TRADITIONAL MUNDANE ASTROLOGY CHARTS are TOP of the HIERARCY of HOROSCOPIC ASTROLOGY CHARTS

[FraterAC]

reminder of thread topic:

"..TRADITIONAL MUNDANE ASTROLOGY CHARTS are TOP of the HIERARCY of HOROSCOPIC ASTROLOGY CHARTS.."​

and so if the LINDBERGH CELEBRITY CHART questioner
asks their question on CELEBRITY CHARTS BOARD

The question and the charts posted were for the OP to use to demonstrate the hierarchy of charts the topic is about.
If they can't do that, OK.

 

[FraterAC]

Was the book "On Conjunctions, Religions, and People"?

No. I don't remember the title. It's been years and the book's in storage now.
It was an analysis of Aries ingresses, or vernal equinox charts, for the years of Jupiter/Saturn conjunctions, correlated with various Mundane/historic events. The ingresses were referred to as "year transfers" and the conjunctions I believe as "revolutions." So I think the title was something like, "On the judgment of year transfers for the years of (great?) revolutions," or something similar.
I haven't been able to find it online to verify the title.
There were also horoscopes for some historic figures, heads of state.
Many of the charts were partial, missing positions of some of the planets. All were presented in rectangular format, using this form.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Ah - Thank you JupiterAsc!

no problem at all

.

 

[FraterAC]

demonstrate the hierarchy of charts the topic is about.
If they can't do that, OK.

 

[JUPITERASC]

.
QUOTE:
"..No one is required to read any chart request
and if people who have chart requests
want an astrological chart reading
"..Read My Chart.." type postings
found in the rest of the forum
will be moved to Read My Chart board.."

If one wishes to "..demonstrate.." a specific CELEBRITY CHART
then by all means do so
at:
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/index.php?forums/celebrity-astrology.56/
or:

Read My Chart

If you want to have your astrological chart read and do not post an astrological interpretation along with your chart request, your postings go here. No one is required to read any chart request and it is greatly appreciated if people who have chart requests acknowledge those who were kind...

www.astrologyweekly.com

OP Simply provides
the TRADITIONAL MUNDANE HOROSCOPIC ASTROLOGY HIERARCHY
for the use of any interested astrologers
who now have an opportunity to
utilise that information for themselves
"..If they can't do that, OK..."
i.e.
..

Is that Lindbergh's chart? I went to Charles Lindbergh Jr High School and remember he was born on feb 4th 1902, lol.

CELEBRITY ASTROLOGY board discussion clearly

This board IS NOT CELEBRITY CHARTS
i.e.
reminder of thread topic:

"..TRADITIONAL MUNDANE ASTROLOGY CHARTS are TOP of the HIERARCY of HOROSCOPIC ASTROLOGY CHARTS.."​

and so if the LINDBERGH CELEBRITY CHART questioner
asks their question on CELEBRITY CHARTS BOARD
i.e.
as advised:

You might want to move your charts to the traditional natal thread

i.e. chart reading requests are GENERAL ASTROLOGY Read My Chart board
or alternatively since LINDBERGH IS A CELEBRITY
CELEBRITY ASTROLOGY board

- you're more apt to get responses there

furthermore

IF ANY ASTROLOGER who has an interest in delineation of any natal chart
in tandem with TRADITIONAL MUNDANE HOROSCOPIC ASTROLOGY

simply follows the
TRADITIONAL MUNDANE ASTROLOGY HIERARCHY
which is now provided for the astrologer to use
as follows:

Grand Conjunction 1702
21 May 1702
4:01:37 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York
074°W00'37"
40°N42'26"

Great Mutation (Earth) 1802
17 Jul 1802
5:52:26 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York

Great Conjunction 2020
21 December 2020
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York

Great Malefic 2004
25 May 2004
1:20 AM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York
....is currently the operating Malefic Chart
and then the following will become operative....
Great Malefic 2034
26 Jun 2034
5:33:42 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York


2024 Aries Ingress
Federal Hall, New York

THEN
INSERT THE NATAL CHART YOU'RE DELINEATING HERE
That is its place in the TRADITIONAL MUNDANE hierarchy of charts.
keep in mind
thread responses are completely voluntary and FREE
&
in-depth personal tuition is not provided on this site for free
only very basic guidelines
and so is essential to study
and read the texts on the subject

and so
THEN by all means Delineate

.
.

 

[waybread]

Just a reminder not to keep bumping up essentially the identical post. We assume people read it the first time.

 

[JUPITERASC]

OP does not include "..demonstration.."

You got it, CT.
Saturn rules all the conjunctions in the air cycle.

i.e. the TRADITIONAL MUNDANE ASTROLOGY Great Conjunctions
so we're on topic as OP notes:
"..What is indicated by the great conjunctions
cannot be overridden by individual natal charts.."
Ibn Ezra
thus
if a mundane chart indicates war at a particular locality
THEN
everyone at that particular locality will experience war
REGARDLESS OF the indications in their respective natal charts

MUNDANE ASTROLOGY STUDIES
the astrological influences of Great Cycles
on Cities, Nations, Towns, Villages
and
any natal chart is subject
to the influences of the Mundane Astrological picture
for any Nation, City, Town, Village et al

TRADITIONAL Mundane astrology is very Hierarchical
Starting with the Grand Conjunction

and keep in mind
an Horary chart is below a Natal chart
& is lowest on the MUNDANE HIERARCHY

That's why it'll tend towards bad times. Covid was important because that's when the powers that shouldn’t be staeted to unveil the mass surveillance - of all of humanity. Vaccine cards were just the start - some of us lost jobs, pensions, and were under house arrest for a year. Ah, yes. The magical mandatory shots, the ones that kill, maim, and destroy immune systems and fertility. There'll be lots more where those came from. We're seeing the 15-minute cities plans being rolled out now - they'll morph into open air ghettoes. Famine will be a thing - notice how much farmland is being destroyed? And more. This is what happens when Saturn is holding the reins exclusively.

that's clear TRADITIONAL MUNDANE ASTROLOGY

Now, I suspect there will be occasional bright spots sometimes, somewhere, but the big thing is control over humans. You will own nothing and you will be happy. Now, if you happen to be part of the ruling class - you'll own most of the money and resources and you will be happy - I guess. The rest of us - not so much. Saturn is called the Greater Malefic for a reason. Sure, he has some good sides (skin, bones and teeth for a start), but left unchecked, as he is now, does not bode well for most of us.

.

 

[Oddity]

OP does not include "..demonstration.."

i.e. the TRADITIONAL MUNDANE ASTROLOGY Great Conjunctions
so we're on topic as OP notes:
"..What is indicated by the great conjunctions
cannot be overridden by individual natal charts.."
Ibn Ezra
thus
if a mundane chart indicates war at a particular locality
THEN
everyone at that particular locality will experience war
REGARDLESS OF the indications in their respective natal charts

MUNDANE ASTROLOGY STUDIES
the astrological influences of Great Cycles
on Cities, Nations, Towns, Villages
and
any natal chart is subject
to the influences of the Mundane Astrological picture
for any Nation, City, Town, Village et al

TRADITIONAL Mundane astrology is very Hierarchical
Starting with the Grand Conjunction

and keep in mind
an Horary chart is below a Natal chart
& is lowest on the MUNDANE HIERARCHY


that's clear TRADITIONAL MUNDANE ASTROLOGY

.

Thanks, Jupiter. I was going to bring up that if war comes to your country it'll affect you, too. We've seen plenty of that historically.
The Great Conjunctions affect everyone, and over- ride natal charts.
It'll be interesting to see how this affects those who would over-rule the world, though that may well end up as one for the historians. I seriously doubt that you or I, or most regular people, will have access to real news.
BTW, have you ever looked at Klaus's chart? Mars-Sarurn, conjunct in Aries. No birth time, I'd put it on the MC. For some reason the whole thing made me think of Haman (of Megillat Esther fame).
Would potst it, but the computer's dead and I don’t have much of anything on the phone.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Thanks, Jupiter.

no problem at all

I was going to bring up that if war comes to your country it'll affect you, too.

We've seen plenty of that historically.

Indubitably

The Great Conjunctions affect everyone, and over-ride natal charts.

good catch
that's very clear

It'll be interesting to see how this affects those who would over-rule the world,

definitely

though that may well end up as one for the historians. I seriously doubt that you or I, or most regular people, will have access to real news.

Quite

BTW, have you ever looked at Klaus's chart? Mars-Saturn, conjunct in Aries. No birth time, I'd put it on the MC. For some reason the whole thing made me think of Haman (of Megillat Esther fame). Would post it, but the computer's dead and I don’t have much of anything on the phone.

ah okay - interesting

KLAUS
but
IF correct DOB
SUN IS ASSEMBLED WITH SATURN
PARTILE-ISH
COMMENCING SYNODIC CYCLE

 

[Oddity]

no problem at all



Indubitably

good catch
that's very clear


definitely


Quite

ah okay - interesting

KLAUS
but
IF correct DOB
SUN IS ASSEMBLED WITH SATURN
PARTILE-ISH
COMMENCING SYNODIC CYCLE

Thank you, I obviously misremembered- it was Saturn in fall and Mars detrimented. Interesting.

 

[aqualovebot]

No. I don't remember the title. It's been years and the book's in storage now.
It was an analysis of Aries ingresses, or vernal equinox charts, for the years of Jupiter/Saturn conjunctions, correlated with various Mundane/historic events. The ingresses were referred to as "year transfers" and the conjunctions I believe as "revolutions." So I think the title was something like, "On the judgment of year transfers for the years of (great?) revolutions," or something similar.
I haven't been able to find it online to verify the title.
There were also horoscopes for some historic figures, heads of state.
Many of the charts were partial, missing positions of some of the planets. All were presented in rectangular format, using this form.
View attachment 114162

Ah I was wondering as I had recently acquired the book myself. I sadly do not think that's the book I have. I am not as avid of a reader of Masha Allah (I am not as proficient in Mundance, much more preferring Horary). If you happen to remember the book - I would love to know! If I am correct - Masha Allah says that each Jupiter/Saturn conjunction is important because it happens in the same triplicity? [If anyone knows if this correct please let me know.] In your mundance chart did it happen in the water triplicity?

As for how I use Mundane charts - I use it as background to the natal chart - if someone is very, very stricking then I would use it. I would be interested in hearing other's opnions on the matter as well!

 

[JUPITERASC]

If I am correct - Masha Allah says that each Jupiter/Saturn conjunction is important because it happens in the same triplicity? [If anyone knows if this correct please let me know.] In your mundance chart did it happen in the water triplicity?

this thread concerns the fact that
Jupiter's alignment with Saturn
occurs at intervals of just under 20 years
&
TOPS TRADITIONAL MUNDANE HOROSCOPIC ASTROLOGY HIERARCHY

The aspect is occasionally repeated due to a retrograde
of one or both planets.
Each successive conjunction
not counting retrograde repeats
occurs at a mean advance of
approximately 243 degrees relative to its predecessor
although from one alignment to the next
this arc can vary considerably.

Every third conjunction
i.e. once every 60 years
brings the alignment back
to its starting place, plus around 9 degrees:
this 60 year cycle is termed
FIRST ORDER RECURRENCE of the conjunction.

Every 40th conjunction - roughly once every 800 years -
brings the alignment back to within about 1 degree of its starting place:
this approximate 800 year cycle is termed SECOND ORDER RECURRENCE
aka GREAT MUTATION CYCLE


EXAMPLE IMAGE
IS OF RECENT JUPITER SATURN 2020 GREAT MUTATION 800 YEAR CYCLE
SECOND ORDER RECURRENCE

simply relocate
Great Conjunction 2020
21 December 2020
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York
& so
relocate the mundane chart(s) to YOUR COUNTRY
and
for maximum accuracy, use the "...foundation point..."
eg: Romania = Alba Iulia, not Bucharesti;
Japan = Kyoto, not Tokyo;
Spain = Toledo, not Madrid etc etc etc

As for how I use Mundane charts - I use it as background to the natal chart

to do that
begin with re-locating the Jupiter Saturn conjunction
to the country of the particular natal chart
&
use the "..foundation point.." of that country

- if someone is very, very stricking then I would use it. I would be interested in hearing other's opnions on the matter as well!

as stated:

Thanks, Jupiter. I was going to bring up that if war comes to your country it'll affect you, too. We've seen plenty of that historically. The Great Conjunctions affect everyone, and over- ride natal charts.

The TRADITIONAL MUNDANE HOROSCOPIC ASTROLOGY CHART
over-rides any natal

.

 

[aqualovebot]

this thread concerns the fact that
Jupiter's alignment with Saturn
occurs at intervals of just under 20 years
&
TOPS TRADITIONAL MUNDANE HOROSCOPIC ASTROLOGY HIERARCHY

The aspect is occasionally repeated due to a retrograde
of one or both planets.
Each successive conjunction
not counting retrograde repeats
occurs at a mean advance of
approximately 243 degrees relative to its predecessor
although from one alignment to the next
this arc can vary considerably.

Every third conjunction
i.e. once every 60 years
brings the alignment back
to its starting place, plus around 9 degrees:
this 60 year cycle is termed
FIRST ORDER RECURRENCE of the conjunction.

Every 40th conjunction - roughly once every 800 years -
brings the alignment back to within about 1 degree of its starting place:
this approximate 800 year cycle is termed SECOND ORDER RECURRENCE
aka GREAT MUTATION CYCLE


EXAMPLE IMAGE
IS OF RECENT JUPITER SATURN 2020 GREAT MUTATION 800 YEAR CYCLE
SECOND ORDER RECURRENCE

simply relocate
Great Conjunction 2020
21 December 2020
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York
& so
relocate the mundane chart(s) to YOUR COUNTRY
and
for maximum accuracy, use the "...foundation point..."
eg: Romania = Alba Iulia, not Bucharesti;
Japan = Kyoto, not Tokyo;
Spain = Toledo, not Madrid etc etc etc

to do that
begin with re-locating the Jupiter Saturn conjunction
to the country of the particular natal chart
&
use the "..foundation point.." of that country


as stated:


The TRADITIONAL MUNDANE HOROSCOPIC ASTROLOGY CHART
over-rides any natal

.

As always, thank you Jup! My follow up question - do you take triplicity into account?

 

[JUPITERASC]

As always, thank you Jup! My follow up question - do you take triplicity into account?

certainly
for example

Once in a while you get a mutation towards the end of the 240 year period. Like in 1980 when the conjunction jumped ahead to Libra instead of Virgo. We switched from the Earth cycle to the Air cycle with the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction in 2020. The air cycle overall is pretty inimical to humans as totalitarianism tends to be a big theme, and Saturn is stronger than Jupiter in each conjunction. So... Saturn themes

You got it, CT. Saturn rules all the conjunctions in the air cycle. That's why it'll tend towards bad times. Now, I suspect there will be occasional bright spots sometimes, somewhere, but the big thing is control over humans. You will own nothing and you will be happy. Now, if you happen to be part of the ruling class - you'll own most of the money and resources and you will be happy - I guess. The rest of us - not so much.

Saturn is called the Greater Malefic for a reason. Sure, he has some good sides (skin, bones and teeth for a start), but left unchecked, as he is now, does not bode well for most of us.

 

[aqualovebot]

certainly
for example

Thank you!

 

[Oddity]

Thank you!

Interestingly, the earth cycle was a pretty rough ride for we denizens of the planet, too. But Saturn only has triplicity in Taurus. My own eccentric view here so don't blame it on anyone else! I think Jupiter in Taurus isn't totally powerless, because Taurus is ruled by Venus and Venus is exalted in Jupiter's sign of Pisces, and Pisces and Taurus see each other and both planets are benefics. Again, my spun theory, do not blame anyone else!
What also perplexed me is why the Earth and Air cycles go from one to the next when they're the most difficult for us, and Water and Fire also follow each other.
480 years of bad, followed by 480 years being easier on the whole.
But I didn't design the thing, so I can't tell you why.
I wish we'd been born in far less Interesting times!

 

[athenian200]

One thing I'm curious about, though. This website says we already had a Grand Conjunction in Libra in the early 1980s...

Astrologer Richard Nolle's 3000-Year Jupiter-Saturn Conjunction Table

In fact, it appears that if this table is right, there were actually three Grand Conjunctions in Libra...

|DEC 31, 1980 | 09:17 PM | 000 | 09LI30 | 09LI30 |
|MAR 04, 1981 | 06:55 PM | 000 | 08LI06R | 08LI06R|
|JUL 24, 1981 | 04:13 AM | 000 | 04LI56 | 04LI56

One in 1980, and two in 1981. So, by that logic, wouldn't 1980 to about 2000 have been a worse time than 2000 to 2020? Most people I know say that the Year 2000 Election or 9/11 is when things started going wrong. So, wouldn't that imply that whatever energy we saw from around 1980 to 2000 was a preview of what's to come, and the 2000 Grand Conjunction in Taurus was a temporary reprieve from that?

Then again, the previous Taurus cycle was very close to the start of World War II, and the Capricorn cycle before that was the start of World War I... It's like, I can definitely see Saturnian energy being kind of rough in some ways, but I also find it hard to believe the Air signs are going to bring anything worse than... well, the last two World Wars. You know what I mean?

It could be that the Air signs are going to be bad in a different way than the Earth signs were. If the Earth signs were associated with global wars and fear of nuclear annihilation, then perhaps the Air signs will mostly involve other types of disasters, like the Y2K bug or COVID, that cause restriction and make it difficult to live our daily lives. The next grand conjunction isn't far from when the Unix 2038 bug is supposed to become a problem for older mainframes... hmm.

Oh, wait, I just saw when the Black Death was... the last time there was a Grand Conjunction in Aquarius! Maybe Aquarius in particular tends to bring that kind of thing about...

Anyway, this thread is very interesting and has given me some new concepts to chew on.

 

[Oddity]

One thing I'm curious about, though. This website says we already had a Grand Conjunction in Libra in the early 1980s...

Astrologer Richard Nolle's 3000-Year Jupiter-Saturn Conjunction Table

In fact, it appears that if this table is right, there were actually three Grand Conjunctions in Libra...



One in 1980, and two in 1981. So, by that logic, wouldn't 1980 to about 2000 have been a worse time than 2000 to 2020? Most people I know say that the Year 2000 Election or 9/11 is when things started going wrong. So, wouldn't that imply that whatever energy we saw from around 1980 to 2000 was a preview of what's to come, and the 2000 Grand Conjunction in Taurus was a temporary reprieve from that?

Then again, the previous Taurus cycle was very close to the start of World War II, and the Capricorn cycle before that was the start of World War I... It's like, I can definitely see Saturnian energy being kind of rough in some ways, but I also find it hard to believe the Air signs are going to bring anything worse than... well, the last two World Wars. You know what I mean?

It could be that the Air signs are going to be bad in a different way than the Earth signs were. If the Earth signs were associated with global wars and fear of nuclear annihilation, then perhaps the Air signs will mostly involve other types of disasters, like the Y2K bug or COVID, that cause restriction and make it difficult to live our daily lives. The next grand conjunction isn't far from when the Unix 2038 bug is supposed to become a problem for older mainframes... hmm.

Oh, wait, I just saw when the Black Death was... the last time there was a Grand Conjunction in Aquarius! Maybe Aquarius in particular tends to bring that kind of thing about...

Anyway, this thread is very interesting and has given me some new concepts to chew on.

1980 was a mutation (I may have said that earlier in the thread, not sure).
Once in a while 40-60 years before the cycle changes, you get a preview of coming attractions, so to speak, as the planets conjunct in the next sign (Libra instead of Virgo that time.
I wouldn't be so sure about another big war, or a nuclear one. Israel. Ukraine - the EU has decided it's ok for their countries to lob missiles into Russia.
Have you noticed that that building - is it the EU Parliament? seems to be based on Breugels' Tower of Babylon?
Could they be more obvious?
Or is it just me seeing it?

 

[FraterAC]

As to the conjunctions of which planets have to do with epidemics, refer to Richard Tarnas. A topic for another thread.
Because it goes beyond traditional usage.

 

[FraterAC]

OP does not include "..demonstration.."

If no example is presented, how does anyone here know for sure what technique is being discussed, or how to use this information?
How can the statements be seriously evaluated?
Without any clear authority and no examples, how can anyone know if there is anything to it or not?
Why does the OP believe and promote it?