the time.

You may also find it of some interest that the 15th degree of Virgo is the location of the Part of War derived from the U.S.A.'s natal chart.
I am going to have to learn more about the antiscia. I am most intrigued.

 

[athenian200]

Wow...
That does reflect on Trump... but these symbols can be taken in either context of being for the good or otherwise.

Maybe you'll find it of interest that Virgo 28*, is the location of the Part of Catastrophe I derived from the natal chart I have for Yeshu'a/Jesus?
It doesn't take a genius to see that was the reason that He was crucified.

Oh, I would agree for sure. And just as before, Aries 3 is happening in the background of Virgo 28. Think about it... the shape of the Roman Empire was eventually Christianity. The most enduring legacy of the Western Roman Empire is probably the Catholic Church and it's odd mix of spiritual and political power. Even as that man was seizing power, Jesus is already becoming the shape of the new Roman Empire, one that brings together Greeks and Jews under a new religion, giving different parts of the Empire a common cultural element that didn't exist before. One that held Europe together in a loose cultural way long after the fall of Rome.

You may also find it of some interest that the 15th degree of Virgo is the location of the Part of War derived from the U.S.A.'s natal chart.
I am going to have to learn more about the antiscia. I am most intrigued.

Actually, I was looking up more information on that degree, and the main thing I found on this forum was it being used as the USA's natal Part of War.

While I don't have any particular desire to bring down the United States, I do sometimes feel a weird sort of tension with the culture here, and I have reason to believe that I may have had a past life as a Loyalist or Redcoat. In fact, I had a recurring dream for many years in which three characters that represent different aspects of my personality are arguing, and one of them is actually a Redcoat named James Burke holding a Bible and a sword. The most revealing thing he told me, when I asked why he was there in the dream representing a part of me if I was born an American and not an Englishman, he said something along the lines of, "when North Korea was divided from South Korea, did a new country get created, or was an existing nation that once had a common history divided into two parts?" That was probably the biggest insight he gave me. That the American Revolution could legitimately be viewed as a successful rebellion that split a once-unified English culture in two, rather than the birth of a new country out of nothing, as it's usually portrayed in the history books.

It's probably worth noting though, that most of his grievances against the US involve things like tarring and feathering loyalists, destruction of crown property, false Patriot propaganda, etc. That is to say, they have little or nothing to do with today's America, and most of the people he's angry with, like Thomas Paine and Samuel Adams, are long dead.

Interestingly, I was just thinking about how my South Node is also in Virgo, and wondered if that had any connection to the US natal chart. It turns out it does, but it's not an astrological part. It's the same as the USA's natal Neptune.

PHASE 173 (VIRGO 23°): A LION TAMER DISPLAYS HIS SKILL AND CHARACTER.

KEYNOTE: The need to tame one's vital energies in order to fulfill one's destiny.

We see here the development of the concept of training. The true aristocrat is the individual who is in complete control of his vital and emotional energies; at the spiritual level this includes the overcoming of pride — pride in one's strength and mastery, and the pride attached to an exalted status or social Office.

This is the third stage of the thirty-fifth sequence of five symbols. The meaning of this phase of development is traditional and evident. The whole process of social-ethical and occult-spiritual conditioning of the individual aims at the control of man's "animal nature." The energies of this nature can be put to many uses. Implied in any successful process of taming and training is RESOLUTENESS and PATIENCE.