Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part III - Theoretical Considerations

[SunConjunctUranus]

Sir Rhys

How are you there?

 

[JUPITERASC]

Sir Rhys
How are you there?

others are concerned also that Rhys has not posted
since October

Rhys? We've been a little worried.
Talisman, greater malefic, and you disappeared.
Let us know Saturn didn't eat you, ok?

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=938355#post938355
so far we have no clue

 

[petosiris]

You can follow Rhys on his website - http://www.rhyschatham.net/

Or listen to his stuff - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi79QGa3cxc

 

[SunConjunctUranus]

Wow! I barely knoe he is well known musican.

 

[petosiris]

Wow! I barely knoe he is well known musican.

I did not know at the time either, he seems quite humble. Or maybe he wished to keep anonymous, but not anymore thanks to me. EXPOSED

Edit: that guitar piece is really good

 

[JUPITERASC]

*

SEVEN TRADITIONAL AND GENERAL PRINCIPLES FOR MOST ELECTIONS

Seven traditional and general principles for most elections.
1. Let the Moon be operative with operative domicile ruler. The operative places are the angles and succedents.
2. Let the I, IV, VII and X be free of Saturn or Mars.
3. Let the Sun be operative, preferably angular.
4. Let Jupiter, Sun, Venus, Mercury and Moon be angular, the more the better.
5. Let the ruler of every action be favorably placed (operative and free of witnessing malefics):
- Saturn for property and some transfer of authority
- Jupiter for governorship and any evident or important matter
- Mars for governorship and military operations
- Venus for celebrations and affairs
- Mercury for eloquence and trade
If the rulers of the action are unfavorably placed and inoperative,
the matter will be unsuccessful,
even with favorably placed benefics rising and culminating.
6. Let the bright non-wandering stars and benefics be rising and culminating to the exact degree,
and let the Lot of Fortune be favorably placed.
7. Avoid the Moon being void of course, the Sun and Moon unfavorably placed,
or the domicile ruler of the Moon being cadent,
having the dodekatemorion of the Moon fall upon Saturn or Mars.
The New Moon is unfavorable concerning evident matters,
but favorable concerning hidden matters,
the Full Moon with malefics causes quarrels and dissension.

Event #1: a launch party. The date has been chosen, and is nonnegotiable,
but the time is to be determined.
This is really a case where the launch would happen with or without a party,
and the results would probably be the same, but
we want a semi-public "here we are" celebration.
Are there astrological factors that should be considered, like
where the angles are, the moon, etc?
The moon will change signs that day, if that's a consideration.

Moon in conjunction with Venus is favorable for celebrations.
Let Jupiter, Sun, Venus and Moon be favorably placed.
Let Venus be rising or culminating,
and let Jupiter be angular without malefic testimony.
The sign of the Moon also has some effect, generally human (for association)
and semi-fertile (for quantity)
signs like Gemini and Libra would be best.
I would recommend sidereal whole signs for this matter.

Event #2: first meeting of an astrological study group.
Because of space availability at the meeting site, the time is predetermined, but
there are several dates to choose from.
At this time of year, that time of day, all potential start dates have Leo rising
and the sun plus several planets in the sixth house.
Depending on the date, though, moon placement varies,
and midheaven sign varies.
(A couple of the potential charts I've tried, I like how they match with my chart,
but I don't know if that's really a consideration.
This isn't all about me.)

It depends on the purpose of the group,
if it is for specifically for study,
rather than association,
here are the points concerning teachings
I - Teacher
IV - Outcome
VII - Student
X - Authority
According to Dorotheus, let Mercury and the Moon be with human images
(Gemini, Virgo, Libra, the first half of Sagittarius, and Aquarius)
and in conjunction or trine with each other, with the Moon being waxing,
and Mercury being eastern.
I would also recommend checking the aforementioned simple principles.
Definitely avoid the sixth house unless you intend irrational events.

 

[JUPITERASC]

....cont
Electional considerations

Thanks for such a detailed answer! Let's see....
Isn't the sun also operative in the ninth house, and the moon in the third,
since those are their respective houses of joy?
And are you considering house placements by whole sign, or by quadrant house?

That is something I do not exactly understand, but
the third place is inoperative by all accounts in the Hellenistic tradition.
The ninth place was thought operative by some authors
on account of the trine.
Personally, I would avoid these places, but
those cadents are definitely much better than the VI and XII.
I personally consider only whole signs, but I do take factor of the Ascendant, Descendant
and the points in square.
Of course you can do anything you want.

Which is, of course, absolutely possible to achieve all at once! [Not!]
Seriously, none of the possible dates for these elections allow all those ideal placements
to exist at the same time.

Yes, try to have as much as of them possible.

What's the domicile ruler of the moon?
Is that the ruler of the sign the moon is in at the moment?
And what's the dodekatemorion of the moon?

Yes, that is the traditional ruler of the sign.
The twelfth-part is the sign within the sign - http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/dodekatemorion.html

If the moon is neither new nor full, does it matter
whether it's waxing or waning?
I would think waxing would be ideal, especially for a first organizational meeting,
since we want our endeavor to grow, but is that correct?

Yes, waxing is better for almost everything
that does not involve decrease of prices, disbandment
or some kind of destruction.

Is culminating the same thing as setting, or does it mean something else?

By culminating, I personally mean being present in the tenth sign, and
preferably in close square with the Ascendant.

Sixth house can't be avoided.
We only have one available meeting time, and at this time of year, the sun will always
be in the sixth house at that time, along with everything else that's in Capricorn right now.
So, I guess we're inviting irrational events!
(Does that mean unexpected events, or is "irrational" defined some other way?)

When the Sun, the Moon and the Lot of Fortune are in the sixth and twelfth house,
irrational initiations are born - they do not achieve their specified purpose
or end well.
This is especially true if the signs are also quadrupedal, or
there are angular malefics.
Just the Sun is fine I guess.
In the Hellenistic tradition, events were treated in the same way as nativities,
if this was present in nativities, people with serious congenital defects are born.
You can look at any initiative chart and know what it concerns, and
how it would end, even without being told about it.

 

[JUPITERASC]

late astrologer Alan White introduction to Hellenistic astrology,
followed by an audio interview with Alan
about his life and work from 2010.
Alan began studying astrology seriously in the 1980s
and then in the mid-1990s he discovered Project Hindsight
and developed a deep interest in ancient astrology.
He created an introductory lecture on Hellenistic astrology
using a flip chart that he presented
at a number of astrological meetings in the 2000s
and one of these presentations in 2001
led to Demetra George teaching a course on the subject at Kepler College.
Alan died at the age of 69 on August 18, 2011.
I visited him a few months before he died
and asked him to record a version of his intro to Hellenistic astrology lecture
to have it on the historical record.
The first 90 minutes of this episode after the intro
consists of Alan's intro to Hellenistic astrology lecture
while the second half is an interview I did with Alan for my old podcast
called Traditional Astrology Radio
that was recorded and aired on December 7, 2010.
Be sure to check out the description page
for high resolution images of the flip chart
an obituary for Alan
or to download the audio version of this episode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3H2M6dMF5w

 

[JUPITERASC]

*


Hellenistic astrology
is essentially the original tradition of western astrology
and it was practiced in the Mediterranean region
from approximately the 1st century BCE through the 7th century CE. I provide a brief introduction to the subject
and explain why the study of ancient astrology is still relevant
and important today.

The study of ancient astrology can provide us with insights
into how many of the techniques
that astrologers still use today
were originally developed.
It can also help us to recover many important and powerful techniques that were lost
in the transmission of astrology over the past 2,000 years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Rfk-WvIWYQ

 

[JUPITERASC]

BRILL has published
“Hellenistic Astronomy: The Science in Its Contexts”
(ISBN: 978-90-04-24336-1) a 751 pages’ thick book
with BRILL’ s usual hefty price tag of €197.00.

There are well-known names on the list of contributors
even for the astrological community:

Siam Bhayrom, Alan C. Bowen, Lis Brack-Bernsen, Giuseppe Cambiano
Nicola Denzey Lewis, Dennis Duke, James Evans
Klaus Geus, Gerd Graßhoff, Dorian Gieseler Greenbaum, Robert Hannah
Stephan Heilen, Wolfgang Hübner
Hermann Hunger, Helen R. Jacobus, Richard L. Kremer
Stamatina Mastorakou, Clemency Montelle, Mathieu Ossendrijver, Tracey E. Rihll
Francesca Rochberg, Micah Ross, Alfred Schmid,
Nathan Sidoli, Anthony Spalinger
Glen Van BrummelenJames C. VanderKam
Alexandra von Lieven, James Wilberding
and Christian Wildberg – to list them all.


BRILL says about its book:

In “Hellenistic Astronomy: The Science in Its Contexts”
new essays
by renowned scholars address questions
about what the ancient science of the heavens was
in the ancient Near East and Mediterranean worlds
and the numerous contexts in which it was pursued.
Together, these essays will enable readers
not only to understand the technical accomplishments of this ancient science
but also to appreciate their historical significance
by locating the questions, challenges, and issues inspiring them
in their political, medical, philosophical, literary, and religious contexts.

The book is divided into three parts:

Technical Requirements
Observations, Instruments, and Issues
Contexts.

It covers noticeably long time span: from 300 BCE to 750 CE.

The astrology is mentioned often
but even more often: “a prognostic astronomy” is mentioned.
something worthwhile is out there:
if you are interested in the subject



.

 

[JUPITERASC]

*


Vettius Valens is typically introduced in biographies
as being a younger contemporary of Ptolemy (c.100-170 CE)
since analysis of his charts suggests
he was most actively involved with astrology between 152 and 162
with continued involvement up to 188.
His flourishing period therefore
crosses the reigns of the Roman emperors Antonius Pius (138-161)
and Marcus Aurelius (161-180).


Valens' nine-part Anthologies i.e., 'Collections'
is the most comprehensive account of astrological theory and practice
to have survived from antiquity.
Only the eight-part Mathesis of Firmicus Maternus comes close
to its length
although Firmicus makes reference to only one example nativity
whereas Valens takes every opportunity to illustrate his teachings
with horoscopes he has worked on or has knowledge of.


Valens does not identify the names of his subjects
provide horoscope diagrams, or even give dates
for most of the example charts he describes

but research by Otto Neugebauer in the mid-1950s
proved each set of planetary positions to be an authentic horoscope
that can be dated to the first or second century.

In his identification of the oldest chart to "...about sunrise..."
on 15 December 37 CE, Neugebauer failed to realise
but others quickly noted
that this was the horoscope of the Roman Emperor Nero
whose birth was recorded by the historian Suetonius in 121 CE:
"....Nero was born at Antium, on 15 December 37 A.D.
... The Sun was rising..."
Valens uses the chart as a typical example
of how his techniques identify crisis periods
which in this chart occurs within the 31st year
68 CE, when Nero committed suicide.

It is this rich supply of ancient chart-data
that has made Valens' work of great significance to scholars
of classical history, calendar systems, and astronomy
as well as students of ancient astrological techniques.
Its value was underlined by Otto Neugebauer
and Henry Van Hoesen in their 1959 work Greek Horoscopes
which says
in regard to the "...importance of the Anthology of Vettius Valens...":
With its about 130 (partial or complete) horoscopes
it contains twice as many examples of Greek horoscopes
as all papyri combined.

Without Vettius Valens
whose examples range from A.D. 37 to 188
we should have only five examples of "...literary..." horoscopes
before A.D. 380.


Download/View the full article here (2.4 MB)


.

 

[socrates]

What if one of the triplicity rulers of sect light is an angular saturn but out of sect? a negative period?

 

[JUPITERASC]

What if one of the triplicity rulers of sect light

is an angular saturn

but out of sect?

a negative period?

keep in mind dr. farr & advice to:
focus on the TOTALITY OF THE TESTIMONIES


.

 

[Larryp]

Astrologers in Hellenistic and Late Antiquity developed their theoretical and technical beliefs based on Babylonian (and to a lesser extent Egyptian) astrological traditions, combining Stoic, Middle Platonic, and Neopythagorean ideas. In a time of tremendous political and social change, astrology fulfilled a desire to know where one systematically stands concerning the universe. While adopting some astral theories, various thinkers of the time engaged in polemics against astrology. Posidonius, a Stoic philosopher, is said to have embraced astrology and written books on the subject. Other Stoics opposed astrological determinism, including Panaetius and (late) Diogenes of Babylon. Horoscopic astrology was nonsensical for some philosophers, such as Plotinus, for reasons including as that the planets could never bear ill will toward human spirits exalted above the cosmos.

 

[dr. farr]

Later Arabic astrologers (eg abumashar) reinterpreted astrological theory on the basis of Aristotle’s world view-this is the basis upon which astrology reached Europe in the later Middle Ages.

 

[waybread]

Astrologers in Hellenistic and Late Antiquity developed their theoretical and technical beliefs based on Babylonian (and to a lesser extent Egyptian) astrological traditions, combining Stoic, Middle Platonic, and Neopythagorean ideas. In a time of tremendous political and social change, astrology fulfilled a desire to know where one systematically stands concerning the universe. While adopting some astral theories, various thinkers of the time engaged in polemics against astrology. Posidonius, a Stoic philosopher, is said to have embraced astrology and written books on the subject. Other Stoics opposed astrological determinism, including Panaetius and (late) Diogenes of Babylon. Horoscopic astrology was nonsensical for some philosophers, such as Plotinus, for reasons including as that the planets could never bear ill will toward human spirits exalted above the cosmos.

Welcome to the forum!

I hope you will post more insights of this nature.

You are probably familiar with Cicero, On Divination-- supposedly the trigger for Ptolemy to write Tetrabiblos.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Astrologers in Hellenistic and Late Antiquity developed their theoretical and technical beliefs based on Babylonian (and to a lesser extent Egyptian) astrological traditions, combining Stoic, Middle Platonic, and Neopythagorean ideas. In a time of tremendous political and social change, astrology fulfilled a desire to know where one systematically stands concerning the universe. While adopting some astral theories, various thinkers of the time engaged in polemics against astrology. Posidonius, a Stoic philosopher, is said to have embraced astrology and written books on the subject. Other Stoics opposed astrological determinism, including Panaetius and (late) Diogenes of Babylon. Horoscopic astrology was nonsensical for some philosophers, such as Plotinus, for reasons including as that the planets could never bear ill will toward human spirits exalted above the cosmos.

as you are a new member do refer to our strictly traditional board rules
i.e.

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=120411


For discussions on Traditional Astrology only
always excludes modern planets (Nep...*, Ura...* and Pl..*,)
as well as any asteroids.

Members who wish to
explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas
should feel free to start a new thread
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If you are not a traditional astrologer, you are welcome as a guest.
Good guests respect the rules of the house.
In this house, the main rule is that all posts must stick to traditional astrology only.
Please read the rest of this and make sure that everything you post here
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If your post is not traditional, it belongs on one of our other boards, not here.


***Please Read Before Posting On This Board***
This is the Traditional Astrology forum.
Out of all the different boards in this forum, this one is
the home for traditional astrologers.


https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120411

It was created
so that traditional astrologers
can discuss traditional astrology with each other
without having to justify it
to non-traditionalists
or
be interrupted
by people disagreeing with traditional perspectives.


.

 

[pandithshivakrish]

Hellenistic astrology only used the major or Ptolemaic aspects, whose dynamics are based on the signs and their polarity, element, and modality qualities. In modern astrology, on the other hand, a dizzying array of new aspects proliferates at an alarming rate.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Hellenistic astrology only used the major or Ptolemaic aspects, whose dynamics
are based on the signs and their polarity, element, and modality qualities.

 

[socrates]

Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part III - Theoretical Considerations​

Saturn, Jupiter and Sun rejoice by day, Mars, Venus and Moon rejoice by night, and Mercury rejoices by day and by night, for it belongs to the diurnal sect by day, and to the nocturnal sect by night. Diurnal stars rejoice with diurnal images, nocturnal stars rejoice with nocturnal images.

Why is 7th about travel later in life? Which ancient astrologer said so?
And who said 9th is inaction? Is it simply because it is cadent? Certainly yrue about me