JUPITERASC
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Parts derived from the April 2, 3 C.E. [A.D.] chart for Jesus{?}
- Thread starter piercethevale
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piercethevale
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...also, I see now that I certainly didn't help matters much with the sloppy bit of proof reading I did or just neglected to do as that sentence I wrote should have read:
"Is this possibly a Rabbi's message about as to what to keep an eye open for ...but a message that has been 'scrambled" deliberately as like some sensitive information being encoded?"
As I wrote in my book it was the numerous times that I had come across inference by Jewish scholars, Kabbalists and in the writings of Rudhyar that the prerequisite for the "Messiah" is a "Magen David" {i.e. Star of David, Star of Solomon, Grand Sextile} must appear in the natal chart* that what drove me to search through a twenty year window for possible Magen David configurations centering around the beginning of the year 1A.D. {or C.E. for those that prefer}
I bleieve that the Rabbi {and other qualified and knowledgeable Rabbi's} knew what that exact configuration is predicted to be and certainly wouldn't give that information out to the general public.
Also the fact that the glyph for Staurn is in the middle of his diagram with a symetrically aligned square surrounding it is implying, in my humble estimation, to be indicating that Saturn is also involved in this prerequisite configuration in a square aspect to three unknows and if you think about it you're likely to reach the same conclusion that I did that those unknowns can only be the three planets that are immediately beyond Saturn [possibly one or more could be a planet that is beyond the orbit of Pluto, but I have strong doubts about that...not that there aren't any planets yet to be known beyond Pluto as, my genuinely clairvoyant friend and spiritual confidante, Clarisse Conner says there are] i.e. Uranus, Neptune and Pluto and thus is also giving proof, to what I have been asserting all along, that the planets beyond Saturn were not only known in times of great antiquity but were certainly consulted, employed and utilized in all astrological considerations and should be presently.
I've been, for some years, been meaning to get a software application {and take the time to learn how to use it} to draw a chart diagram of this configuration the Rabii has given as a clue but in a way that is astronomically possible. ...or in one of the possible solutions as there surely are a number of possible configurations.
I do believe that He is indicating, though, that the Grand Sextile includes all of those that are situated on the one his diagram shows... although even that isn't a certainty... as one doesn't become a Rabbi, I would tend to think, without having some degree of "slyness".
{...sheeesh, my "spell check" seems to be non-op suddenly, so bear with me if I've got typos today, until I figure out how to get it up and running again. Thanks, ptv}
*{or event...as Edgar Cayce said that the Messiah to come is an event and not a person. }
"Is this possibly a Rabbi's message about as to what to keep an eye open for ...but a message that has been 'scrambled" deliberately as like some sensitive information being encoded?"
As I wrote in my book it was the numerous times that I had come across inference by Jewish scholars, Kabbalists and in the writings of Rudhyar that the prerequisite for the "Messiah" is a "Magen David" {i.e. Star of David, Star of Solomon, Grand Sextile} must appear in the natal chart* that what drove me to search through a twenty year window for possible Magen David configurations centering around the beginning of the year 1A.D. {or C.E. for those that prefer}
I bleieve that the Rabbi {and other qualified and knowledgeable Rabbi's} knew what that exact configuration is predicted to be and certainly wouldn't give that information out to the general public.
Also the fact that the glyph for Staurn is in the middle of his diagram with a symetrically aligned square surrounding it is implying, in my humble estimation, to be indicating that Saturn is also involved in this prerequisite configuration in a square aspect to three unknows and if you think about it you're likely to reach the same conclusion that I did that those unknowns can only be the three planets that are immediately beyond Saturn [possibly one or more could be a planet that is beyond the orbit of Pluto, but I have strong doubts about that...not that there aren't any planets yet to be known beyond Pluto as, my genuinely clairvoyant friend and spiritual confidante, Clarisse Conner says there are] i.e. Uranus, Neptune and Pluto and thus is also giving proof, to what I have been asserting all along, that the planets beyond Saturn were not only known in times of great antiquity but were certainly consulted, employed and utilized in all astrological considerations and should be presently.
I've been, for some years, been meaning to get a software application {and take the time to learn how to use it} to draw a chart diagram of this configuration the Rabii has given as a clue but in a way that is astronomically possible. ...or in one of the possible solutions as there surely are a number of possible configurations.
I do believe that He is indicating, though, that the Grand Sextile includes all of those that are situated on the one his diagram shows... although even that isn't a certainty... as one doesn't become a Rabbi, I would tend to think, without having some degree of "slyness".
{...sheeesh, my "spell check" seems to be non-op suddenly, so bear with me if I've got typos today, until I figure out how to get it up and running again. Thanks, ptv}
*{or event...as Edgar Cayce said that the Messiah to come is an event and not a person. }
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piercethevale
Well-known member
And that has to do with what?
It is not even pertainent to anything that is being dicussed in this thread unless it has some reference to degree symbolism or the person known as Jesus/Yeshu'a of Nazareth.
...like they say... "Haters are going to be haters, no matter what." or you can just substitute "Hater" with "Nay sayer"....
...and in my humble opinion, a most ingnorant and obstinate one, too.
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piercethevale
Well-known member
Hmm...
i just came in here to point out that Yeshua's ic symbol at Cap one is the.... (as Rudhyar put it...) "the fifty-fifth sequence of five symbols."
....And that one alone has me stumped enough... let alone your star speculations to add to the mix...
That is in reference to the manner in which Rudhyar identified the symbols as chaging in orentation to one of the three possible beginnig with the first five symbols being "ACTIONAL", then the next five symbls being that of "EMOTIONAL/CULTURAL" orientation, and the five, following that as beingm oriented as to "INDIVIDUAL/MENTAL" in the same order every five symbols, sequentially, around the Zodiac. Capricorn 01* is the 55th, out of a total of 72 sets, in sequence.
But, thank for pointing out and bringing to my attention something I had not noticed.
As I think you might be aware ...as I believe I have brought it up before in a thread or two and I might have even mentioned it in my book, that while 33 is the esoteric [I believe it's from Gnostic Christianity as the source of the esoteric meaning of the numbers "666" and "888" are source referenced by Dane Rudhyar to the Gnostic's] number for Jesus/Yeshu'a the man [as 888 is the esoteric, Gnostic, number for the Christ spirit] the number 55 is mentioned by Rudhyar as being the esoteric number for Mary/Mirriam, the Virgin Mother of Jesus/Yeshu'a. It may just be a coincidence...and then, maybe not? But instinct tells me "not"...as it has repeatedly been demonstrated to me that not even "a single blade of grass" just coincidently grows where it does.
...hmmm?
You may want to read... or re-read and refresh your mind, my thread on understanding how to apply the Sabian Symbolism found for any Astrological Part in context to that Part at another forum that I am a member of. I recently revised the technique a tad, and haven't gotten around to updating my thread on the same subject, that is, here at astrologweekly yet. As to the revision, it's just to the nomenclature that I offer, as an alternative, to that which Rudhyar developed for the, three sets of, five symbol sequences. You'll find that the ones I came up with are, albeit just slightly, different in that I identify and list them as:
Level #1 Actional
Level #2 Instinctual-Emotional
Level #3 Conscious-Rational
...and give explanation as to why...but I also mention it is only a suggestion and am open to thoughts and or criticism pertaining to that.
By the way the membership at ACTastrology.com is by invitation, or approved application, only as it is a forum for presentation of the different techiniques utilizled by the many different, and recognized, schools of Astrology. It was founded and established by renowned astrolger, and astrolgical computer software pioneer, Michael Erlewine,. The astrolgers that He extended the invitation to and accepted are most of the worlds authorities and recognized experts of those various schools. I applied and was accepted for only the reason that I manged to get one book published on the least understood and least populous school of Astrology, Sabian Symbol Astrology. World recognized living auhority on the Sabian Symbols, Lynda Hill, was invited but she turned down the offer of moderator of the sub forum titled "Oracles of All Kinds" and while she is still listed on the roles of membership she has never participated. It is a most serious and dedicated forum solely for the presentation of ones techniques and not a forum for protestation or frivolties, such as one finds here at astrologyweekly at times, all the time at the forum at astrodienst and never find at "Skyscript" as one is soon shown the door if they present anything other than the astrology used by, their 'Gilded Lily", i.e. the seventeenth century astrolger of England by the name of William Lily.
All members are most respectful of one anothers beliefs and leaves any such protestations [or even denigrations] to that of the personal opinated minds of those that read the posts. That's not to say that something posted isn't questioned by one member to that of another at times. but when it does happen it is done most courteously and in in the most pleasant of manner.
I, myself, have 366 post at that forum, and last time I checked, that is far more than any other astrolger accept for one or two that have around half as many...maybe a few more than half... but I've only been questioned once in all those posts...and that was by a member that wanted to know what I believe are the justifications for using the trans-Saturian planets for Astrological Parts...and you and I both know that I certainly wasn't the first to do so and that they certainly are valid as we both have demonstrated and noted ...geeze...how many times do you think we've done that by now? Well whatever the number....however many ... It's a lot!
...and here's that link, 'On the Method of Applying Sabian Symbols to Astrological Parts' http://actastrology.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=311
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piercethevale
Well-known member
I almost forgot. Mercury can never be more than 28* from the Sun and Venus never more than 46* so ...as I thought about it after I posted the above, and recalled the only conclusions I could draw to, many years ago, that it may be that The Sun isn't involved in the "Magen David" matrix or that it is Merucry and Venus that are in the Grand Cross matrix that Saturn is a part of, but what ever the final solution is, I believe it will involve the trans-Saturnian planets and that it will make astronomical sense as to the placement of the ten different astro-bodies.
JUPITERASC
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You are too kindAnd that has to do with what?
It is not even pertainent to anything that is being dicussed in this thread unless it has some reference to degree symbolism or the person known as Jesus/Yeshu'a of Nazareth.
...like they say... "Haters are going to be haters, no matter what." or you can just substitute "Hater" with "Nay sayer"....
...and in my humble opinion, a most ingnorant and obstinate one, too.
piercethevale
Well-known member
Is there a "Cross-eyed smilie available?
...or possibly a "Cockeyed smilie"?
...or possibly a "Cockeyed smilie"?
Phoenix Venus
Well-known member
I read your post in the actastrology thread, ptv...
I like the titles you gave.... But you didnt really mention your reasoning for discarding the "individual"/"cultural" dynamic so im wondering what your train of thought is regarding that....?
My pof is also in the second level and i agree that its more about applying a certain frame of mind rather than an action....
Ps... A grand cross between saturn and the other outers.....? Is that even possible if not an extremely mega rare occurance...?
I like the titles you gave.... But you didnt really mention your reasoning for discarding the "individual"/"cultural" dynamic so im wondering what your train of thought is regarding that....?
My pof is also in the second level and i agree that its more about applying a certain frame of mind rather than an action....
Ps... A grand cross between saturn and the other outers.....? Is that even possible if not an extremely mega rare occurance...?
Phoenix Venus
Well-known member
Can members send out invites there at actastrology? Id be interested in signing up and posting about some of the parts weve figured out.
piercethevale
Well-known member
That's because no matter how "you slice it" it's utimately only personal as to the individual that is the bearer of the chart, ao the concept of "cultural" just doesn't seem applicable from the way I see it... maybe it did to Rudhyar, but He had been exposed to many different cultures , or certainly more than I have, and maybe he saw some sort of cutural differences in emotional responses. But to me all, emotional responses are instinctual.
As to the other title. i.e. ''INDIVIDUAL/MENTAL", well...again, it's only "Individual" in the sense that it's personal to the bearer of the chart, so it goes without saying that it's "Individual".
But the term, "Concious", that is both individual and mental.. ...and as for "Mental"? ...Well, that word has taken on some different additional meaning{s} since Rudhyars day. ...and as I said, the term "Conscious" is that too... why not just make it "Rational" as I believe that is what Rudhyar was implying by his use of the term "Mental".
So, what I believe that I have produced is two terms that are different, yet mean what He was implying, or stating, yet are much more in tenor of the contrast to one another.
Emotional -{as to}- Rational
...and...
Instinctual -{as to}- Conscious
....hmmm? ...well now that I'm looking at it again and seeing it another way, maybe "Conscious" isn't the best choice for the term...
But I am partial to the other three in the arrangement,....just got to think of a more appropriate word than 'Conscious'...
As for you other question, well, I already said that either the Sun or Venus or Mercury would have to be in the Grand Cross confirguration with Saturn so tha eliminates at least one of those tree trans-Saturnian planets...but even if it didn't I could reply to your question, Quote:
" A grand cross between saturn and the other outers.....? Is that even possible if not an extremely mega rare occurance...?"
...with... "Well aren't Messiahs not also extremely rare in occuring?"
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piercethevale
Well-known member
I'm going to have to break for the day here...it's waaaaay past the time I wanted to be in bed...I going to go have a conversation with "Mr Pillow" , now....
I'll get back to anything else you got posted, as for questions, later.
I'll get back to anything else you got posted, as for questions, later.
piercethevale
Well-known member
dang you...now I'm going to lie awake for gawd nose how long tossing the words "Conscious" and "Individual", back and forth ,.... and back and forth and back and forth... and backenforrrrrrrrrrthhhZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....Zzzzzzzz.....Zzzzzzzzzzz
Phoenix Venus
Well-known member
Well the myers brigg test contrasts the labels "intuitive" and "sensing" whereas one relies on instinctual responses and the other relies on reacting to what is tangible amongst our surroundings
... Then again "sensing" isnt necessarily the best term.... Maybe logical or perceptual.....
... Then again "sensing" isnt necessarily the best term.... Maybe logical or perceptual.....
Phoenix Venus
Well-known member
Lol i got a new phone... AGAIN.... i accidentally washed my other one.... Dropped the first in the ocean dropped the second in a washing
Machine.... Wtf!
Pm me your number? I dont have the number on my new phone
piercethevale
Well-known member
YES!.....I LIKE THAT!
{I'm beginning to see my replies to you as like Robert De Niro Kept saying to Billy Crystal in that movie "Analyze This"... or whatever the name of that movie was. "You...you're good, Yes you are...OH YES you are...."}
piercethevale
Well-known member
Now, I can relax... time for me to talk to Mr. Pillow....
Nitey nite....
Nitey nite....
piercethevale
Well-known member
s the neighbors were making such a racket that it woke me up...I thought that I'd check in again...anc-wuzup...
I may have posted an invite to the thread listing the Parts here at this forum...can't quite recall. I did take a few minutes to look in a few threads I have there that I thought that I may have, but didn't see any. It doesn't mean that I didn't as it may be in one of a few other threads I have there.... I'll check some more over the next few days.
I have number of things that I've been meaning to post there for sometime, but as you probably have noticed, I can't seem to catch up with all that's going on here.
That's kind of "The Big Kids' Playground", if you know what I mean...and I wasn't invited, I applied. As the only reply I ever got was from Abd-Allah Meyers, whom is quite well known to be among the most respected voices on the subject presently and it was He that questioned the justification for my use of trans-Saturnian planets in Astrological parts. To go out on that "Limb" and make as many posts in number as to that of which we've found other titles for parts ...might be a bit overboard,. ..even though we are confident ourselves, they haven't been tested over a great enough length of time, imho. Those folks at ACTastrology are for the most part working with differnent schools of Astrology that many are considered to be from times of great antiquity... if you follow my drift?
While I just had to got to that forum to get the spelling of his name correct, I took a bit of time to refesh my memory with some of the posts I have there and found a few articles I had written and subsequently forgetten since.
I have gotten a few facts confused over the years, as it seems, and also had forgotten about a couple of theories I had gestating at the time those posts, were made.
I'm going to have to spend some time reviewing all I written it seems and return to that "centered astrological orientation" that I have seemed to waver a bit from over time. Too much time spent writing on current transits and not enough time spent on introspection of the workings of astrology.
I did review some of my posts on astrological parts that I did breach the subject of alternative titles being indicated and if you would like to write anything to post there, I'd be glad to do it and give you accreditation for the work, if it is something I contributed to as for any findings I would appreciate the mention is the only thing I would ask of you and that ges for the contributions of anyone else that may have contributed to the work. Afterall we all have to "give credit where credit is due" but as You have pretty much been at the forefront of the breakthroughs of the majority of those dicoveries you won't be saddled with the extra burden of writing too many additional names much. I do suggest going with those Parts that look to have a very good chance of certainty. though. Even we might still find some reason to change a title we already think is the definitive. Best to do this as a "findings and tenative proposal" article for each, is my suggestion... it can be 'a strong proposal', if you savy what I mean? But still a postulatate, not as an axiom, if I remember my terminology right?
I suppose you could try to aply for membership, but I couldn't begin to estimate what odds you might have for acceptance... and I mean that most sincerely as it could be anywhere from 0.1% to 99.9% as I honestly haven't a clue. But I do think that by submitting some articles on the Parts through me ...and I'll make sure that your "billing" is prominent and can't go unnoticed... that you will certainly be "getting your foot in the door", so to speak, and after awhile ... petitioning for inclusion in the membership might be a sure thing?
As I said over the phone earlier, starting this coming year I want to devote my time to the book we've been planning on the Parts and I have a good feeling that if we can get it formatted just right and keep it "user friendly" for the less experienced astrologer to consult but at the same time solid in technical explanation and as thorough as possible for the seasoned astrologers..aespecially the "nay-sayers" that scan for the little flaws just for the opportunity to say "Nay, no way", that it should do pretty well and, if so, you'll have no reason to hesitate applying for membership to any such astrologers roster in my opinion.
You got the "chops", gotta give you the props on that... you'll stand with the best of them if you stay at this study and work, I've no doubt.
...and you may even rise higher... I wouldn't bet against it, I'll say that much.
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Phoenix Venus
Well-known member
K.... Ill think about what threads i might want to post and in the mean time attempt applying..... Ill let you know when i get some posts written up... I might start with the reverse to noble & illustrious acquaintances as im fairly confident in our conclusions regarding that one.
Of course the book takes top priority. I would love to get some of the reverse hermetic lots straightened out more thoroughly but i release thats a tall order and an area not to tread lightly on....
piercethevale
Well-known member
I'm not too sure about including hypothetical Parts in the book, but if we did a chapter titled as such, it might work out.
You really should get a copy of Zoeller's book on Astrolgical Parts, a bit for guidence but more, for the reference...imho
Good luck with the application. Michael Erlewine is still doing the approving, I would surmse, and He can take a bit of awhile getting around to that, i've noticed... so be patient, and good luck, I hope you do get approved. ... it would be cool
Phoenix Venus
Well-known member
I'm not too sure about including hypothetical Parts in the book, but if we did a chapter titled as such, it might work out.
You really should get a copy of Zoeller's book on Astrolgical Parts, a bit for guidence but more, for the reference...imho
Good luck with the application. Michael Erlewine is still doing the approving, I would surmse, and He can take a bit of awhile getting around to that, i've noticed... so be patient, and good luck, I hope you do get approved. ... it would be cool
I think i will think of a few threads first, to possibly get you to post, if you approve and are willing to do so, as you are right, having some material to showcase would strengthen my chances of being approved....
On another note, your posts regarding the categorization of sabians led me to thinkin....
The parts seem able to be categorized as well...
There are those that are actionary... Requiring an action or mode of expression from us.. The manifestation of our energy poured out...Such as the part of fortune, the part of spiritual service, the part of necessity, part of hidden identity & oration, part of nemesis, etc.
Then there are those that are reactionary... Innate talents and expressions that we are bestowed with, flowing to us from the universe via karmic influence... such as the part of soul, part of intuitive awareness of higher self, part of faith, etc. The karmic outer influences would fit into this category too such as the parts of destiny, catastrophe, and increase & benefits...
Then, there are those parts that seem to be the product of the other two categories... These are effectual.. How our actions, effected by our karmic influences, flow into society... Such as the part of trans of others minds, part of reverse noble acquaintances, part of psyche, part of tragedy... The recent part that we have been discussing, the higher octave of self sacrifice, seems to fit into this category as well,as it might deal with what we expect of society, and appeal towards...
There are some that seem to bridge the gap between the categories, such as the part of hidden identity & oration, which seems to represent an innate sense of being that can be activated towards influence of society.
