TRADITIONAL MUNDANE ASTROLOGY CHARTS are TOP of the HIERARCY of HOROSCOPIC ASTROLOGY CHARTS

[JUPITERASC]

.
SPECIFICALLY TRADITIONAL

SEVEN VISIBLE CLASSICAL PLANETS - no outers
apposite visual illustrations & youtube traditional astrology links are fine

OP does not include any "..demonstration.."
thread responses are completely voluntary and FREE
in-depth personal tuition is not provided on this site for free
only very basic guidelines
and clearly
any member sufficiently interested to study the subject
is free to do so

***Please Read Before Posting On This Board***

This is the Traditional Astrology forum. Out of all the different boards in this forum, this one is the home for traditional astrologers. It was created so that traditional astrologers can discuss traditional astrology with each other, without having to justify it to non-traditionalists or be...

www.astrologyweekly.com

The following is the
TRADITIONAL MUNDANE HOROSCOPIC ASTROLOGY HIERARCHY
for any interested astrologers to utilise
for themselves

Ibn Ezra provides an insightful hierarchy of HOROSCOPIC Astrology

1) At the top there is MUNDANE HOROSCOPY.

"..What is indicated by the great conjunctions
cannot be overridden by individual natal charts.."
Ibn Ezra
i.e.
if a mundane chart indicates war at a particular locality
THEN
everyone at that particular locality will experience war
regardless of the indications in their respective natal charts

The charts ABOVE natal chart
in Hierarchy
are MUNDANE Astrology charts
Mundane Astrology studies the astrological influences of Great Cycles
on Cities, Nations, Towns, Villages
and
any natal chart is subject to the influences of the Mundane Astrological picture
for any Nation, City, Town, Village et al

by the way
Relocate the mundane chart(s) to YOUR COUNTRY
and
for maximum accuracy, use the "...foundation point..."
eg: Romania = Alba Iulia, not Bucharesti;
Japan = Kyoto, not Tokyo;
Spain = Toledo, not Madrid etc etc etc


Mundane astrology is very Hierarchical
i.e.
Starting with the Grand Conjunction
an Horary chart is below a Natal chart
& is lowest on the MUNDANE HIERARCHY


MUNDANE ASTROLOGY HIERARCHY is as follows:

Grand Conjunction 1702
21 May 1702
4:01:37 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York
074°W00'37"
40°N42'26"

Great Mutation (Earth) 1802
17 Jul 1802
5:52:26 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York

The most recent great conjunction occurred on 21 December 2020
and the next will occur on 4 November 2040.

During the 2020 great conjunction
the two planets were separated in the sky by 6 arcminutes at their closest point
which was the closest distance between the two planets since 1623

Jupiter's alignment with Saturn
occurs at intervals of just under 20 years
The aspect is occasionally repeated due to a retrograde
of one or both planets.
Each successive conjunction
not counting retrograde repeats
occurs at a mean advance of
approximately 243 degrees relative to its predecessor
although from one alignment to the next
this arc can vary considerably.

Every third conjunction
i.e.
once every 60 years
brings the alignment back
to its starting place, plus around 9 degrees:
this 60 year cycle is termed
FIRST ORDER RECURRENCE of the conjunction.

Every 40th conjunction - roughly once every 800 years -
brings the alignment back to within about 1 degree of its starting place:
this approximate 800 year cycle is termed SECOND ORDER RECURRENCE
aka GREAT MUTATION CYCLE


EXAMPLE IMAGE IS OF RECENT 2020 GREAT MUTATION 800 YEAR CYCLE
SECOND ORDER RECURRENCE

Great Conjunction 2020
21 December 2020
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York

Great Malefic 2004
25 May 2004
1:20 AM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York
....is currently the operating Malefic Chart
and then the following will become operative....
Great Malefic 2034
26 Jun 2034
5:33:42 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York


2024 Aries Ingress
Federal Hall, New York

THEN
INSERT YOUR NATAL CHART HERE
That is where your place is in the TRADITIONAL MUNDANE hierarchy of charts.
THEN
INSERT HORARY CHART HERE
That is where horary charts are in the TRADITIONAL MUNDANE hierarchy of charts

 

[JUPITERASC]

.
FOR INTERESTED BEGINNERS

Bonatti on Mundane Astrology - Benjamin Dykes

A large work on mundane astrology: discovering the Lord of the Year and the significator of the king, the condition of the people, assigning zodiacal degrees to regions of the world, weather and natural disasters, war, comets, eclipses, fixed stars, the Head and Tail of the Dragon. Click here...

bendykes.com

.

 

[Oddity]

Once in a while you get a mutation towards the end of the 240 year period. Like in 1980 when the conjunction jumped ahead to Libra instead of Virgo.
We switched from the Earth cycle to the Air cycle with the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction in 2020. The air cycle overall is pretty inimical to humans as totalitarianism tends to be a big theme, and Saturn is stronger than Jupiter in each conjunction. So... Saturn themes, but you hardly need to be an astrologer to see what's happening.

 

[FraterAC]

The air cycle overall is pretty inimical to humans

Why is the Air cycle less favorable to humans (Aquarius, sign of the man, being an air sign) than the Earth cycle?

 

[JUPITERASC]

.

TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY AQUARIUS
- The image of the Water-Pourer
is masculine, diurnal, human
Domicile of Saturn

.

 

[Oddity]

Why is the Air cycle less favorable to humans (Aquarius, sign of the man, being an air sign) than the Earth cycle?

Because Saturn prevails and Jupiter gets clobbered during each conjunction.
Saturn rules Aquarius, Jupiter is overpowered.
Saturn is nothing special i Gemini, but Jupiter is detrimented there.
Saturn is exalted in Libra, Jupiter gets clobbered again.
The earth cycle - the one we just got out of - was a pretty rough ride for humanity, but this. Is not like that.
If you got the definite impression that the world changed in 2020 - you weren't wrong.

 

[FraterAC]

Because Saturn prevails and Jupiter gets clobbered during each conjunction.
Saturn rules Aquarius, Jupiter is overpowered.
Saturn is nothing special i Gemini, but Jupiter is detrimented there.
Saturn is exalted in Libra, Jupiter gets clobbered again.
The earth cycle - the one we just got out of - was a pretty rough ride for humanity, but this. Is not like that.
If you got the definite impression that the world changed in 2020 - you weren't wrong.

Why is Air worse than Earth for humanity?

 

[JUPITERASC]

Why is the Air cycle less favorable to humans (Aquarius, sign of the man, being an air sign) than the Earth cycle?

Why is Air worse than Earth for humanity?

AS I'M OP of this thread I'M PROVIDING A CLARIFYING NOTE
FOR INTERESTED TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY BEGINNERS
notice that the quoted question is asked twice
and was answered
i.e. to be clear for any puzzled beginners:

the question was:

Why is the Air cycle less favorable to humans (Aquarius, sign of the man, being an air sign) than the Earth cycle?

the answer is
because

Because Saturn prevails and Jupiter gets clobbered during each conjunction.
Saturn rules Aquarius, Jupiter is overpowered.
Saturn is nothing special in Gemini, but Jupiter is detrimented there.
Saturn is exalted in Libra, Jupiter gets clobbered again.

the re-iterated question was

Why is Air worse than Earth for humanity?

because although:

The earth cycle - the one we just got out of - was a pretty rough ride for humanity,

HOWEVER
re: the most recent 2020 Great Conjunction

but this. Is not like that. If you got the definite impression that the world changed in 2020 - you weren't wrong.

.

 

[FraterAC]

The answer given does not state any difference between Air and Earth. It does not address the affinity humanity has to the mental world of Air. Asserting that something changed in 2020 does not explain anything, since it is the result of multiple (undiscussed) factors. It is anecdotal (if on a big scale). Neither does it demonstrate what changed in 2020 or how that relates specifically to Air.
Health and employment in general are ruled by Virgo (Earth). Finance and abundance by Taurus (Earth). Career and social standing by Capricorn (Earth). If the poster was referring to the 2020 pandemic and economic slowdown, it was clearly more related to Earth issues than to Air.
It's like saying the fact it rained yesterday proves the Moon was in a water sign.

 

[JUPITERASC]

The answer given does not state any difference between Air and Earth. It does not address the affinity humanity has to the mental world of Air. Asserting that something changed in 2020 does not explain anything, since it is the result of multiple (undiscussed) factors. It is anecdotal (if on a big scale). Neither does it demonstrate what changed in 2020 or how that relates specifically to Air.

thread responses are completely voluntary and FREE
&
in-depth personal tuition is not provided on this site for free
only very basic guidelines
and so
clearly it is essential to study the subject
for an understanding of TRADITIONAL MUNDANE ASTROLOGY

Bonatti on Mundane Astrology - Benjamin Dykes

A large work on mundane astrology: discovering the Lord of the Year and the significator of the king, the condition of the people, assigning zodiacal degrees to regions of the world, weather and natural disasters, war, comets, eclipses, fixed stars, the Head and Tail of the Dragon. Click here...

bendykes.com

Virgo (Earth).

note from OP re: TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY - VIRGO for beginners
In particular
The image of the Maiden is feminine, nocturnal
Domicile and exaltation of Mercury, depression of Venus

Taurus (Earth).

note from OP re: TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY - TAURUS
The image of the Bull is feminine, nocturnal
Domicile of Venus, exaltation of Moon

Capricorn (Earth).

note from OP re: TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY - CAPRICORN
The image of the Goat-Horned One is feminine, nocturnal
Domicile of Saturn, exaltation of Mars, depression of Jupiter,

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[FraterAC]

in-depth personal tuition is not provided on this site

No one is asking to be taught, just for the poster to clarify why they believe the assertion they do.
If the source for this contention that Air is inimical to humanity is Bonatti, where is it in Bonatti?
Note: these questions were addressed to the author of post #3, above.

 

[JUPITERASC]

No one is asking to be taught,

great - our forum remit exclues personal tuition

just for the poster to clarify why they believe the assertion they do.

"..This is the Traditional Astrology forum.
Out of all the different boards in this forum
this one is the home for traditional astrologers.

It was created so that traditional astrologers
can discuss traditional astrology with each other
without having to justify it to non-traditionalists

If the source for this contention that Air is inimical to humanity is Bonatti, where is it in Bonatti?

or be interrupted
by people disagreeing with traditional perspectives.

If you are not a traditional astrologer, you are welcome as a guest.
Good guests respect the rules of the house.

***Please Read Before Posting On This Board***

This is the Traditional Astrology forum. Out of all the different boards in this forum, this one is the home for traditional astrologers. It was created so that traditional astrologers can discuss traditional astrology with each other, without having to justify it to non-traditionalists or be...

www.astrologyweekly.com

Note: these questions were addressed to the author of post #3, above.

note: as OP
a reminder of thread topic
"..TRADITIONAL MUNDANE ASTROLOGY CHARTS are TOP of the HIERARCY of HOROSCOPIC ASTROLOGY CHARTS.."
re:

If the source for this contention that Air is inimical to humanity is Bonatti, where is it in Bonatti?

if genuinely interested simply study Bonatti
LINK IS FOR GENUINELY INTERESTED BEGINNERS

Bonatti on Mundane Astrology - Benjamin Dykes

A large work on mundane astrology: discovering the Lord of the Year and the significator of the king, the condition of the people, assigning zodiacal degrees to regions of the world, weather and natural disasters, war, comets, eclipses, fixed stars, the Head and Tail of the Dragon. Click here...

bendykes.com

.

 

[FraterAC]

No one is challenging the neo-Traditional astrology of this thread or even its methods. This is not a question about the validity of Traditional astrology, but about an individual statement.
It's an error to attempt to conflate all of Traditional astrology with one individual's statement. Rushing to the defense of Traditional astrology, and using that for a shield, does not have anything to do with the validity of one statement on a Traditional forum thread.
The question was directed to member Oddity concerning this statement

The air cycle overall is pretty inimical to humans as totalitarianism tends to be a big theme

Is there a basis for it, either some astrological authority, or historical events, for example, from the last Air cycle? Especially, since the question is the transition from an Earth cycle to an Air cycle, what connection is there between totalitarianism and Air signs?
How are Air signs judged inimical to man (since both Gemini and Aquarius are human signs)?
Since the pandemic and economic crises of 2020 clearly related more to Earth signs, how is the transition to Air signs demonstrated by those 2020 events?
Or was the poster suggesting other events from 2020, and if so, what events?

 

[JUPITERASC]

No one is challenging the neo-Traditional astrology of this thread

? Siriusly
NEO = GREEK = NEW/RECENT
aka
The OPPOSITE OF TRADITIONAL
therefore someone IS challenging

or even its methods. This is not a question about the validity of Traditional astrology,

great
because
TRADITIONAL MUNDANE ASTROLOGY is obviously TRADITIONAL

but about an individual statement.
It's an error to attempt to conflate all of Traditional astrology with one individual's statement.

Insinuating TRADITIONAL MUNDANE ASTROLOGY as NEO is erroneous

Rushing to the defense of Traditional astrology, and using that for a shield,

? this board IS our Traditional Astrology board

does not have anything to do with the validity of one statement on a Traditional forum thread.

i.e.
this thread IS TRADITIONAL
NOT NEO

"..Members who wish to explore
a combination of traditional and modern ideas
should feel free to start a new thread
in an appropriate forum for further discussion.."

The question was directed to member Oddity concerning this statement
Is there a basis for it, either some astrological authority, or historical events, for example, from the last Air cycle? Especially, since the question is the transition from an Earth cycle to an Air cycle, what connection is there between totalitarianism and Air signs? How are Air signs judged inimical to man (since both Gemini and Aquarius are human signs)? Since the pandemic and economic crises of 2020 clearly related more to Earth signs, how is the transition to Air signs demonstrated by those 2020 events? Or was the poster suggesting other events from 2020, and if so, what events?

As the OP of this thread topic
reminder
"..TRADITIONAL MUNDANE ASTROLOGY CHARTS are TOP of the HIERARCY
of HOROSCOPIC ASTROLOGY CHARTS.."

.

 

[FraterAC]

Since the body of what is currently practiced as Traditional astrology is a syncretic reconstruction of astrological techniques developed and practiced over nearly 2,000 years, and not a direct unbroken continuation of those techniques, it is not inappropriate to refer to them as Neo-Traditional.
That is not an attack on their usefulness. It is a statement of academic fact.
Saying any questioning of a statement on a Traditional thread is an attack on Traditional astrology itself is a logical error.
Would member Oddity themselves care to respond to my question?

 

[JUPITERASC]

Since the body of what is currently practiced as Traditional astrology is a syncretic reconstruction of astrological techniques developed and practiced over nearly 2,000 years, and not a direct unbroken continuation of those techniques, it is not inappropriate to refer to them as Neo-Traditional.

that IS NOT an academic statement of fact
since
Vettius Valens' Anthologiae
is the longest extant astrological work from antiquity
SO
it is unique
the author also being a practicing astrologer
the work includes more than 100 authentic horoscopes
of Valens' clients or associates, including his own
which is used as an example many times throughout the work
the work also includes tables & the description of algorithms
used by astrologers and mathematicians.
PROFESSOR Mark T Riley CSU

Valens perspective being that of a practicing astrologer
Valens was eager to preserve everything intact
for the benefit of future astrologers.

Valens simply compiled
without altering what he compiled
Certainly Valens commented on the various astrological techniques
but crucially, did not alter any.
That fact taken in tandem with Valen's work
being 'the longest extant astrological work from antiquity'
understandably obviously
that makes Valens work indubitably TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY .

That is not an attack on their usefulness. It is a statement of academic fact. Saying any questioning of a statement on a Traditional thread is an attack on Traditional astrology itself is a logical error.

Study Logic

Would member Oddity themselves care to respond to my question?

As the OP of this thread topic
a reminder:
"..TRADITIONAL MUNDANE ASTROLOGY CHARTS are TOP of the HIERARCY
of HOROSCOPIC ASTROLOGY CHARTS.."

"..Members who wish to explore
a combination
of traditional and "..NEO.." ideas
should feel free to start a new thread
in an appropriate forum for further discussion.."

.

 

[FraterAC]

Vettius Valens has been dead eighteen and a half centuries, and his writings mostly lost until recently. He can hardly be held up as proof of an unbroken, living tradition.

There is nothing in either Traditional or Modern astrology to indicate the transition of the Jupiter/Saturn cycle from the Earth to the Air triplicity portends anything inimical to humanity, nor does it have any relationship to the rise of what is termed totalitarianism in modern language.
If anything, the transition from Earth (physical and animal concerns) to Air (relationship and mental concerns) would be a positive and uplifting influence on human experience.

 

[conspiracy theorist]

@FraterAC

Robert Zoller wrote an essay regarding the Astrological Age of Aquarius, and how it would be a terrible time for humanity due to the oppressive nature of a domiciled Saturn "running the show". Yes, the air signs are "human" signs, but Libra and Aquarius are also classified as "Violent" signs (Aries, Libra, Scorpio, Capricorn and Aquarius are all violent signs due to being the domicile or exaltation of the malefics).

Aquarius being a Violent and Human sign -- an era inimical to humanity. The air triangle having two Violent Human signs may be the basis of Odd's perspective.

If I had access to essay mentioned I would post it.

P.S. Jupiter (the poster not the planet) doesn't do much but appeal to Authority.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Vettius Valens has been dead eighteen and a half centuries, and his writings mostly lost until recently. He can hardly be held up as proof of an unbroken, living tradition.

"..This is the Traditional Astrology forum.
Out of all the different boards in this forum
this one is the home for traditional astrologers.

It was created so that traditional astrologers
can discuss traditional astrology with each other
without having to justify it to non-traditionalists

There is nothing in either Traditional or Modern astrology to indicate the transition of the Jupiter/Saturn cycle from the Earth to the Air triplicity portends anything inimical to humanity, nor does it have any relationship to the rise of what is termed totalitarianism in modern language.

traditional astrologers
may discuss traditional astrology with each other
without having to justify it to non-traditionalists
or be interrupted
by people disagreeing with traditional perspectives.

If you are not a traditional astrologer, you are welcome as a guest.
Good guests respect the rules of the house.
"..Members who wish to explore
a combination
of traditional and "..NEO.." ideas
should feel free to start a new thread
in an appropriate forum for further discussion.."

 

[JUPITERASC]

If anything, the transition from Earth (physical and animal concerns) to Air (relationship and mental concerns) would be a positive and uplifting influence on human experience.

TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY
in fact that's erroneous
i.e.
"..Aquarius being a Violent and Human sign
-- an era inimical to humanity.."
also
"..The air triangle having two Violent Human signs.."

"..Robert Zoller wrote how it would be a terrible time for humanity
due to the oppressive nature of a domiciled Saturn "..running the show.."
Yes, the air signs are "..human.." signs
but
Libra and Aquarius are also classified as "..Violent.." signs...
... due to being the domicile or exaltation of the malefics.."

.