Parts of pregnancy and childbirth?

[leomoon]

Parts of pregnancy and childbirth?

Part of pregnancy: ASC (17' 33" cancer) + 8' 50" Scorpio - Venus (7' 3" Aries). Mine is 19' 20" Aquarius.

So to clarify: the Part of Pregnancy is?


Take the ASC. add Venues? What is the 3rd portion?

Wouldn't it be the Moon? Not too clear on it.

 

[CapAquaPis]

I'm going to ignore the political part as I see that as a rant and irrelevant to the o.p.

I can't help but think of Polis and Cor Caroli and this meme I made years ago. The mid-point for the two lands almost directly on the south scale.

Thanks for your reply, but yeah, political AND moral...in 2021, we have so much talk about social justice, political correctness and gender relations, it's going to be an old tired meme soon...it's important for male partners to understand their female partners' feelings whenever they are pregnant.

Cor Caroli or Alpha Canes Ventacorium is one of 2 stars in the constellation (Canes Venatici), one of the smallest out of 88 IAU-recognized star groupings. Located between the constellation Ursa Major (Big Dipper) and Bootes, it is on 12h 56m in astronomy, but is it exactly on the degrees of Libra in astrology?

 

[CapAquaPis]

Parts of pregnancy and childbirth?

So to clarify: the Part of Pregnancy is?

Take the ASC. add Venues? What is the 3rd portion?

Wouldn't it be the Moon? Not too clear on it.

The Moon is an alternative of determining the part of pregnancy and a new formula can be used.

Typing in my ASC adding 8' 50" Scorpio and minus the Moon in this version, it came out at 6' 6" Aries which is conjunct my natal Venus, Eris, Ceres and Pallas Athena, all conjunct midheaven at 3' 10" Aries.

In 2 different natal chart versions: the MC or midheaven is in both the 9th or 10th houses, which the MC is usually located, but not in every person's charts.

 

[CapAquaPis]

Leomoon gave me an usual formula to determine the part of pregnancy (I did 3 of them, there are plenty of parts of death and friends, according to the Libra-centre Arabic Parts parts calculator I used), some parts are common things in life to have more than one formula, note there are AM/1st-6th degree sun and PM/7th-12th birth time formulas on certain parts in natal charts in astrology.

ASC (17' 33" Cancer)+Venus (7' 3" Aries)-Moon (20' 17" Aquarius)= 4' 19" Virgo, conjunct my natal Jupiter in 6' and Mars in 9' Virgo, the presence of Saturn in 24-25', Lilith in 25-26' Virgo and true node in 29' Leo all in my 3rd.

 

[CapAquaPis]

Astrological debate on the significance of the "birth of a new man, new king or new messiah" of the planetary alignment of Sep 23, 2017 on the solar month cusp of Virgo and Libra - the middle of the astrological zodiac year and in the northern: the autumn or fall (or the southern, the vernal or spring) equinox, and in astronomy, a heavy Leo stellium when the sun transits Virgo during dawn...it's said to have an interpretation based on Christian biblical revelation, the King (Leo), the Mother (Virgo)...and the new age (Libra) visible after dusk.

https://earthsky.org/human-world/biblical-signs-in-the-sky-september-23-2017

 

[CapAquaPis]

The 7th house is of conception, the descendant which is opposite to our natal rising or ascendant, anyone who doesn't have a planet in the 7th house which is me is expected to be barren, infertile or childless depending on their charts.

 

[leomoon]

The 7th house is of conception, the descendant which is opposite to our natal rising or ascendant, anyone who doesn't have a planet in the 7th house which is me is expected to be barren, infertile or childless depending on their charts.

Tad Mann's Philosophy, puts the gestation / conception into the 9th house (Ruler of the 9th) and ruler of all houses therein, important. Counterclockwise to the ASC (moment of birth) The houses along the way, also see the world in our charts from our mother's point of view because she is carrying us.


The house preceding the 9th (the 8th) is the inheritance house, what we inherit psychologically -from our mother's input or perspective. It is suggestive of our mother's behaviors & problems (if any) prior to the conception For example, if you have Uranus in the 8th (as my husband does), his mother lost a baby just before conceiving him the following year. Uranus in this case, is the loss.





https://ncgrsacramento.org/2018/03/a-t-mann-vision-conception-gestation-birth/


You can read more about it here from the author:


https://www.astro.com/astrology/aa_article180201_e.htm


See the LifeTime chart here:
https://www.holestoheavens.com/exploring-life-time-astrology-with-at-mann/

 

[CapAquaPis]

The 8th house-sex, 9th house-conception and it goes counter-clockwise to the 5th house-birth of a baby/child. However, any indications of a person is fertile or ever going to have biological or by marriage offspring is found in the DSC or the 6th-7th houses. I have a natal sun-moon-SN conjunction in 8th-Aquarius.

 

[leomoon]

From the 9th of conception, counter-clockwise would be 10,11 and then 12th .....(these 3 are called the gestation houses), then next is birth i.e. ASC -


The MC (10th), if any planets are there, should tell us something about who the mother told first - i.e. if Sun (father), if Venus (a woman), etc. For those with no planets here, don't fret, she STILL likely told someone, (who is the ruler of that house and where is that planet for example)

 

[leomoon]

for example: THE PUBLIC HOUSE - THE MC (10th house cusp in our charts)




In my natal, the MC is Aries (ruled by Mars) found with the Sun in 6th house
likely (my father was told first) ...
Mars is male - and its combust the Sun -



My husband's natal MC is Leo (she told his father first about the pregnancy)
Sun in 11th, cj. Venus (she shared the info with her relatives to whom she was close, mostly women.)



My 1st daughter (I told her father 1st - 10th house cusp ruled by Scorpio, (i.e. Mars) found in the 7th in Leo (ruled by the SUN)


My 2nd daughter (Her MC is 15 deg.Leo ) - Her father (Sun) learned first
My 3rd daughter ( AQ MC i.e. Saturn found in 5th in Leo (she died young)





1st grandson: His MC Taurus (Venus rules) found in 8th hs. ...
background: His father was in a submarine on Naval duty. She told a female first likely a close friend.


2nd grandchild: Her MC Scorpio with Mars found in Leo in 7th house (her husband - again, in the Navy, but he was in touch or came home then I can't recall.

 

[CapAquaPis]

On my natal chart, the 9th starts at 3' Pisces, the presence of Mercury in 13' Pisces conjunct Pallas in 29' Pisces (Mercury has a feminine nature, Pallas is considered feminine); then in the 10th is Eros in 2' conjunct MC, Venus in 7', Ceres in 14' and Eris in 21' (all feminine planets); Chiron (somewhat feminine) on the 11th in 11' Taurus; and finally the 12th where Juno (feminine) in 11' conjunct POF in 14' Cancer, relatively close to my ascendant at 17' Cancer.

 

[CapAquaPis]

I'm confused...does the 9th-12th houses describes the experience of a person before they were born...or a person's own experiences with pregnancy if it's applicable? I'm using the Placidus house system, the Koch rearranges natal houses differently, like 17' Pisces is the cusp 8th-9th based on that system.

If it's about people around me before my birth reacted to my own mother was then pregnant with me, I looked over the planetary placements in my natal 9th-12th houses, there's even one conjunct my ASC/rising in 17' 33" Cancer.

MC in 1' Pisces conjunct South Node in 29' Aquarius, the Sun in 26' Aquarius (represents the father) and the Moon in 20' Aquarius (represents the mother).

* 13' Pisces - Mercury (it's fall, the worst degree for the smallest planet).
* 29' Pisces - Pallas (represents LGBT identities) cusp 0' Aries in the 9th.
* 2' Aries - Eros (the asteroid represents love, romance and platonic friends).
* 7' Aries - Venus (represents the mother, female relatives and friends, and in MC or 10th house opposite the IC or 4th house that's more about mothers).
* 14' Aries - Eris (Largest dwarf planet, among a highly feminine stellium).
* 21' Aries - Ceres (represents mothers, also on the degree of pregnancy).
* 9' Taurus - Chiron (represents medical issues, but also of healing wounds).
* 12' Taurus - Vesta (another asteroid, also feminine, but represents virginity).
* 11' Cancer - Part of Fortune (Benefic, the dates July 3-4 in solar calendar).
*16' Cancer - Juno (one of 4 asteroids, feminine, maternal) conjunct ASC.

I have to say my Mom had a huge close circle of female family and friends in her pregnancy, including my then 8-year old half-sister (her stepdaughter) by the name Michele who named me Michael, and Mercury as well Chiron can mean a male she knew of (my father, of course and maybe her brother), it's complicated to read the gestation houses in my case to get the idea of I was a possibly planned child.

 

[CapAquaPis]

for example: THE PUBLIC HOUSE - THE MC (10th house cusp in our charts)




In my natal, the MC is Aries (ruled by Mars) found with the Sun in 6th house
likely (my father was told first) ...
Mars is male - and its combust the Sun -



My husband's natal MC is Leo (she told his father first about the pregnancy)
Sun in 11th, cj. Venus (she shared the info with her relatives to whom she was close, mostly women.)



My 1st daughter (I told her father 1st - 10th house cusp ruled by Scorpio, (i.e. Mars) found in the 7th in Leo (ruled by the SUN)


My 2nd daughter (Her MC is 15 deg.Leo ) - Her father (Sun) learned first
My 3rd daughter ( AQ MC i.e. Saturn found in 5th in Leo (she died young)





1st grandson: His MC Taurus (Venus rules) found in 8th hs. ...
background: His father was in a submarine on Naval duty. She told a female first likely a close friend.


2nd grandchild: Her MC Scorpio with Mars found in Leo in 7th house (her husband - again, in the Navy, but he was in touch or came home then I can't recall.

I'm sorry to hear the 3rd grandchild passed away in her youth (she died in her infancy?). I wonder infertility issues, miscarriages and stillbirths are indicated on natal charts, and some expecting couples/people will have to bear what's to happen, esp something negative is there. Many professional and advanced astrologers like KRSOne said he finds it unethical to discuss the future life of an infant, but he said its parents should interpret its chart themselves in private.

It just came to me: In my 9th, Mercury may predicted a neurodivergent and LGBT identity, similarly with Pallas, in the house of conception, my autism and genderfluidity is right there. Note Loving Eros is conjunct my MC, it could be my parents made public they planned a family, esp in 1979-80 when the economy (stagflation in the 1970s) was in its worst shape since the Great Depression (and almost similar to 2020-21 but by the COVID pandemic recession). And in the 11th, it appears my parents fought and in conflict, they divorced later when I was age 7 and their friends had intervened to resolve a dispute while they were expecting...and in the 12th, I knew for sure it's definitely related to my Mom's side grandma and esp. great-grandma, her birthday was on...July 3rd.

And pallas (9th) and Eros (10th) in MC, it turns out not just me is fascinated with pregnancy, my half-sister and also my brother who is a father of his 21 year old son...told me they have a fondness like I do. It has to be "genetic", however, my father isn't known to have that trait, note he's French and said pregnancy is looked up more highly or beautified in France, while it has became less of a taboo in the late 20th century (since 1960s or 1970s?) in the USA.

 

[leomoon]

.does the 9th-12th houses describes the experience of a person before they were born...or a person's own experiences with pregnancy if it's applicable? I'm using the Placidus house system, the Koch rearranges natal houses differently, like 17' Pisces is the cusp 8th-9th based on that system.

My understanding is that any unequal house system should work to describe both your parents, and especially so, your mother's activities, her emotions prior to your birth.


the 9th house cusp ruler tells you your mother's frame of mind and emotional life at conception or 9 months prior to your birth.



IF 9th ruler is Pisces, then like me (mine is also Pisces) she may be a person who if not religious, is spiritual minded, not a gross person,but the opposite when it comes to sex, love and marriage. The 9th (as you know) is ruled by Jupiter naturally, so Pisces and Jupiter have an affinity one with the other. This then, is or should be a good start in life for you as her conceived child as your spirits meld here. Now its also possible, if a mother is on drugs we know that Pisces can be associated with drugs, but I've not studied Tad Mann's work to this extent other then what I passed on here.


So to answer your question, its your mother we are looking at through the conceived fetus, i.e. you when you came to her as a soul.


That doesn't mean however, that you do not share similar traits deep within, of a Piscean/Jupiter theme exalted in your 9th house of your conception.

\

 

[leomoon]

In my 9th, Mercury may predicted a neurodivergent and LGBT identity, similarly with Pallas, in the house of conception, my autism and genderfluidity is right there. Note Loving Eros is conjunct my MC, it could be my parents made public they planned a family, esp in 1979-80 when the economy (stagflation in the 1970s) was in its worst shape since the Great Depression (and almost similar to 2020-21 but by the COVID pandemic recession). And in the 11th, it appears my parents fought and in conflict, they divorced later when I was age 7 and their friends had intervened to resolve a dispute while they were expecting...and in the 12th, I knew for sure it's definitely related to my Mom's side grandma and esp. great-grandma, her birthday was on...July 3rd.

Having Mercury in your 9th, (is it also in Pisces?) may indeed be indicating a gender fluidity nature., because of the very nature of Mercury itself. And of course, a ruler in a mutable sign.



As for the 11th house, the house of hopes/dreams and friendships, - do you have Mars here or a reason to believe thy argued and fought here enough so to bring the couple to divorce? ....


Since they didn't divorce until years later they tried then to make it work, (do you have a relationship in aspect from Sun (father ) to Moon (mother?)



When we see a square or opposition that suggests the parents weren't getting along prior to the birth of their child. The 12th house is just before the birth, so the last weeks.



To find the divorce (when you were 7 , ) I'd suggest looking at the 4th house as the IC is approx. 4-5 yrs old and into the 4th approx. 7 yrs of age.



There is a wheel for the Tad Mann theory that goes along with the theory of a life span.



Scroll down here on this link and you'll see the approximate ages (putting 7 yrs old into the 5th house)


https://www.holestoheavens.com/exploring-life-time-astrology-with-at-mann/

 

[leomoon]

Here is something that came out of his original book -



What I did was take a page protector (you can buy them at an office supply store), with or without holes for bookbinders like they use in school.


Put the page protector drawing (after copying or drawing this TEMPLATE with black ink or a black marker preferably ) putting the drawing over a natal chart (about an 8 X 10 page) and draw the disc to match the houses best you can about the same size.


THEN this (because it becomes see-through) you can put over anyone's charts as the chart becomes the same size .

like this: Heavyweight page protecter: 8 X 11

https://www.amazon.com/Count-Diamond-Heavyweight-Protectors-Strong/dp/B085PP4D5S/ref=sxin_9_ac_d_mf_rm?ac_md=1-1-cGFnZSBwcm90ZWN0b3JzIGhlYXZ5IGR1dHk%3D-ac_d_rm&cv_ct_cx=page+protectors&dchild=1&keywords=page+protectors&pd_rd_i=B085PP4D5S&pd_rd_r=50767246-791d-4a06-ae5c-3485c2352462&pd_rd_w=xgXfR&pd_rd_wg=xMZzQ&pf_rd_p=d00be302-86a9-4ea9-9240-f5ec923e66bc&pf_rd_r=KGY5SEW5TQAESCCNQS01&psc=1&qid=1623531625&sr=1-2-849f3c3a-785c-4812-aab6-3d7cb06022f2


You don't need a whole box, just one of them -


To draw THIS on top of it the size of a natal chart you normally keep printed out on a likewise size page 8X10







PLACE THE ABOVE AGES TEMPLATE OVER A NATAL CHART WITH HOUSES TO GET A CELLOPHANE VERSION YOU CAN KEEP TO LAYOVER THE CHARTS: You can then experiment with it and charts of people you know well, (the ages they marry) the age a trauma occurred - all life events that are important, should show via a planetary TRIGGER with transits and/or progressions using the age marker laid-over the chart.

 

[leomoon]

You'll note that between ages 42-80 comprises the 8th house into the 9th house.
So gestation and the fetal state coincides as a beginning, to an end of life (house -) IF a person died younger, then the planet should trigger the event via transits or progressions? over that approximate age mark.



When my daughter died, she was 31 yrs old and that particular age (between 30-40) on the layover had her natal Uranus which fell in her 7th house.



Uranus (as a kind of malefic) we know either as estrangements, separations or accidents symbolically. Her Uranus was also square her Sun's ruler Saturn.


The "idea" behind the theory is that we (as souls) come into the earth, via the mother and will by necessity inherit some of her spiritual traits or lacks.....So we are of course our own soul but we take on (by necessity), that too of the parents we are born to, mostly the mother's planets and life events but not exact events, only symbolically related to the particular planet.


For example, when I look at her chart and her 7th house, I have to wonder WHAT was I doing, thinking or being at the time of her conception to have her leave when her age of 31 and her Uranus was triggered? We know the 7th is close personal relationships, spouses usually marriage - or close as. When I told my husband I was pregnant for the 3rd time with this child, he wasn't as thrilled as I had hoped. She was a surprise baby and we were in the process of moving. I recall my heart dropped and I was very hurt because he wasn't excited or happy. NOW, not everyone who that happens to will lose their child, but as it turned out, the SOUL who came to us via her body, took that kind of expression on as a part of her own soul's learning., and separated from us and from life at age 31.



Its not an easy thing to explain. Its quite esoteric and every one is different. He came around the next day and even bought me a beautiful keepsake baby book for our new baby. Sadly, it was too late, her soul was attached to us then and there, with the mark/stain? of a 1st house born Chiron square her Sun, opposite her Moon , semi-square her Venus and opposite her NN (cj. the SN)


That was the result. Again, its dramatic, and most probably won't reflect in the same way for another, because there are always children born who are not wanted, and even end up very healthy & successful in life. It depends on the particular soul's need at the time she or he comes to the parent. And that of the parents. (lessons their souls may take on)



As it turned out she was the favorite of all 3 of his children, the precious baby he adored.




But planets and signs have meaning is what I am trying to convey.

 

[leomoon]

I just listened to this Podcast (from 2016-17) by Tad Mann explaining his Lifetime chart which I've posted above. He explains from conception to and through all the evolutionary stages in a natal chart:


(I'd start at 16 minutes - because its very boring until then with mostly someone else, or the host - TAD MANN starts speaking at 16 minutes:


See fetal state pencil drawing (da Vinci) which is the Podcast to click -



https://www.holestoheavens.com/exploring-life-time-astrology-with-at-mann/

 

[CapAquaPis]

Having Mercury in your 9th, (is it also in Pisces?) may indeed be indicating a gender fluidity nature., because of the very nature of Mercury itself. And of course, a ruler in a mutable sign.

(MD: It is in my 9th house in Pisces, I mentioned that in my earlier posts, and my mother was a smoker, she developed COPD in her 40s and died at age 69, and Mercury can depict her worked in law enforcement as a phone dispatcher).

As for the 11th house, the house of hopes/dreams and friendships, - do you have Mars here or a reason to believe thy argued and fought here enough so to bring the couple to divorce? ....

(MD: Mars is in the 3rd house opposite the 9th conjunct Jupiter, Saturn and Lilith).

Since they didn't divorce until years later they tried then to make it work, (do you have a relationship in aspect from Sun (father ) to Moon (mother?)

(MD: Natal sun and moon conjunction in 8th house in Aquarius also conjunct SN).

When we see a square or opposition that suggests the parents weren't getting along prior to the birth of their child. The 12th house is just before the birth, so the last weeks.

(MD: I believe this, to become parents while their marriage was about to destabilize, and they will have another baby boy - my brother in 14 months).

To find the divorce (when you were 7 , ) I'd suggest looking at the 4th house as the IC is approx. 4-5 yrs old and into the 4th approx. 7 yrs of age.

(MD: I have a Pluto in the 4th house in Libra, also my Mom had an illness and she went to the hospital twice in the 1990s when I was ages 12 and again 17).

There is a wheel for the Tad Mann theory that goes along with the theory of a life span.

(MD: I lost a parent on Easter Sunday 2021, my mother...my 8th house has a sun and moon in the house of death...I'm in my early 40s in this life phase cycle).

Scroll down here on this link and you'll see the approximate ages (putting 7 yrs old into the 5th house)

(MD: It is said the the 5th represents a person's first pregnancy or experience of becoming a parent. Note there's Uranus in my 5th house in Scorpio and it's my ruling planet as an Aquarius. I never had any biological kids, I'm 41 now and had been in a few not-so-good romantic relationships in my adult life).

https://www.holestoheavens.com/exploring-life-time-astrology-with-at-mann/

And one more to add is Chiron in the 11th on Mom's birthday in the astrological degree of April 29th: 9' Taurus. It is a house of friends and the planetoid is of healing. I sense she turned to her friends and family for support my father is not offering her in a time like her pregnancy and anticipating her first child.

 

[leomoon]

Sorry, I had forgotten you lost your mother this past year.



Perhaps you'll see her in your dream world life. I do, (my mother and loved ones) visit me now and then.