In traditional astrology, is it worse for Mars and Saturn to be dignified or debilitated?

[geminimercury]

In Hellenistic books, the reason why Mars is more potent in a Daychart it because Mars is hot, and "Day" chart heat up Mars Malefic nature more.
While Night chart, Saturn is cold, so "Nigh" chart make Saturn Malefic nature even more cold.

As for why Hellenistic say Mars prefer to be in Scorpio than Aries, it has nothing to do with Day or Night chart, but it has to do with TRIPLICTY Lords.
Read this Trigon table below.

Mars is a "night" planet nocturnal, he prefer to his night sign Scorpio.
Saturn has ALWAYS been a "day" planet diurnal, he prefers to be in his day sign Aquarius.

Look at the table below, Saturn has TRIPLICITY Lord in "AIR" Trigon, this is why Saturn just more comfortable in Aquarius.
Look at Mars, he is the TRIPLICITY Lord in Water Trigon, this is why Mars prefer to be in Scorpio than Aries.

Those who Sect light is a Water sign, and if their Mars in Scorpio, Mars double the dose, Domicile and Triplicity Lord in Water Trigon.
As if those with Sect light in Fire sign, and if their Mars is in Aries, Mars only Domicile, but sorry Mars does NOT have Triplicity Lord under Aries (Fire Trigon).

I did NOT say this, Hellenistic say this, you not have to agree, but it doesn't change the fact that in Hellenistic books it say this.

 

[geminimercury]

I use myself as an example on this Sect and Triplicity.

Mars is the Triplicity Lord in Water Trigon (Venus Mars Moon). NOT in Fire Trigon which is (Sun Jupiter Saturn)

I'm Water Sun and Water Ascendant, so the only Trigon I can look at is the Water Trigon, Hellenistic use your Sun or Moon whcih is your Sect light that where the Trigon you fall in.
Because I am Water Sun, my Mars in Scorpio, Mars has even more power, he Domicile, spin Direct, is the Triplicity Lord of Water Trigon, Trine Sun, Trine Mercury, Trine Ascendant. Square Venus.

Now if I was Aries Mars, Mars does not have the Triplicity Lord in a Sect light Water Trigon, and Aries Mars cannot Trine my Sun or Trine my Ascendant, Scorpio Mars very well can.

Sect is very important in Hellensitic.
Second you bet is Triplicity Lord.

I did not say this, Hellenistic astrology said it.

I'm just waiting for this Mars of mine see if it will help me this year.
All big events in my life is related to Mars Profection Lord year.
Step feet on airplane came to USA permanently is Mars Profection Lord year.
Got married is Mars Profection Lord year.
Got pregnant 5 years later after married is Mars Profection Lord year.
This year is Mars Profection Lord year, I'm waiting for a result in something.

And in Hellenistic look at your Lot of Marriage it will tell you something. If your Lot of Marriage is Aries or Scorpio that means it Ruler is Mars, this explain why for me.

There also a Lot of Death in Hellenistic, my Lot of Death is just happen to be Rule by Saturn. Saturn will be responsible to activate my death. And my Saturn is in Scorpio with my Scorpio Mars, sorry I don't care the generational Scorpio Pluto, it moot to me. If anything going to happen, it be Mars and Saturn activate it.

I actually was able to predict my own death, lol. Saturn the Profection Lord in that upcoming year, but Mars is Angular in the Primary Direction. So let see what will happen lol.

Maybe Mars the Out of Sect Greatest Malefic in my chart if Mars nice enough can help me escape my death, pretty sure I will die that year. Primary Direction point straight to it.

I study Hellenistic, so these fatalistic stuff Valens say, I believe in, haha

Primary Direction (Hellenistic technique) is very accurate in my chart, when my son died, Primary Direction Saturn was Angular. Mars was no where involve in the Primary Direction that year.
Same with when my dad died, Primary Direction was ALL on Saturn, Mars not even anywhere involve in it.
When I lost both my dad and my child, Primary Direction both were on Saturn--my In Sect Lesser Malefic.

I'm still testing this Sect thing, lol.

Read this about Primary Direction:

Astrological Predictive Techniques | Primary Directions | 1. Ascensions and Bounds - Seven Stars Astrology

A tutorial in the early use of primary directions. Primary directions are a celebrated predictive technique of traditional astrology. Their use dates back 2,000 years. This article explores some early practical uses of the technique from Hellenistic and Persian medieval astrology.

sevenstarsastrology.com

Primary direction is one of the oldest methods in Ancient astrology for predicting events. It indicates the year of life when an event shown in a birth chart will occur.
It line up in my chart exactly, all the big events in my life.
And I can predict my own death use this method.
And in Primary Direction, the most painful years of my life the Promiser is always SATURN. Mars was NOT anywhere even near it.

I not sure if Mars is my Greatest Malefic anymore.
Sect tell me Mars is my Greatest Malefic
But Primary Direction Promiser is not telling me that, it point to Saturn.

But because of the freaking Sect concept, I'm giving Saturn the benefic of the doubt always.
Saturn which is my In Sect, it has to be nicer to me than Mars, but seem like it not, for sure NOT in Primary Direction.

 

[geminimercury]

I just look up Trump Primary Direction, haha. Now I am further sure Trump will win the election coming up.

The oldest method which is Primary Election use by Hellenistic, I just look at Trump Primary Direction, if his birth time is correct, I can say this with confident, Primary Direction point to a Trump win the 2024 election.

Mark my word on this, we will see how this turn out.

Sorry I go strictly on the 7 inner planets of Hellenistic. I don't use Chiron and outer generational planets like modern. Basically all modern astrologers said Kamala will win. But to me Trump Primary Direction say he will win.

Let wait and see.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Thanks, JUPITERASC!

no problem at all

Yeah, I think the kind of stuff you covered in your last two posts get to the heart of what I was trying to ask initially,

great

though I admittedly didn't ask in quite the right way.

so you'd ask the question differently now - that's interesting

.

 

[Shiz4Brainz]

Venus is benefic because Venus only wants her own desires fulfilled to the benefit of herself and she or he will find a partner that aligns with what they want to not handle the burden of the barren land around them alone.

Jupiter also has a penchant to greed, leaving the state of growth mentally to growth and materialism everywhere else.

Both planets bind to the common belief structure of man in it's current time, not free.


Both are only benefic if they have the freedom to their natural selves and are nurtured to be aligned with the principles which is in good stead for the current singular individual needs.

Nurture. Sun & Moon.

But people are crafty and so we remain in bondage.



Further understanding is found in Tarot. My birth cards.

The Lovers - The Devil Tarot Birth Cards

Are The Lovers and The Devil your Tarot birth cards? Learn the 3 gifts, 3 challenges, and 3 crucial pieces of advice that are meant for you.

www.tarot.com

 

[JUPITERASC]

..

This is somewhat interesting. It seems that even the idea of Saturn and Mars as malefic and Venus and Jupiter as benefic is itself a bit simplistic, even within traditional astrology.
So, I guess the basic idea there is that Saturn and Mars are seen as more likely to be malefic than other planets, but whether that's actually the case in a specific chart depends on many factors.

MARS is the LESSER MALEFIC
SATURN is the GREATER MALEFIC

VENUS is the LESSER BENEFIC
JUPITER is the GREATER BENEFIC

NEVERTHELESS thank you for highlighting
the importance of the TOTALITY OF THE TESTIMONIES of the SPECIFIC CHART

.

 

[Shiz4Brainz]

For the fixed minded on Saturn in 12th.

Lunar Nodes in the Sixth and Twelfth Houses

Houses six and twelve are often seen as inauspicious houses. Not only are they cadent, they are also averse to the horizon.

www.alicesparklykat.com

My Nodes are SN in 6th and North in 12th.

Saturn is excellent in the 12th if Saturn is in Capricorn in Nocturnal sect, terrible in Diurnal since the light takes our time away and we overthrow the wisdom of suffering which brings wisdom, teaching and all the goodness of Saturn.

We reconnect to the divine, the creator, the all in everything, nothing is separate.
All loving and trying to bring peace.

The balance between Earthly things and those of the spiritual.

 

[geminimercury]

Modern astrology romanticize Mars in Aries in a Fire sign is better than in Scorpio. Sorry, Nope. Modern leave out alot of info. Mars is a Nocturnal NIGHT planet first of all. You want Fire sign you go find the Sun the Day planet.

Triplicity Lord Trigon, Mars in Aries has No Triplicity in Fire Trigon, that go to the Daytime Sect planets Sun Jupiter Saturn

Fire Trigon: Sun Jupiter Saturn, as how it should be. These 3 planets lead the Sect light of Day.
Water Trigon: Venus Mars Moon, as how it should be. These 3 planets lead the Sect light of Night.

Mars in Scorpio which is Domicile always has the Triplicity Lord.

The Noctural Night planet Mars will always prefer to be in Scorpio. Modern totally skip the whole Triplicity skim and forget that Mars is a Noctural planet.

Again I didn't say this, books say it, and I am sure Mars will say the same thing as he is NOCTURAL planet. His Sect light is Night time.

Now let look at Venus, sorry Venus is more comfortable in Taurus than Libra. Look at the Triplicity Trigon, Venus as Triplicity in Earth sign. Again Venus is a NIGHT planet. She prefer the Taurus Night sign, than Libra Day sign.

This is why I don't follow modern, leave a bunch of stuff out and go to zillions of Asteroids in the sky. Nobody care about Chiron in Hellenistic.

 

[Shiz4Brainz]

Ok we get it Scorpio is amazing.

However Mars in Cap is in that chart too in the night sect, which is backwards and hilarious in logical terms since her domicile is Saturn.

 

[Shiz4Brainz]

Conor McGregor,

Day sect. Aries Mars.

Definitely notorious and a very good fighter, but he won and got what he wanted, nowhere did this person say he wanted to be known as some pariah of morality, he is the anti-thesis of morality, he don't care as long as he gets what he wants.

Who is losing here? us in our perception of him? He already has what he wants... LOL.

An evil person who has a weak Saturn here, the morality part and justice part of Sagittarius is lost to Saturn where it is very weak.

His bones are weak too, Saturn rules this. LMAO.

Washed up and used all his energy into materialism.

[Deleted non-astrological video. - Moderator]

 

[JUPITERASC]

I use myself as an example on this Sect and Triplicity
Sect is very important in Hellensitic.
Second you bet is Triplicity Lord.
I did not say this, Hellenistic astrology said it
I study Hellenistic, so these fatalistic stuff Valens say, I believe in, haha

TRIPLICITY LORDS

 

[geminimercury]

Read the Triplicity Lord again

Sun Jupiter Saturn are DAY planet, Saturn will ALWAYS be comfortable in Aquarius than Capricorn

Saturn has Triplicity Lord in Air Trigon which is Saturn Mercury Jupiter

Saturn a DAY time planet do NOT have Triplicity in Water or Earth Trigon or the the Night Sect

Sorry to burst Capricorn Saturn bubbles, Capricorn is a feminine Night sign, Saturn is a Masculine Day sign, Saturn will always prefer to be in Aquarius where he has TIRPLCITY Lord in, the Air Trigon, read this image below

 

[JUPITERASC]

Conor McGregor,

Chart is Rodden Rating A
A is Data source from memory
Data as quoted by the person, kin, friend, or associate.
These data all come from someone's memory, family legend, or hearsay.
When the quote is from a public figure given in public, it may be questionable.
Please keep in mind that public figures answer a question in public
to be accommodating; therefore, the time given may not be accurate.

.

 

[geminimercury]

I have Capricorn Jupiter and Capricorn Neptune which are the rulers of Pisces both in Capricorn

You do not know my chart, I can post anybody chart, I can go post a Gemini Sun with a Gemini Mercury and a Pisces Moon chart and say it mine even.

I don't care what you believe in Shiz4Brainz, you are entitle to what you believe in, I am entitle to post about Triplicity in a TRADITIONAL board

We just have to agree to disagree

Again, I will say Saturn prefer to be in Aquarius than Capricorn, Saturn is a Day planet, in a Day Sect, and has Triplicity Lord in Air Trigon

I do not want to further engage with you on this conversation

 

[geminimercury]

Lol how do you know my Sun sign or whatever sign, I can post anybody chart and say it mine.
This chart can even be mine, I born in China. My username is GeminiMercury, you can't be a Pisces and have a Gemini Mercury, Mercury can only be at most is 1 sign from the Sun.

This could be my chart: https://i.postimg.cc/SQJn4zj7/My-Chart-June19.jpg

 

[Osamenor]

All,

This thread has been seriously trolled. There are so many posts either trolling or responding to the trolling that I'm closing it temporarily to clean up. It will be reopened when the work is done.

Closed for cleaning,
Osamenor

Update: Cleanup done and thread reopened. Should be troll free now.

 

[waybread]

I just look up Trump Primary Direction, haha. Now I am further sure Trump will win the election coming up.

The oldest method which is Primary Election use by Hellenistic, I just look at Trump Primary Direction, if his birth time is correct, I can say this with confident, Primary Direction point to a Trump win the 2024 election.

Mark my word on this, we will see how this turn out.

Sorry I go strictly on the 7 inner planets of Hellenistic. I don't use Chiron and outer generational planets like modern. Basically all modern astrologers said Kamala will win. But to me Trump Primary Direction say he will win.

Let wait and see.

I hope you will post your prediction using primary directions on who will win the presidential election

Predictions for the 2024 Presidential Election

My prediction is that Donald J. Trump will win the election on Nov 5TH, 2024. 10TH House is the main feature one looks at to predict a win of this kind to be the leader of the country. What is the condition of the House in their natal map? What planets are crossing that House on that day? What...

www.astrologyweekly.com

Did you look at Kamala Harris's chart with primary directions, as well?

 

[conspiracy theorist]

I was going to say the same thing. It would be good if you post it publicly (on one of the presidential prediction threads) so that we can see your working + for educational purposes.

 

[geminimercury]

I did not look at Kamala Harris Primary Direction at all, so ha.! this is on me, my prediction might be wrong then. I will go look at her after I eat dinner.

I am just a student in Hellenistic so I am still learning about Primary Direction, Directions/Distributions method of Hellenistic.

I found it accurate in my case, as it answer the question of which was the worser Malefics (Mars or Saturn) during the hardest years of my life that was when my father died and my own child died. I found my answer in there in Primary Direction method, it Saturn.

I'm still defending Saturn due to the freaking Sect concept, but Primary Direction it multiple incidents, many years that I consider the most painful years of my life, the Promiser were all Saturn. I can't blame Mars.

And Primary Direction matches with all the big events happended in my life too.
But that just my case only. It might not matches other people charts and their life events.

But it a tool for me to help figure out which Malefic is worser in my chart.

Birth Time Rectification, Online Astrology | Astro-Seek.com

www.Astro-Seek.com - Seek and meet people born on the same date as you

horoscopes.astro-seek.com

Primary Directions can be see in that link. if you want top see your Primary Directions.

 

[athenian200]

..

MARS is the LESSER MALEFIC
SATURN is the GREATER MALEFIC

VENUS is the LESSER BENEFIC
JUPITER is the GREATER BENEFIC

NEVERTHELESS thank you for highlighting
the importance of the TOTALITY OF THE TESTIMONIES of the SPECIFIC CHART

.

Right, that makes sense.

So, does that mean there is, indeed, a "default perspective" where Mars and Saturn are malefic and Venus and Jupiter are benefic, but which doesn't always hold up under scrutiny of an individual chart?

Or is the way the term is being used different when referring to the lesser/greater malefic, than just when saying a planet is acting as a functional malefic?

Kind of a technical point, I know, but it's just that now I've seen examples of situations where Mars or Saturn can work for rather than against the chart native. Which I guess would mean... under the right circumstances, the malefic planets wouldn't tend function as malefics in a specific chart. I guess that's the right way to say it?