Natal Mars Retrograde

[Blister]

I'm very interested in how the ancients perceived, and, did or didn't, utilize a natal mars, retrograde at birth. Any thoughts or suggestions for good info?

 

[JUPITERASC]

I'm very interested in how the ancients perceived, and, did or didn't, utilize a natal mars, retrograde at birth. Any thoughts or suggestions for good info?

Great question - an interesting topic from a Traditional astrological perspective


lecture by the late astrologer Alan White
on an introduction to Hellenistic astrology
including audio interview with Alan
about his life and work from 2010.
Alan began studying astrology seriously in the 1980s
and then in the mid-1990s he discovered Project Hindsight
and developed a deep interest in ancient astrology.
He created an introductory lecture on Hellenistic astrology using a flip chart
that he presented at a number of astrological meetings in the 2000s
and one of these presentations in 2001
led to Demetra George teaching a course on the subject at Kepler College

An important consideration in Hellenistic Astrology is:
whether a planet is:
“..able to conduct its business..”
or not able to conduct its business

When a planet is in the interval of first station to second station
i.e. retrograde,
then
a planet is not fit to conduct its business
because
it is described as “...walking backwards...”
ROBERT SCHMIDT - PROJECT HINDSIGHT http://www.projecthindsight.com/

meanwhile:
some brief USEFUL INFO ON some CONDITIONS RELATIVE TO THE SUN

When a planet is in the interval
from heliacal rising up to first station
or
from second station up to the heliacal setting
the planet is capable of appearing
and therefore
is in a place conducive to the conduct of its business.

HELIACAL
The heliacal rising of a star
or other body
such as the moon, a planet or a constellation
occurs
when it first becomes visible above the eastern horizon
for a brief moment just before sunrise
after a period of time when it had not been visible

When a planet is making a Station and/or phasis,
it is not only capable of appearing but is also intensified
Robert Schmidt - able to read & translate Ancient Greek at a scholarly level
says that:
Phasis means “..making an appearance..”
or
“..sudden dramatic showing of something..”
It can also mean:
“..something that speaks..”
or we can say that it means:
“..an appearance that speaks..”

PHASIS describes a planet making a heliacal rising
aka rising before the sun - standardized to 15 degrees by Hellenistic astrology
within 7 days before of after native’s birth.

Rumen Kolev one of the few living practitioners of Ancient Babylonian Astrology
based on personal observations of the skies,
states that:
the 15 degrees standardisation
is obviously a variable
dependent upon local conditions

When any planet is “..under the sun’s beams..”
i.e. within 15 ecliptic degrees of the sun,
the planet is considered not capable of conducting its business
due to being “..drained or unempowered..”

However, there are modifications to this
such as:
if a planet is in its Exaltation, own terms or own bounds or dignity
THEN
a planet is considered to be:
“..in its own chariot..”
and therefore
“..protected and/or shielded..”
from the potential '..harm..' of combustion.
Traditional astrology considers the TOTALITY OF TESTIMONIES
&
considers also

 

[Blister]

Great question - an interesting topic from a Traditional astrological perspective


lecture by the late astrologer Alan White
on an introduction to Hellenistic astrology
including audio interview with Alan
about his life and work from 2010.
Alan began studying astrology seriously in the 1980s
and then in the mid-1990s he discovered Project Hindsight
and developed a deep interest in ancient astrology.
He created an introductory lecture on Hellenistic astrology using a flip chart
that he presented at a number of astrological meetings in the 2000s
and one of these presentations in 2001
led to Demetra George teaching a course on the subject at Kepler College

An important consideration in Hellenistic Astrology is:
whether a planet is:
“..able to conduct its business..”
or not able to conduct its business

When a planet is in the interval of first station to second station
i.e. retrograde,
then
a planet is not fit to conduct its business
because
it is described as “...walking backwards...”
ROBERT SCHMIDT - PROJECT HINDSIGHT http://www.projecthindsight.com/

meanwhile:
some brief USEFUL INFO ON some CONDITIONS RELATIVE TO THE SUN

When a planet is in the interval
from heliacal rising up to first station
or
from second station up to the heliacal setting
the planet is capable of appearing
and therefore
is in a place conducive to the conduct of its business.

HELIACAL
The heliacal rising of a star
or other body
such as the moon, a planet or a constellation
occurs
when it first becomes visible above the eastern horizon
for a brief moment just before sunrise
after a period of time when it had not been visible

When a planet is making a Station and/or phasis,
it is not only capable of appearing but is also intensified
Robert Schmidt - able to read & translate Ancient Greek at a scholarly level
says that:
Phasis means “..making an appearance..”
or
“..sudden dramatic showing of something..”
It can also mean:
“..something that speaks..”
or we can say that it means:
“..an appearance that speaks..”

PHASIS describes a planet making a heliacal rising
aka rising before the sun - standardized to 15 degrees by Hellenistic astrology
within 7 days before of after native’s birth.

Rumen Kolev one of the few living practitioners of Ancient Babylonian Astrology
based on personal observations of the skies,
states that:
the 15 degrees standardisation
is obviously a variable
dependent upon local conditions

When any planet is “..under the sun’s beams..”
i.e. within 15 ecliptic degrees of the sun,
the planet is considered not capable of conducting its business
due to being “..drained or unempowered..”

However, there are modifications to this
such as:
if a planet is in its Exaltation, own terms or own bounds or dignity
THEN
a planet is considered to be:
“..in its own chariot..”
and therefore
“..protected and/or shielded..”
from the potential '..harm..' of combustion.
Traditional astrology considers the TOTALITY OF TESTIMONIES
&
considers also

Thank you Jupiter for that bountiful post of info. It is taking me some time to get through all of it, but this touches on what I was asking about:

When a planet is in the interval of first station to second station
i.e. retrograde,
then
a planet is not fit to conduct its business
because
it is described as “...walking backwards...”

ROBERT SCHMIDT - PROJECT HINDSIGHT http://www.projecthindsight.com

 

[JUPITERASC]

Thank you Jupiter for that bountiful post of info.

no problem at all

It is taking me some time to get through all of it,

it's dense - take time to process

but this touches on what I was asking about:

it's all connected

When a planet is in the interval of first station to second station
i.e. retrograde,
then
a planet is not fit to conduct its business
because
it is described as “...walking backwards...”

ROBERT SCHMIDT - PROJECT HINDSIGHT http://www.projecthindsight.com

 

[aqualovebot]

I'm very interested in how the ancients perceived, and, did or didn't, utilize a natal mars, retrograde at birth. Any thoughts or suggestions for good info?

Jumping in here although JupiterASC has done a wonderful job answering this. It's important to remember what retrogradation is - the planet is either moving to conjunct or oppose the sun. In my findings Oppositions are usually a far worse form of retrogradation - as both the said planet and the Sun fundamentally disagreeing on something. It is quite an affliction - add that of course that the planet going backwards agaisnt his own nature! Conjunctions are a tricker subject - Mars combust in any sign that is not his own and he undergoes what many would call a return of virtue, Mars combust in his own sign - it's not as bad. There are a couple other factors to keep in mind for example does Mars have any dignity? Does the Sun have any dignity? How does the depositor feel about either planet? Mars is also a little funny planet when it comes to retrogradation - Mars square the sun and it tends to slow down a lot - it stations direct (or out of retrogradation) when it trines the sun. Imagine Mars as a track runner - running backwards is already quite an affliction - running backwards to meet someone who already loves you is a far better experience then an enemy (Combustion or Opposition in its detriment) or someone who is indifferent to you.

 

[Blister]

Jumping in here although JupiterASC has done a wonderful job answering this. It's important to remember what retrogradation is - the planet is either moving to conjunct or oppose the sun. In my findings Oppositions are usually a far worse form of retrogradation - as both the said planet and the Sun fundamentally disagreeing on something. It is quite an affliction - add that of course that the planet going backwards agaisnt his own nature! Conjunctions are a tricker subject - Mars combust in any sign that is not his own and he undergoes what many would call a return of virtue, Mars combust in his own sign - it's not as bad. There are a couple other factors to keep in mind for example does Mars have any dignity? Does the Sun have any dignity? How does the depositor feel about either planet? Mars is also a little funny planet when it comes to retrogradation - Mars square the sun and it tends to slow down a lot - it stations direct (or out of retrogradation) when it trines the sun. Imagine Mars as a track runner - running backwards is already quite an affliction - running backwards to meet someone who already loves you is a far better experience then an enemy (Combustion or Opposition in its detriment) or someone who is indifferent to you.

Mars in Cancer Rx and in Sun in Aquarius. No dignity, lol and for certain. Grateful that a Sun-Neptune square and a Venus in Pisces is open to forgiveness of lack of dignity while conjunct a natal jupiter saturn conjunction in Capricorn. "Let me tell you about Festivus" lol.
On a serious note - I see, experience/experienced and attest to this - A Mars retrograde will keep a fight unfinished alive until the day s/he dies.
"It's not over and you don't even know it started."
Mars Cancer retro 'nationalists' never forget what it took to get them where they were - whether it's a farm, a cow or shack. We fight on for a reason.

 

[aqualovebot]

Mars in Cancer Rx and in Sun in Aquarius. No dignity, lol and for certain. Grateful that a Sun-Neptune square and a Venus in Pisces is open to forgiveness of lack of dignity while conjunct a natal jupiter saturn conjunction in Capricorn. "Let me tell you about Festivus" lol.
On a serious note - I see, experience/experienced and attest to this - A Mars retrograde will keep a fight unfinished alive until the day s/he dies.
"It's not over and you don't even know it started."
Mars Cancer retro 'nationalists' never forget what it took to get them where they were - whether it's a farm, a cow or shack. We fight on for a reason.

Mars in cancer has dignity by triplicity - although in its fall. So while he may be in the enemy land - he is at the very least on the battlefield! I can't speak to much of the chart without seeing it - but this Venus in Pisces if still in trine with Mars may be able to help and strengthen it lots as it likes Mars by triplicity and has lots to give.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Mars in Cancer Rx

To get to know the HOUSE INFLUENCE
look to the planet that RULES the house.

The ruler of a house is the planet the rules the SIGN
on the cusp of that house.
i.e.
The planet that RULES a house
is in charge of the affairs of that house
&
is the manager of that part of your life.

When something goes wrong in the affairs of a house
the planet that rules that house takes action
to address the problem.

And the way the problem is addressed
with that particular part of your life
is determined by
THE CONDITION of the ruling planet of the SIGN
of that house

.

 

[Blister]

To get to know the HOUSE INFLUENCE
look to the planet that RULES the house.

The ruler of a house is the planet the rules the SIGN
on the cusp of that house.
i.e.
The planet that RULES a house
is in charge of the affairs of that house
&
is the manager of that part of your life.

When something goes wrong in the affairs of a house
the planet that rules that house takes action
to address the problem.

And the way the problem is addressed
with that particular part of your life
is determined by
THE CONDITION of the ruling planet of the SIGN
of that house

.

yes. but then you get into house systems.
mars retro 3 degrees shy of 12th house from 11th in placidus.
equal house mars in 12th.
Do I push it forward or go backward as Lilly would?

12th house is ruled by moon.

 

[JUPITERASC]

yes. but then you get into house systems.

there are multiple TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY CONSIDERATIONS before that
such as:
is the retrograde planet rising before the sun
within 7 days before
OR
after native’s birth.

mars retro 3 degrees shy of 12th house from 11th in placidus.
equal house mars in 12th.
Do I push it forward or go backward as Lilly would?
12th house is ruled by moon.

 

[Blister]

Mars in cancer has dignity by triplicity - although in its fall. So while he may be in the enemy land - he is at the very least on the battlefield! I can't speak to much of the chart without seeing it - but this Venus in Pisces if still in trine with Mars may be able to help and strengthen it lots as it likes Mars by triplicity and has lots to give.

pardon my late response. Wow! That is wild and no one has ever said it so simply before (that I've ever read).

I am a proponent of Mars in Cancer and especially Mars in Cancer retrograde because there is no historian of war like us. The moony mars people know what I'm talking about. Doesn't matter if it's a scuffle at the grocery store about being over charged or taking up arms to defend a country and way of life.

It's not over yet and you don't even know it startedi

This is where I see ancestral psyches and DNA kick in.

Did you come from a passive war-less history or from a there-is-more-out-there history?
That's how I divide the world as a Mars Cancer retrogade and there is little grey area between, imo.
Survival is War.
My Mars is in 11th - three dog hairs from 12th in placidus/ 3 dog hairs into 12th in porphry. I'm never sure. Same as my natal venus - fence sitter on my 9th house cusp - less than 30 seconds away from 8th house. In porphry, 8th.

House systems create variations of themes. Aspects don't

My Mars retro is unaspected. Yet people see me as contentious and pugnacious, lol.

 

[Blister]

I had my settings on unwatch and here I am today, going through my posts to see that I have missed many responses/replies and first, thank you and second, I'm loving this GOLD BOLD text lol.

 

[Blister]

To get to know the HOUSE INFLUENCE
look to the planet that RULES the house.

The ruler of a house is the planet the rules the SIGN
on the cusp of that house.
i.e.
The planet that RULES a house
is in charge of the affairs of that house
&
is the manager of that part of your life.

When something goes wrong in the affairs of a house
the planet that rules that house takes action
to address the problem.

And the way the problem is addressed
with that particular part of your life
is determined by
THE CONDITION of the ruling planet of the SIGN
of that house

.

You just pointed out something so simple that I forget it every day. Mars rules my 10th house, Let me take care of you and protect you and others has been my lifelong drive and motivation with a gnarly Mars retro Cancer on cusp of 12th. Probably why I sideways people and then snatch 'em with my big crabby claw and drag them to my rock cave, lol. Whatever it is, it's all about survival and living another day. Thank you in belation for the good news.

 

[Blister]

there are multiple TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY CONSIDERATIONS before that
such as:
is the retrograde planet rising before the sun
within 7 days before
OR
after native’s birth.

can I google that?

It's wild when Mars is retrograde for a grip. Once it gets out of the tunnel, it rolls forward like a cannon ball and passes at least two houses before it settles in a for decent ride, waiting to go back and recreate some unfinished business.

1961 Mars retro 0'48. You tell me?

 

[JUPITERASC]

can I google that?

It's wild when Mars is retrograde for a grip. Once it gets out of the tunnel, it rolls forward like a cannon ball and passes at least two houses before it settles in a for decent ride, waiting to go back and recreate some unfinished business.

1961 Mars retro 0'48. You tell me?

Stationary/retrograde

Traditional Astrology Chart Calculator, Hellenistic Online Software

www.Astro-Seek.com - Seek and meet people born on the same date as you

horoscopes.astro-seek.com

.

 

[FraterAC]

My Mars retro is unaspected.

Isn't Mars square Venus and sesquiquadrate Neptune?
Oh, sorry. This is Trad territory.
If you recon aspects by sign, then Mars is trine Venus, opposition Jupiter and Saturn, and sextile the MNN. Correct?
No matter what world we're in, I see aspects. No?

 

[JUPITERASC]

...sesquiquadrate Neptune?

Oh, sorry. This is Trad territory.

siriusly simply use edit feature to edit out

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[JUPITERASC]

My Mars retro is unaspected.

TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY - THEN all planets are IN AVERSION
to natal Mars

I'm very interested in how the ancients perceived, and, did or didn't, utilize a natal mars, retrograde at birth. Any thoughts or suggestions for good info?

- an interesting topic from a Traditional astrological perspective
MORE INFO