'The King of Parts': The Part of Hyleg

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In the 10th house in Aquarius, squared by Saturn in 1st house.
Jupiter is in the 2nd house. Moon trines MC as well (in 10th).
Traditionally, the lord of the Lot is important to describe its manifestation :smile:
The planets set the baseline
the Lots amplify or diminish this baseline.

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Because that degree is the Po Delusion for the USA (Asc. + Neptune - Moon) ... but that is a Part that we have never explored and aren't sure if that tile is appropriate (likely not...considering how many have been accurate to date concerning the trans-Saturnian Parts... although those utilizing Neptune have been a tiny bit of a surprise... but the had the one Asc. + Neptune - Venus completely backward in that it was not Part of False Love but rather a Part of Ideal Love)

...but the 28th of Scorpio is something very special to Phoenix Venus and I folks as the Sabian Symbol is given as (ibid.)

"SCORPIO 28°: THE KING OF THE FAIRIES APPROACHING HIS DOMAIN.
KEYNOTE: The capacity in man to recognize and to pay homage to an integrating Principle at the core of all existence."

It was the Asc. of the chart for the locale and moment I took a photo of a Faerie ten years ago this July.

I had been visited by them twice two months prior in my apt right after I moved into it.
It sits along the edge of a nature preserve along the American River in N. California.

I also got a photo of seven of them the night before in that month of July 2007

Correction, it was the M.C. for that chart... excuse me.
 
As I was recalculating all of the suggested formulae for the four different Parts of Hyleg above using the new gps co-ordinates of Verdugo City for my birth place... as opposed to Glendale [because the newly incorporated City, Verdugo City, is just a mere few blocks west of where the hospital I was born at once stood as opposed to using the gps co-ordinates for Glendale which are somewhere around five mile Southeast of the location of the bygone hospital] I realized something that we missed observing back when we were involved in studying this Astrological Part. That is that the four different Moons used as the "Trigger" in the formula produce four Astrological Parts of one for each element.
That is one in Fire, one in Earth, one in Air, and one in Water.

Right at this moment, as I haven't yet given it a long hard pondering... it seems to me that it'll work that way every time for most every natal chart...except possibly for those rare times when two of the same Moons occur in the same sign.

Such an outcome, to me, gives this proposal of determining all four suggested Hyleg like Parts added credibility to their being, in some way, of equal or near equal importance.

Be aware though, that the traditional formula of using the Full or New Moon that was closest to the time of birth did prove to me to be the most significantly important of the lot as to my own self and what all else in my natal chart seems to be in support of... or one might say that they "deposit into"... the other three are very significant as being at least major depositors to that of the traditional Hyleg. That is to say that by the symbolism found for the degree of the Zodiac each is in the Sabian Symbol ofr each of those degrees is most very significant in relation to that of the Sabian Symbol found for the traditional Hyleg formula Part... and always use the diurnal [Day birth] formula... as like everything else in nature that God created, when you reverse a formula you get something entirely different.

I presently am in a bit of awe at this in that I know of no other technique that gives emphasis to all four of the Zodiacal elements... it's quite curious!

Verdugo City, as it turns out, isn't the more proper GPS point for my natal chart after all... I just thought that I'd set the record straight about that.
 
Mine is in 5 degrees Gemini, second house.



What's it mean?

The problem here is that many of these threads I originated were originally in the degree symbolism sub-forum and then, when this exclusive sub-forum was created for Astrological Parts, they were moved here and thus opened these threads to many other forms of astrological interpretation.

From your post, as you don't state the minutes and seconds of the degree your Part of Hyleg is in, I can't determine if you mean it is IN the 5th degree or in fact it is in the 6th degree.


Only the Sabian Symbol found for the degree the Part of Hyleg in will give one the answer as to which you are truly seeking... i.e. which of the 360 divine precepts given through symbolic illustration via the Sabian Symbols are all the other Astrological Parts in your natal chart contributing towards.

Without that knowledge you are like a sail boat at sea without a rudder.
 
The problem here is that many of these threads I originated were originally in the degree symbolism sub-forum and then, when this exclusive sub-forum was created for Astrological Parts, they were moved here and thus opened these threads to many other forms of astrological interpretation.

From your post, as you don't state the minutes and seconds of the degree your Part of Hyleg is in, I can't determine if you mean it is IN the 5th degree or in fact it is in the 6th degree.


Only the Sabian Symbol found for the degree the Part of Hyleg in will give one the answer as to which you are truly seeking... i.e. which of the 360 divine precepts given through symbolic illustration via the Sabian Symbols are all the other Astrological Parts in your natal chart contributing towards.

Without that knowledge you are like a sail boat at sea without a rudder.


5 degrees, 18 minutes.
 
5 degrees, 18 minutes.

Ahh, thank you for the courteous reply.
That then is a Part of Hyleg in the 6th degree of Gemini and a most dynamic and potent precept it is that is attached to that degree of the Tropical Zodiac.

That precept is presented in a symbolism of the provenance of the culture of the Western world, i.e the Occidental, and summed up quite succinctly by the master symbologist himself, the late Dane Rudhyar, in his familiar "Keynote" synopses and "Keyword" summations [ibid.]

GEMINI 6°: WORKMEN DRILLING FOR OIL.

KEYNOTE:
The avidity for that knowledge which ensures wealth and power.


This symbol superficially considered can be referred to the insatiable drive of modern man for power and wealth, his readiness to accept the risk of failure. But it has a deeper meaning, especially if related to the next symbol. Oil is the end result of the decay of living materials. Drilling for oil may represent the attempt to penetrate to the deep layers of the collective Unconscious and to reawaken the powers of the archaic psyche which once flourished — for instance in the true ceremonial magic of the tribal world, perhaps among the adepts of the fabled Atlantis, or even among the shamans and witch doctors of more recent times. The archaic powers may be 'refined' for modern situations, but the almost inevitable result is the release of noxious waste products, 'pollution'. And there is a pollution of consciousness as well as of the atmosphere man breathes.
The zodiacal sign Gemini has basically the meaning of insatiable curiosity and avidity for knowledge; it is logically a 'human' sign (the Twins). One of the Twins tends to seek power and knowledge from the ancient past, the other to discover a living source of strength and wisdom which is forever being replenished by the celestial downpour of Spiritual Consciousness and love (cf. the next symbol). It is man's nature, alas, to begin with potentially negative emotions and desires.

This is the first stage of the fourteenth five-fold sequence of cyclic phases. It deals with the emotional and, at the present-day level of evolution, socially prized reaction of most human beings to the attainment of new forms of knowledge, i.e.
AMBITION.


"The avidity for that knowledge which ensures wealth and power" ...and here you are seeking to further your knowledge and exhibiting avidity as you did return to this thread to see what else might have been added since you last visited. As to whther of not you seek knowledge for the desire of wealth and power may or may not be the case and it is but only your business as to why you do. Dane wrote what He did as for the reason his words are true in that with enough of the right type of knowledge it surely must ensure one more wealth and power than they had before they obtained it...with some exceptions, I have to imagine, but my imagination can take a turn for the wicked and perverse at times. There is certain kinds of knowledge which I believe can lead to a man, or woman's, ruination if not handled properly, or put to use in a proper and constructive manner. But generally speaking, for the vast majority of humankind, I think Dane hit this one on the nail-head straightaway.

As for Dane's keyword "Ambition" , I see no need to for addendum as the seeking of knowledge is certainly ambition in, and of, itself. Be it for use to obtain wealth and power, all the more so I suppose, but purely for the craving of an inquisitive mind, without question ...imho.

Quite an admirable Sabian Symbol for ones Part of Hyleg, certainly envious to some, if not altogether even many?

Late edit. In retrospect, having read Dane's presentation of the symbolism given more thoroughly, I do see that He did give warning as to such knowledge can lead to a less desirable state of being. That pollution of consciousness he mentioned in reference to the more occult knowledge given to the description quite often of being of a "darker" nature.
 
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So, I was looking over the Part of Hyleg (Radix Vitae) as described earlier in the thread, the one derived from Ascendant + Moon - Syzygy. I noticed that there was a suggestion to check both prenatal moons, and both postnatal moons.

I set out to find these parts in my chart, but I am afraid that my results probably won't be typical and may be harder to generalize than you might think... you see, there are several odd things about the lunations prior to my birth. Basically, I was born on April 1st, 1988... and there are three things about that date that make it atypical.

1. The prenatal new moon prior to my birth was actually connected to a solar eclipse, not just a normal new moon.

2. The prenatal full moon prior to my birth was actually connected to a partial lunar eclipse, so it wasn't a typical full moon either.

3. I was born during a full moon. The postnatal full moon is exact on April 2nd, one day after my birth.

Most charts won't have a lot of stuff like this going on, so anything based on mine should be taken with a grain of salt.

Prenatal full moon (Before Syzygy):
Moon location: Virgo 13* 17'
Radix Vitae using this moon as Syzygy: Cancer 5* 45'
Sabian symbol: PHASE 96 (CANCER 6°): GAME BIRDS FEATHERING THEIR NESTS.

Not seeing much symbolic activity on this degree in my chart with normal Arabic parts. My 2nd house cusp is one degree later. The only combination I found that resulted in a match, was using an Arabic Part I just made up off the top of my head... Ascendant + House 12th - Sun. I just somehow saw that was the right length after messing around with the geometry a bit, and it is totally dependent on Placidus being used.

Prenatal new moon (Syzygy):
Moon location: Pisces 27* 41'
Radix Vitae using this moon as Syzygy: Sagittarius 21* 21'
Sabian symbol: PHASE 262 (SAGITTARIUS 22°): A CHINESE LAUNDRY.

It falls right between my Part of Spirit and Part of Fortune. However, I couldn't find any other Arabic parts on this degree of consequence here, other than another made-up one like Ascendant + Syzygy - South Node. That's likely not impressive, though, since the South Node is mathematically connected to the Moon anyway, and I couldn't hit that degree without using the Syzygy at all.

Postnatal full moon (After Syzygy):
Moon location: Libra 12* 51'
Radix Vitae using this moon as Syzygy: Gemini 6* 11'
Sabian symbol: PHASE 67 (GEMINI 7°): A WELL WITH BUCKET AND ROPE UNDER THE SHADE OF MAJESTIC TREES.

This one is really interesting, because it's in the degree opposite my Part of Fortune. It's also conjunct a version of the Part of Cooperation (House 7th + Moon - Sun).

Postnatal new moon (After Syzygy):
Moon location: Aries 26* 42'
Radix Vitae using this moon as Syzygy: Scorpio 22* 20'
Sabian symbol: PHASE 233 (SCORPIO 23°): A RABBIT METAMORPHOSES INTO A NATURE SPIRIT.

This one is in the degree opposite my Part of Accomplishment (Ascendant + Jupiter - Sun), so there is some symbolic activity here, but not much.

So. if I had to guess at what these parts mean based on my own chart, assuming there is a meaning, here's what I would come up with...

The "Antesyzygy," or the syzygy before the syzygy, would represent that which is hidden and cannot be seen by normal means. 12th house matters, stuff that involves preparation for your life well before it actually begins. The distant past. If you believe in reincarnation, maybe it symbolically represents a life before your most recent past life.

The Syzygy itself, is still somewhat opaque, but involves stuff that is immediately leading up to the present, a lot more centered around what you'll deal with in this lifetime. Possibly your plans for this life laid out more directly, or your most recent past life situation leading up to this point. The kind of stuff you'd see linked to your South Node.

The "Postsyzygy" or the first syzygy after birth, would be centered around your goals and the personality you have now. Sort of like the Ascendant or Part of Fortune in a way, but perhaps zoomed out and seen from a more general, big picture perspective since it's less tied to the specifics of your birth time.

The "Postpostsyzygy" or the second syzygy after birth, would be even more grounded in the present material reality. It would be purely about your long-term goals for this life, and where you want to be by the end of it.

Bear in mind that I'm not an expert on this like others here are, and I'm just a really nerdy person that plays around with astrology software looking for patterns.
 
So, I was looking over the Part of Hyleg (Radix Vitae) as described earlier in the thread, the one derived from Ascendant + Moon - Syzygy. I noticed that there was a suggestion to check both prenatal moons, and both postnatal moons.

I set out to find these parts in my chart, but I am afraid that my results probably won't be typical and may be harder to generalize than you might think... you see, there are several odd things about the lunations prior to my birth. Basically, I was born on April 1st, 1988... and there are three things about that date that make it atypical.

1. The prenatal new moon prior to my birth was actually connected to a solar eclipse, not just a normal new moon.

2. The prenatal full moon prior to my birth was actually connected to a partial lunar eclipse, so it wasn't a typical full moon either.

3. I was born during a full moon. The postnatal full moon is exact on April 2nd, one day after my birth.

Most charts won't have a lot of stuff like this going on, so anything based on mine should be taken with a grain of salt.

Prenatal full moon (Before Syzygy):
Moon location: Virgo 13* 17'
Radix Vitae using this moon as Syzygy: Cancer 5* 45'
Sabian symbol: PHASE 96 (CANCER 6°): GAME BIRDS FEATHERING THEIR NESTS.

Not seeing much symbolic activity on this degree in my chart with normal Arabic parts. My 2nd house cusp is one degree later. The only combination I found that resulted in a match, was using an Arabic Part I just made up off the top of my head... Ascendant + House 12th - Sun. I just somehow saw that was the right length after messing around with the geometry a bit, and it is totally dependent on Placidus being used.

Prenatal new moon (Syzygy):
Moon location: Pisces 27* 41'
Radix Vitae using this moon as Syzygy: Sagittarius 21* 21'
Sabian symbol: PHASE 262 (SAGITTARIUS 22°): A CHINESE LAUNDRY.

It falls right between my Part of Spirit and Part of Fortune. However, I couldn't find any other Arabic parts on this degree of consequence here, other than another made-up one like Ascendant + Syzygy - South Node. That's likely not impressive, though, since the South Node is mathematically connected to the Moon anyway, and I couldn't hit that degree without using the Syzygy at all.

Postnatal full moon (After Syzygy):
Moon location: Libra 12* 51'
Radix Vitae using this moon as Syzygy: Gemini 6* 11'
Sabian symbol: PHASE 67 (GEMINI 7°): A WELL WITH BUCKET AND ROPE UNDER THE SHADE OF MAJESTIC TREES.

This one is really interesting, because it's in the degree opposite my Part of Fortune. It's also conjunct a version of the Part of Cooperation (House 7th + Moon - Sun).

Postnatal new moon (After Syzygy):
Moon location: Aries 26* 42'
Radix Vitae using this moon as Syzygy: Scorpio 22* 20'
Sabian symbol: PHASE 233 (SCORPIO 23°): A RABBIT METAMORPHOSES INTO A NATURE SPIRIT.

This one is in the degree opposite my Part of Accomplishment (Ascendant + Jupiter - Sun), so there is some symbolic activity here, but not much.

So. if I had to guess at what these parts mean based on my own chart, assuming there is a meaning, here's what I would come up with...

The "Antesyzygy," or the syzygy before the syzygy, would represent that which is hidden and cannot be seen by normal means. 12th house matters, stuff that involves preparation for your life well before it actually begins. The distant past. If you believe in reincarnation, maybe it symbolically represents a life before your most recent past life.

The Syzygy itself, is still somewhat opaque, but involves stuff that is immediately leading up to the present, a lot more centered around what you'll deal with in this lifetime. Possibly your plans for this life laid out more directly, or your most recent past life situation leading up to this point. The kind of stuff you'd see linked to your South Node.

The "Postsyzygy" or the first syzygy after birth, would be centered around your goals and the personality you have now. Sort of like the Ascendant or Part of Fortune in a way, but perhaps zoomed out and seen from a more general, big picture perspective since it's less tied to the specifics of your birth time.

The "Postpostsyzygy" or the second syzygy after birth, would be even more grounded in the present material reality. It would be purely about your long-term goals for this life, and where you want to be by the end of it.

Bear in min d that I'm not an expert on this like others here are, and I'm just a really nerdy person that plays around with astrology software looking for patterns.
Wow, I don't know where you got the definitions pertaining to the different syzygys from but I find them to be profoundly relevant.
Each one you have given the definition for, which is all four of those that I recommend deriving from ones natal chart to use in the Hyleg formula, makes profound sense when I apply them to the four different Hyleg type Parts derived from my own natal chart.
My gratitude cannot be expressed adequately.
Thank you.
I hope to hear more from you in the future and look forward to reading as many posts you make in this forum, in the past, and in the future.

"Nerdy play" sometimes rules the day.
 
On second review, this morning, I found that I now had a few doubts about what you wrote about some of the syzygys.
You whrote:
"The "Antesyzygy," or the syzygy before the syzygy, would represent that which is hidden and cannot be seen by normal means. 12th house matters, stuff that involves preparation for your life well before it actually begins. The distant past. If you believe in reincarnation, maybe it symbolically represents a life before your most recent past life."

That is the one I took to the most as the Sabian Symbol for my "antesyzgy", as you labeled it, is from the prenatal New Moon I have and the Hyleg like Part is in the 18th degree of Virgo, the same one that was derived to be the post natal Full Moon from Yeshu'a's natal chart, and know that He was born about 20 hours [I forget exactly and don't want to spend the time looking that up] before the Full Moon. It is also the Part of Soul derived from the USA's natal chart. It's what you wrote about it as to "that which is hidden and cannot be seen by normal means" that really makes sense. [ibid.]
'' VIRGO 18°:
A OUIJA BOARD.
KEYNOTE:
The ability to contact deeper recesses of the unconscious psyche and sensitiveness to psychic intimations and omens."

What you wrote about the syzgy itself makes a lot of sense other than what you wrote about it possibly being a condition due to my most recent past life. I was in India my most recent past life and was a successful and rather wealthy Hindu business man. I knew Mohandas Gandhi and greatly admired the man. The past life was confirmed, and explained to me by my clairvoyant friend, whose name I have often mentioned and noted that she is quite renowned for her ability. As my natal chart is so much as like Gandhi's, I asked for input in the Jotish astrologers forum about this and the consensus was that I had known him and so greatly admired the man that I was born with a natal chart that is as similar as to have been possible at the time. I've already noted and posted the degree and Sabian Symbol for that, which is my "traditional" Part of Hyleg, and it is in the 3rd degree of Pisces. But I think that I had neglected to note that the second post natal syzgy Hyleg type Part derived from Yeshu'a's natal chart happens to be in the following degree, I.e. the 4th degree of Pisces.

What you wrote about the first post natal syzgy Hyleg type Part makes some sense as to what mine derives to be and that was from the Full Moon immediately after my birth. As you wrote: "The Postsyzygy" or the first syzygy after birth, would be centered around your goals and the personality you have now. Sort of like the Ascendant or Part of Fortune in a way, but perhaps zoomed out and seen from a more general, big picture perspective since it's less tied to the specifics of your birth time."
The Part derived is in the 5th degree of Aquarius [and note that my natal S. Node is in the 7th of Aquarius] [ibid.]
"AQUARIUS 5°: A COUNCIL OF ANCESTORS IS SEEN IMPLEMENTING THE EFFORTS OF A YOUNG LEADER."

I have identified that "council" with that of the "White Lodge", aka the "Great White Brotherhood", as my mother is alleged to have been Hannah, the mother of the Virgin Mary [Mariam, in Hebrew]. I have seen a number of Signs that confirm this and it was my clairvoyant friend that provided one of the more profound signs, and then later confirmed the fact, but years before that she told me that this was my sixth incarnation with the same soul that has played the part of my mother, and that we are called upon to play these roles whenever the earth is in a desperate situation, and that it won't be our last time. When that was told to me years ago, I couldn't see where the earth was in such a desperate situation. I do see that now. I have been to the "White Lodge", that is what happened to me at age 15, the first time I ever tried meditation. It was my mother that taught me the technique. My late yogi friend, Suryakant, the fellow that was identified as having been Sir Galahad in a previous lifetime, was most likely also an "Ascended Master", i.e. a member of the "Lodge"
So I get the impression that this syzgy is more about linking the past with the present, in some way.


The second post natal syzgy Hyleg type Part is what I find to be the most about a past life. Mine is derived to be in the 20th degree of Leo: [ibid.]
"LEO 20°: ZUNI INDIANS PERFORM A RITUAL TO THE SUN."

I started doing Vedic Sun rites the Summer of 2001 and have continued with that practice daily. That is likely why my clairvoyant friend wrote that she saw me "as a knight with the power of the Sun" on that post card in 2007. As I subsequently soon afterward learned from reading the book, "The Cup of Destiny", that Parsival also performed such rites and that it was his failure, at times, to do them that caused his failure to obtain the Holy Grail. I am ashamed to have to admit that I too have failed to do them some days.
Yet, I'm also reminded that Trevor Ravenscroft wrote, which He apparently got from the writings of Rudolf Steiner, that I may be a "substitute" soul taking this role upon myself. Why? That involves an explanation, that includes some conjecture, that isn't for public dissemination at this time. Yet, I have found that I do suffer from many of the same karmic implications. I guess that one might say, "they come with the territory", to use an old adage. I don't think that I have mentioned, not in this thread, that it is much implied, in Arthurian legend, that Parsival was the reincarnation of Judas, "the betrayer"... OUCH!

I do think that you are on the "right track" however. In that you find these syzygys to be both about the present and the past.
Keep at it, and I may possibly be in some error as to my own take on the matter. You have an excellent grasp on how the Sabian Symbols relate to ones' life and astrology. You could go on to be one of the greats in the annuls of Astrology.
 
I'm glad you pointed out that they seem different in your case, that means there could be something we could learn from those differences. I'm also fascinated at how much you know about your own past lives.

The "antesyzygy" being about that which is hidden and cannot be seen by normal means was the part I was most sure about, so I'm glad you were able to confirm that much.

The syzygy's abstract description also seemed to be more on point, and maybe it is more generally about whatever experiences/energies you're bringing in to a specific life, rather than which past life was most recent.

My mistake might have actually been trying to apply linear time to such things at all... sometimes I wonder if souls can incarnate at any point on the "timeline" to have a specific experience, skipping around in ways that from our perspective would seem to violate the laws of physics, so that what's most recent from the soul's perspective may not be that which is most recent in linear time.

Finally, your description of the second post natal one actually makes sense to me in a way. In your case, it is linked to a past life, but it seems like that past life is connected with karma you want to release somehow, something you want to have overcome by the time this life is over. So in a way, it may still be about long-term goals for this life, but those long-term goals could be the soul's goals rather than the ego's goals... maybe something related to preparing for another life, or using this life to break a pattern from a past life somehow. In a way I think that helped me get a better idea of what the second post natal one is.

I'm now suspecting that the pattern/connection that's important here maybe a bit more abstract than being able to point to any specific past life. Because people likely all vary in number of past lives, awareness of them, etc. But they would all have these points regardless.
 
I'm glad you pointed out that they seem different in your case, that means there could be something we could learn from those differences. I'm also fascinated at how much you know about your own past lives.
I do admire your ability at "critical thinking", and also that you remain open to others' opinions on subjects that you may have come to a decided conclusion about and have the ability to reassess those conclusions, and even concede to anothers' own conclusions [or so it seems?], seemingly so easily... although I did struggle here for a bit to think of a word better suited than "easily", and couldn't... but I will guess that you will understand what I'm trying to say here.
You have perceptively arrived to face the same question, about these different Hyleg type Parts, as I have... that is whether any are purely oriented to the present, any solely to past lives, and what about both?

I gave that some more thought today and have tentatively concluded that the "traditional" Part of Hyleg, or it may be that it is the prenatal Full Moon, as that is what is by tradition, I.e. the most recent prior to birth, what my Part of Hyleg is derived from, though that may just be by coincidence. My "traditional" Part of Hyleg, that which produces the 3rd degree of Pisces, has the symbolism that I deem to be why I was born unto this life. It surely seems to be specifically about the present lifetime. Parsival was known as "He whom reads the Starry Script.", and I believe, without the slightest of a doubt, that what Edgar Cayce said about natal astrology [as it was practiced in the first half of the 20th century] being dangerously corrupted from what the "science" was in an antiquarian past, although there also was still some truth in it. The symbolism for the 3rd degree of Pisces makes absolutely, undeniable, irrefutable sense, as it applies to me, as being "that Astrological Part to which all the other Parts depose to". It is the primary reason I did incarnate this time around, although it may also have been to produce the natal chart for the Nazarene. But whether it is for the revealing of the truth about Yeshu'a of Nazareth, or not, it is that natal chart that led to this greater understanding and why I titled my book, "A Template For The Time", and why I often say that "the natal chart of Yeshu'a is the Rosetta Stone of Astrology".

As you will recall the words of Rudhyar in his definition for that symbolism, r.e. "the actual preservation of the records is never perfect or total. Only fragments remain, significant enough to reveal the essential archetypal form."... that is what my brother initiated as a task, that he apparently saw as a noble deed to perform [because Edgar Cayce said that "true" astrology, as was known in that long ago past, was one of the most worthwhile studies one could apply themselves to, and because Rudhyar had written that astrology is not only a "science" but that one day it may be proven, again, that "it is the mother of all science."] When my brother introduced me to what he had learned so far, in August of '84, it was the Sabian Symbols that most impressed me. It was the Sabian Symbol for my natal Pluto that was the "light bulb" that clicked on in my head, but that symbolism for both my Part of Fortune and my natal M.C., and that the conjunction of the two, a 359 to 1 shot, odds wise, and being considered to be so auspicious among astrologers, was "the capper". Not right away, but it didn't take but a day or two for me to see that the symbolism was so appropriate to my life experience up to that time.

I've now spent too much time at this keyboard for this night and I'll return tomorrow, or the next day, [gee, I did write yesterday that I was going to stay off the internet for a couple of days, now didn't I? Opps...!] with any more I think needs to be said about those other three Hyleg type Parts as I think their symbolism might be as relative to time, and lives, past, and present.
 
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[and I wrote so much that I had to cut and paste the following as I exceeded the word limit in the above post... dang me.]

BTW, I only know of four past lives of mine, out of possibly hundreds, yet certainly dozens. I had long suspected I had a previous life in India due to my predilection towards Vedic knowledge, musical ragas, [I love to do kirtan] my inherent attraction to Sri Rama, the ease, I discovered I have, at using mantra, and that I find some women from India to be the most beautiful I've ever seen. I also know that most of my past lives have been in India, but only the previous specifically. Yet, that life, and the other three I mentioned [including the one as Parsival, that is if I'm not in substitution, and I'm not including the possibility of having been Judas] two were confirmed, and brought to my attention, by my clairvoyant friend, the third is one that I suspected and she subsequently confirmed [as to whether I had been born in this same maternal family lineage in America, I.e. as a Quaker of the same bloodline... as Edgar Cayce said that all of us are most often are born in the same bloodline. At times we are, or were, our own grandfathers, great-grandfathers, and grand-mothers as to the ladies. That was Cayce's explanation for why he confirmed that there is truth to the old adage, "Sons paying for the sins of their fathers". He also said that souls tend to reincarnate together, that many of the people you become acquainted with in this lifetime are the same souls you had previously been in acquaintance with.] as a early American Quaker, I was my own great-uncle, in early 18th century America. She also told me that the soul that had been both Galahad and Suryakant, was also in acquaintance with me in at least one more previous lifetime, [and there was an implication that there were two other previous lives together, and in both...] we were Templar Knights, after the Arthurian incarnations, and all with indications as to which we were very much likely involved in the crusades, as she spoke of an account she clearly saw in which Suryakant's previous life, was met with a terrible injury, or death, that involved the use of fire by the Moslems.

I can't recall offhand the city that the crusaders made a siege upon that was met with the use of something similar to "Greek" fire. Clarisse Conner, the clairvoyant, is also empathic, and in the process of "gazing" into the past, she could feel the burning sensation, the pain, that Suryakant had suffered. I, allegedly, pulled him out of a fire, but there was no mention of whether or not I had saved his life by doing so.
In that lifetime, or a subsequent, or previous one, I was executed by being burned alive tied to a stake. That revelation explained the repeating nightmare I had, along with my fear of the pilot light in the wall heater of my home, between the age of 2 and 5. It was that the pilot light had an appearance of being on the other side of bars, like that of a cell, and that the nightmare was of being in a dungeon, with a small, narrow, high window, with bars in it, and the fierce glow of an intense fire beyond it, and the fear I felt... at which point I would always wake up.
I believe that I may have been a victim of the Albigensian Crusade, or had been involved with Jacques De Molay. I have never asked Clarisse about it, specifically, I only asked if I had been executed in such a way and whether that was the reason for that recurring nightmare as a child... to which she did confirm.

...and, I just spent another forty minutes after I had written, "goodbye", and apologized for the length of this post... I hope that you find something useful from my effort.
May the stars guide you well. ptv
 
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Note. After reading my initial post to this thread tonight, written back in 2015, I was a bit surprised to see that I wrote that I found the pre-natal New Moon Hyleg type Part to be the true "radix vitae" of my natal chart.
I don't remember why I was so convinced of that at the time. I guess I never wanted to be so bold as to say that I was born for the purpose of, and have the intelligence and talent to, discern what are remnants of true knowledge that exist from the past.

I didn't want to have to hear from professional astrologers, well published "astrologers", and astrologers of renown, such words as "You dare have the audacity to think that you know better than us?" [as I did, more or less, hear, when the internet forum ACTastrology dot com. was in existence. In fact there are some that seem to think it was pulled off the internet because I overwhelmed it.] I have since come to terms with myself, and after much introspection, I have to concede that, yes, I do have the intelligence and talent [at least just enough of that] to make such discernment and have no excuse for not "owning up" to the fact and accepting the "badge" for that territory. There has always been more nay-sayers than believers when ever new ideas are introduced, when ever old customs and ways are declared to be outdated or in error... especially in error. [Yet, I will also Confess that I'm not infallible. I have made a few blunders, but I also caught those mistakes, and corrected them after I had more experience, and, or, additional knowledge... at least I believe I have. Regardless of my "batting average", it is the 3rd degree of Pisces that is surely my Part of Hyleg, my radix vitae. One should ever remind them self that just because your natal chart says this or that about what you were born to do, it doesn't necessarily mean that you'll be great at it. But one should at least try, don't you think?]

Just look at what the Vatican did to those astronomers that declared the earth orbited the Sun, or spoke up in opposition to any doctrine of that entity. It is not a step that I was ready to take, nor wanted to. This was not my chosen occupation, nor did I ever think that I would one day be called upon to write about it, or to speak about it, as I was back in the Fall of 2005 when, out of the blue, I got a phone call from the programmer for a major radio station, KOA a.m Denver, Colorado, and asked to give an hour long talk about what I had discovered, on a very well known, popular, radio program, i.e. the Rick Barber program, the very man that gave Art Bell his start in radio.

As that symbolism for my M.C. and Part of Fortune indicate, I am not indebted to any "school of thought" concerning astrology, nor any teacher, other than my brother for teaching me the rudiments. I do give credit where it is due but I am not indebted. That is a big part of the reason why I feel I am well qualified, as I am not bound to honor, or respect, any bit of "Traditional, or Classical" or any other kind of Astrology, that doesn't prove to be true, valid, or useful. I had to find my own path, a true path, of astrological knowledge. There is a great deal of "Trad" astrology that I haven't studied, and haven't addressed, and I don't expect to cover even half of it before my time is up [that is if I haven't already done so?] and that which I haven't is of the more occult, exceedingly technical, half of "Trad" astrology. But I also believe most of the corruption is to be found in that half of the craft as it is presently practiced. Astrological Parts as author, and astrologer, Robert Zoeller presented them, were very much corrupted, nor were they really understood as how to consult them... but it also seems that Zoeller had either never heard of the Sabian Symbols, or had never studied the use of them, and basically I have found that only the construct of the formulae to derive them to be unquestionably valid, and that pertains to only those that use the Asc., and those that use one of the House cusps, for the "personal point" to be valid pertaining to natal charts. I have also found that a great number of them have been labeled inappropriately for natal use... and it's questionable, to me, anyways, whether they are even appropriately titled for mundane and, or, horary use. As for I know little about horary astrology and am a relative "newbie" to the practice of mundane astrology [only at it the last twelve years, and only occasionally] ... but I am four for four as to correct predictions in that area of astrology, since 2012, with a possible 5th [as it does appear as so, but it's a long term prediction that was made concerning the USA's economic well being... which I gave a negative prognosis for in 2014. So far, it seems to be going the way I called it.] All of those predictions concerned the United States, and all were made by observing transits to Astrological Parts. The only prediction I've made for the USA, that is based on purely planetary aspects, is the one I made for the natal return of Pluto that is occurring this year, and that too is proving itself very noticeably, so far to date. There may be some truth to the Parts being related to certain Houses, but as I don't agree with a some of the planetary assignments as to rulerships of some Signs, nor agree with the belief that some are in detriment in certain Sings, and some exalted in a few others, while some seem proper as to both. That subject of astrology I have found to be so mucked up, so many conflicting opinions, as to render it worthless, at least presently. I thus have no use for such considerations in relation to Astrological Parts, and seem to have done alright in the understanding, and the use, of them. I also predicted that Trump would win both the Republican party nomination, and also the office, in January, 2016... and that was done by the use of Astrological Parts, but also with the Sabian Symbols. As far as I know, no one ever proposed that the Parts are symbolically relevant, until I produced that natal chart for Yeshu'a, and gave numerous demonstrations... although I think that Rudhyar knew of it, or at least suspected as much... he just didn't have enough proof to ever have come out a declare it, if he did.

I'm also ever ready to see a demonstration to prove that any technique is a valid one. I've always given demonstrations as to what I've asserted is valid, or proposed for consideration to which, and especially that which was previously unheard of, or had never been published. I expect the same consideration from those that cling to, what I've deemed to possibly be, dubious techniques and beliefs, such as switching formulae for the Parts of Fortune and the Part of Soul, depending on whether it was a birth at day, or at night. There are those that cling to that belief though there isn't one demonstration to prove it, not to my knowledge. Zoeller didn't provide any demonstrations for any Parts in his book, and neither did any of the medieval astrologers that wrote about them. Some, myself included, have come to believe that the Moslems' that wrote of them were merely scribes that recorded what they saw being performed in foreign cultures, yet I'm grateful that they did record those observations, otherwise more knowledge may have become lost by now.

So, if you will forgive my lengthy explanation, and my apology for having wrote what I did 9 years ago, then please note that, for what ever the reason may have been, I was in error back then for stating that I was certain that it was the pre-natal New Moon, the "ante-syzgy" as athenian 200 calls it, to have been the true "radix vitae" of my natal chart. The "Traditional given formula" is most evidently the correct one to use.
It may have also something to do, back then, with my having recently re-read Dane Rudhyar and Leyla Rael's book, "Astrological Aspects, A Process Oriented Approach", in which they make a very self assured presentation [I'm talking about Dane Rudhyar here, why shouldn't He have been so self assured. He may have been the greatest astrologer of the 20th century. I think He was.] about the cycle of the Moon from New Moon to New Moon, and that it is the cycle to be aware of as opposed to the cycle of Full Moons. But Dane, to my knowledge, has never written much about Astrological Parts, other than the Part of Fortune.

Most apologetically, and in humble gratitude for your patience, ptv
 
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I gave the matter of "why" I wrote that I believed the "ante-syzgy" Hyleg type Part to be the true Part of Hyleg, at least for me [leaving open the possibility that any of the four Moons in question, I.e. the prenatal New and Full Moons, and the same for the Post natal, might be found to be the radix vitae for any other individuals] but in my case I was saying that the key element to be of consideration was the pre-natal New Moon, regardless of whether it was the "ante-syzgy" or the one nearest before birth, the Hyleg syzgy of the "Traditionalists".
I may not have made that clear in those older posts of 9 years ago, and I made not have even addressed that at all, and that may have been for the reason that it could have been just circumstance, a coincidence, that it was the New Moon that was the ante-syzgy and that the key factor is the syzgy and not the phase of the Moon.

But I did finally recall that I had recently reread Rudhyar and Raels book and that the placed so much emphasis upon the cycle of New Moons and everything that occurs, in-between, to be of a significance as to if it occurs prior to the Full Moon or after it. What occurs before to be considered as "evolutionary" and what occurs after [while the Moon "wanes"] to be "involutionary". The two precepts to be understood as evolutionary transits are those that expand, grow, to evolve from what was in existence at the time of the New Moon and what occurs after the Full Moon to be what reverts back to that past, or this whole process, in perpetual can be thought of as "two steps forward, one step back", is how I kind of see it.
Life only makes sense if we evolve more than de-evolve, in the long run. It is apparent in the progression of the Yugas, from Satya Yuga to Dwapar Yuga to Kali Yuga and then evolving to Dwapar Yuga,and culminating in Satya Yuga. A Vedic concept that the entire cycle takes approx 25,000 years. [I, have a theory that the entire cycle is more to the approximation of 26,640 years to 26,784 years. As I have seen implications that 888 and 666, are not only significant in Gnostic Biblical lore, but also are significant in Astrological knowledge...and if you know of, or have studied any Kabbalistic astrology, then you should already realize the Hebrew text in the Consonatal Bible, I.e. the Tanakh has multiple ways of being understood, as it depends on which vowels are used in the reading of it.

There's an entire level that is all Astrological in meaning, or there is an entire level that is mostly Astrological, but as to how matters of Astrological concern are to be understood as to what is of concern to the level that Christians are identifying as the only true Old Testament. Rabbi Dobin says that Kabbalistic understanding is an understanding that there are multiple meanings and just as valid, just as truly the "Old Testament", I.e. the Tanakh, is to the Hebrews... or maybe it's just the Torah, I forget, but the main thing is that there is Astrological knowledge in the old "Urtext" consonantal version of the Hebrew Bible. The oldest known form of text. He certainly had me convinced of that after I read his book. I also found validation between the Sabian Symbols and some of the Astrological knowledge the Rabbi revealed in that book of his, "Kabbalistic Astrology".
It was for both the reasons, that Rudhyar and Rael put the emphasis on the New Moon as being the beginning of a cycle of significance concerning the Moon, and that the Hyleg type Part I derived from my own natal chart, using that pre-natal Moon in the formula for the Part of Hyleg, which then produced the same Sign and degree of the Zodiac as did using Yeshu'a's post natal Full Moon, and also is the location of the Part of Soul derived from the natal chart of the USA, which also gives consideration to the location of the natal Moon, all of which added up to being given so much weight by me in consideration as to concluding which of the four possibilities is the true radix vitae. It seems that I believed that I might be here to assist with the soul of the nation in service to Yeshu'a, or something like that.

The only thing I have ever done, to have ever produced that can possibly be said to be an effort that produced, or validated, genuine remnants of ancient knowledge, are these efforts at rectifying the present day state of corruption of a once totally varacious, known and understood, ancient science... and as I'm now 71 years old I doubt that I'm going to produce anything else that pertains to anything other than astrology, certainly nothing that can top this.

The Sabian Symbolism for all four of the Hyleg type Parts that can be derived from my natal chart are of profound significance to my life, all the more so with each passing year of life, and when I give my full thought to which of those four is the most likely, most apparent "reason" for what my life has significance to, I can only conclude it to be that of the symbolism for the 3rd degree of Pisces, as for what concerns my own natal chart.
That "keynote" that Dane wrote for the Sabian Symbol of the 18th degree of Virgo, "...ability to contact deeper recesses of the unconscious psyche and sensitiveness to psychic intimations and omens." I can only logically conclude is that what resulted from my having parents that were so avid students of the readings given by Edgar Cayce, who then were responsible for my own interest, the inspiration I got from reading those same readings from an early age, around 7 or 8 years old, and my attempt, and success, to induce dream prophecy, I.e. producing a clairvoyant dream state in consciousness, having read of the technique described in detail and what others had found successful using that technique, at the age of 8 years old, the experiences I had in meditation, and also the preponderance of "omens and signs" I had experienced from the year 2000-2001 to the present, though very significant, during which time, i.e. 2003 to the present, I met and have often consulted the renowned clairvoyant, Clarisse Conner, and that I did have at least two very "clairvoyant state" dreams that I didn't induce, or even try, nor give any thought to, in that same span of time, that it was both for the searching out what ancient knowledge remained, that which there are only remnants left of, as to what the true ministry of Yeshu'a was, what remained of what He truly ever said, [which Edgar Cayce claimed none of which is in the New Testament, or at least so little that one best just avoid reading it], and then a bit later on becoming interested, focused upon, what remained of true astrology, as Edgar had said there was some that remained but also much b.s added later on. That which is relevant to the 18th degree of Virgo is , or was, what only contributed to what my life ended up in it all being relative to, which was for producing the natal chart of Yeshu'a and, which in turn, has proven to me to be as close to being a "Rosetta Stone" to understand astrology, as unlike anything else, as for what has been derived from that natal chart so far. That all deposes to the effort and success of finding and validating remnants of true ancient knowledge. Which only the 3rd degree of Pisces is symbolically about.

I've even gone so far as to advise the "Traditionalists" that to object to the conclusion that natal chart is authentic, because some aspect, some belief due to Astrological lore, gives them reason to say otherwise, that they then must consider that technique, or lore, to be invalid. It either is the Nazarene's natal chart or it isn't. I am convinced that it is, as it is on the very date Edgar Cayce said it did occur, the fact that Pluto was on the Asc. and in the 1st degree of Libra and the symbolism for that degree to be of a perfect archetype, that Dane implied that the first degrees of the four Cardinal Signs would be found at all four points of the natal charts' axis, and that the chart I produced has those four points, and just only five Astrological Parts, out of the hundreds that can be derived, that are derived from that chart and which are Parts of major significance in any natal chart, also having Sabian Symbols so profoundly relevant to what is known to be widely believed about the life of Yesh'u'a, and are the only symbols that exist out of the entire 360 that are symbolically relevant in that regard, let alone the more than close to thirty more that I find to be spot on, that the chart axis and just those five Astrological Parts all occurring at the exact moment being of the odds that amount to in the four quadrillions to one. Is all the evidence I need to convince myself and I'm rather sure that there was no other moment that entire day, that day of the year Cayce gave, that came anywhere near those odds, nor for many years afterward or prior to, either.


[and I've once again exceeded the limit of characters in this post. To be continued in the following, then]
 
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The protestations I've heard are always about some planet being in a Sign other than what they believe, or were given reason to believe, and, or House placement, some aspect missing, or one that they believe should be there, are all due to misconceptions about the man, and, or also using invalid techniques and believing invalid [corrupted too, as that is also invalid] lore. That is why I titled my book "A Template For The Time, The Astrological Birth Chart Of Jesus", because it is a "template" to use as a benchmark, or as like a standard of weight and measure in form and existence, like those forged from platinum and iridium in London and, since 1889, have been stored in a vault near Paris belonging to the International Bureau of Weights and Measures.
While I have found that the significance of the Sabian Symbols as to their relevance to Astrological Parts, to the chart axis and all other House cusps, and the natal position of the planets are consistent throughout the span of a lifetime, however natal Astrological Aspects are [according to Edgar Cayce] only of affect, only in effect, when transiting forces cause them to become active, conjunctions especially, and that transiting aspects are only ephemeral, and that so little is known to be valid about the events in Jesus/Yeshu'a's lifetime, especially during the "Lost Years", and in particular when those, that are valid and known of, actually did occur.
It's that which is of consistent effect that is all that was needed to identify the natal chart and seemingly provide us with all we really need to be informed of, to know that the man was the "real deal", that is the man that the natal chart reveals.

The only other Astrological matter that I find significant is that there was a partial Grand Septile, complete but except for three of those seven points being unoccupied in the natal chart, and that they were completed by transiting influences, the Monday that followed what would have had to have been the first Easter Sunday, that followed the first "Good Friday" [which by Gregorian calendar was then on a Friday the 13th. What a coincidence huh? But a coincidence that has only existed since the year 2000, as it was on the 12th for the 400 years prior], that day which was the Monday that followed after the first Sunday, that, in turn, followed the Spring Equinox, amounted to being 14 days after what was the 32nd birthday of Jesus/Yeshu'a, whom was born on the 2nd of April in the year 3 C.E. [or A.D. for those that prefer] and thus had to be in the year 35 C.E. or A.D., and that Monday was the 16th of April. Rudolf Steiner said that the death occurred on the 14th day following what was the 32nd birthday of Jesus/Yeshu'a. If the birth was indeed on an April 2nd [Gregorian, March 19th, by the Julian, calendar] and I'm convinced that it was, and then if Rudolf Steiner is to be believed also [and why shouldn't I believe both him and Cayce? They have both proven to me to be correct concerning when the Nazarene was born and that a "Parsival" would be born just prior to the new millennium, and produce something of great Astrological significance, and that being relative to the "Holy Grail" in some way...and, I've heard some refer to what the actual natal chart of Jesus/Yeshu'a as being the "Holy Grail of Astrology". That too was of an ephemeral effect , as it was at the completion of which that the death occurred, and what an effect it had... and that Dane Rudhyar once wrote that little is know about the Septile aspect other than what Marc Edmond Jones wrote that it is an aspect of fatality.n It all adds up, it all fits together like a intricately designed puzzle. You can't make this kind of stuff up. To have had such a theory as I did, and then to find validation on the very first attempt [correct attempt as there were a few earlier ones that hadn't taken into account that a day needed to be added to all dates prior to the introduction of the Gregorian calendar. It is the rule that at every new century that can be wholly divided by the number four. Or, since the year 2000 was actually the end of the 20th century, perhaps it is better said to be at the beginning of the century that follows

Another factor for my conclusion is that Cayce admitted to be speaking [channeling] Saint Germain at times, and Rudolf was among the Theosophy members, was considered to be one of himself, and that Saint Germain was allegedly quite the influence upon that group, not to mention that the author I was introduced to as to assist me in the writing of my book, was Dorothy Leon, whom claims to be the only presently living disciple of Saint Germain, or was if she has passed on since 2007?...and that she was known to be an old acquaintance/friend of Suryakant, my yogi friend, whom was just as surprised as I was to learn that Dorothy was not only one of the authors my publisher handled but also the one He chose to assist me, after I asked my publisher to get me someone that could. Dane Rudhyar's first wife had been, the Theosophist, Leadbeater's secretary, and I can discern quite a bit of Saint Germain's influence in Dane's work, particularly as to how He re-imaged the Sabian Symbol for the 30th degree of Aquarius.

All of that has convinced me that it is these efforts as to rectifying the present state of astrology, the techniques used and the lore that is goes with it, and, or possibly specifically, the natal chart of Yeshu'a/Jesus, which certainly has greatly assisted in revealing what remnants of the science of astrology still exist in "Traditional astrology" as well as some that had been lost, I.e. the Sabian Symbols, which were re-ascertained by astrologer Marc Edmond Jones and clairvoyant Elsie Wheeler, in the mid- 1920's, although given in modern imagery relevant to the Occidental world. It all is relevant to the symbology of the 3rd degree of Pisces. The practice of Sun Rites only began at age 48, and they are what I needed to both sustain and "keep me straight on the path", to help insulate me from evil, or malevolent, influences...as the failure to do such rites is what Steiner said led to his failure. Those rites have been actually life saving but to which I also conclude so as to continue, to complete, the task at hand. The symbolism of the post natal Full Moon, that which produces a Hyleg type Part in the 5th deg. of Aquarius, that described as [ibid.] "A COUNCIL OF ANCESTORS IS SEEN IMPLEMENTING THE EFFORTS OF A YOUNG LEADER.", "young" is a relative term, and it is always relative as to ancestors, and while being "a leader" may be questionable, I do concede, there are those that see me in such a role and as for the "efforts", the only ones noteworthy are those pertaining to rectifying the present state of astrology by seeking out the true remaining remnants.
So, if I am the "Parsival", and the most significant thing I have produced from my 71 years of living, the only thing that is of useful significance to anyone else, is that natal chart and what knowledge it reveals, The only one of those four Hyleg like natal Parts I have that symbolizes that is that Hyleg type Part, that is the Part produced from the immediate prenatal syzgy, I.e. the Full Moon that occurred on April 28, 1953 @ 21:20:25, that was at 9:20:25 p.m. PCDT, and that Moon was at 08* Scorpio 33' 18". The ante-syzgy Moon was the New Moon that occurred on April 13, 1953 @ 12:08:50. That pre natal Full Moon produces the 3rd degree of Pisces.


[and I'm over the limit as to what remained, so then to be further continued in the following post...]
 
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I'm going to have to go over, possibly, every thread I've ever initiated in the forum, before my days are at an end, if this forum is to be the repository of all my Astrological research and results. I'd like that to rather be a book, and published, but presently that doesn't look probable. My publisher was bought out, the new publishers have not yet published the revised manuscript, with all the needed grammatical editing, the clarified narrative, the additional knowledge since gained, despite the fact they don't have to pay me a dime, they have legal right to keep all and any profit they choose to. One would think, how could they go wrong by doing so, they can't lose? The first printing sold out and the previous publisher kept all profit from that. I've heard from many people that, have said, they tried to buy a copy, or even just tried to find a copy to borrow, and have met with failure. So I know that a revised edition will sell. How many copies, is a question I don't know the answer to and I don't know how many copies there were of the first and only printing. ...or even if there was only one printing before the book became, and has remained, "out of print"?

As to what external validation I have for being convinced it is the 3rd degree of Pisces that is my radix vitae?

That astrodienst changed the data relevant to the day Yeshu'a/Jesus was born, most noticeably the location of Pluto, employing the fullest extreme said to be allowable by the original programmer, which was just enough to move it into the 2nd degree of Libra, as it is the 1st degree that is so significant and validating, even though the original data is what was used by NASA to get that probe to where Pluto was located a few years ago, while the alteration moved the location of Pluto at the time some 20 million, plus, miles... and nary a ripple effecting the position of Pluto more than three years prior, or afterward, [gee, how did the folks at astrodienst just happen upon an error 2000 years ago, that only concerned a span of 5 or 6 years?. They surely must have super-clairvoyant powers, omniscient prescience, or omnipresence I suppose is a proper word for that. Just, out of the blue, one day, someone gets a sign, an omen, a "vision", from that ability, or from metaphysical efforts or sources, that alerts them that the position of Pluto, that astrodienst has in their ephemeris, is wrong, but only for a period of five or six years, over 2000 years ago. Amazing!

Then there's the matter of the demotion of Pluto at the very next convention of the International Astronomers Union, which had been observed and stated to be, what seemed like an act out of very desperate need, immediately after I gave the first notable, first nationally broadcast, interview on the subject, on the Rick Barber radio program, December 22, 2005, which was unsolicited by me, a complete surprise to me, asked for in October of 2005, by the programmer for that station, and given on the date they chose, and that the N. Node of the Moon was in the 10th degree of Aries at the time, which is said to also indicate the activities of the World Servers, according to Rudhyar, when consulting it's position as regarding the mundane... and that Sabian Symbol being [ibid.] "ARIES 10°: A TEACHER GIVES NEW SYMBOLIC FORMS TO TRADITIONAL IMAGES." and that interview ended up being so much about the Sabian Symbols, that is to say 'new forms' of what were traditional images, even though lost for millennia they can still be said that what ever the imagery they had, that was understood by very ancient and quite foreign cultures, [as to the present Occidental culture, they are in a new symbolic form] That symbolism [the modern Sabian Symbols, those ascertained by Elsie Wheeler and Marc Edmond Jones and then deciphered and, or, interpreted, and then presented by Dane Rudhyar] that can only be interpreted to mean the same thing, but were symbolically depicted relevant to those ancient cultures, as to those which were lost and nearly forgotten, are those which can be termed, or labeled, to be "traditional images".

As for the reason "why" go to such effort, an effort I can only conclude was done so as to discredit my research and findings?
Well, if this work isn't actually an effort that has successfully discerned, revealed, and is now preserving, remnants of true, but forgotten and, or, lost knowledge from the past, then I suppose that is a valid question. I read about many "conspiracy theories", e.g. did F.D.R. know Pearl Harbor was about to be attacked, did Lee Harvey Oswald really assassinate J.F.K., what about Bobby, and Martin Luther, how did Thomas Merton really die? It's kind of funny, or it would be if it wasn't so much headache and heartache, to find yourself actually living one... or seemingly so, and be compelled to consider that you are.


Forgive me for the length, and seemingly overly explained, and abundance of detail, the over abundance if so deemed to be, as I felt it to be needed so as to both justify my changing of my opinion, how I arrived at my present conclusions on the subject, and to give credibility to why this change is a valid necessity. At least establishing the fact that it is the only credible conclusion I can possibly make given the reasons I wrote of above for doing so.

In other words, it was all "FOR THE RECORD" as these threads and posts of mine are presently the only record of, and may end up as being the only future records as well... regardless if they eventually prove they are worth a plugged nickle, or not. It's all I have and I may never get anything more, for that preservation.

I did set out, this past evening, to write about the Hermetic Lot of Eros and the Reverse Lot of Eros, both of which I have threads about here in the forum, which I initiated some years ago, and why I think they are so helpful in revealing what ones ordained purpose is in life. As what is derived for the Hermetic Lot is the symbolism that reveals the kind of people that you find to be your peer, of your true brethren, part of your "posse", your desired, sought after, [whether consciously or not] most suitable travelling companions on the spiritual path [or maybe ones career path, for those not so spiritually inclined?] that you are on, or should be. The "Reverse" Lot being symbolically those that will seek you for the same reason as it is relative to themselves.

I spent about 8 or 9 hours composing and writing this post... what I had set out to be, what I thought, would take only but an hours' effort.
I may stay away from the internet for a day or two, but I will return at some time in the future to write about why I think those Hermetic Lots are so helpful in understanding ones' purpose here in your present incarnation. If I should happen to drop dead tonight, I have at least made you aware of it, and that you should derive your own Lots' positions and try to see it for yourself in the Sabian Symbols they produce.
Keep the faith in this "science" of astrology, "true" astrology that is, and in the use of the Sabian Symbols in understanding your Astrological Parts, especially the Part of Hyleg, the "King of Astrological Parts", aka, the radix vitae.
ptv
 
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I gave the matter of "why" I wrote that I believed the "ante-syzgy" Hyleg type Part to be the true Part of Hyleg, at least for me [leaving open the possibility that any of the four Moons in question, I.e. the prenatal New and Full Moons, and the same for the Post natal, might be found to be the radix vitae for any other individuals] but in my case I was saying that the key element to be of consideration was the pre-natal New Moon, regardless of whether it was the "ante-syzgy" or the one nearest before birth, the Hyleg syzgy of the "Traditionalists".
I may not have made that clear in those older posts of 9 years ago, and I made not have even addressed that at all, and that may have been for the reason that it could have been just circumstance, a coincidence, that it was the New Moon that was the ante-syzgy and that the key factor is the syzgy and not the phase of the Moon.
I'm glad that you like the "antesyzygy" term I came up with to avoid saying "the syzygy before the syzygy" as a description of this. For some reason just read what you wrote and assumed the point was counting out more syzygy positions than people typically do, two before birth and two after. Which intuitively makes sense... if we're going to count special moon positions near the birth that aren't actually in the birth chart, why would only one of them be relevant? Seems natural to extend it a bit. Definitely appreciate the clarification on this.
The Sabian Symbolism for all four of the Hyleg type Parts that can be derived from my natal chart are of profound significance to my life, all the more so with each passing year of life, and when I give my full thought to which of those four is the most likely, most apparent "reason" for what my life has significance to, I can only conclude it to be that of the symbolism for the 3rd degree of Pisces, as for what concerns my own natal chart.
That "keynote" that Dane wrote for the Sabian Symbol of the 18th degree of Virgo, "...ability to contact deeper recesses of the unconscious psyche and sensitiveness to psychic intimations and omens."
Virgo 18 is actually the antiscia point to Aries 13, my own sun position. I always thought it hinted at something hidden beneath the "surface wreckage" of my apparently unsuccessful life that didn't go the way either I or my parents wanted. It resulted in me having time to study and think about a lot of things people normally wouldn't bother with. In your case, it was a direct influence of your environment, whereas for me the exposure to things like dream analysis and astrology was something that I was exposed to by accident as a result of my life apparently failing and me having a lot of free time, not a conscious intention of myself or my parents.

I can only logically conclude is that what resulted from my having parents that were so avid students of the readings given by Edgar Cayce, who then were responsible for my own interest, the inspiration I got from reading those same readings from an early age, around 7 or 8 years old, and my attempt, and success, to induce dream prophecy, I.e. producing a clairvoyant dream state in consciousness, having read of the technique described in detail and what others had found successful using that technique, at the age of 8 years old, the experiences I had in meditation, and also the preponderance of "omens and signs"
Hmm... I don't know if I've ever been able to induce anything like that intentionally, but there was this one time when I was about 5 years old that I told my Mom that I didn't want to go to daycare, and believed I was going to die at a specific time that day. We went anyway, but she drove very cautiously, and at right around that time, a speeding car came through the intersection right in front of us, after the light turned green. She said that if she'd been driving normally, it would have hit us. For me, I don't seem to be able to induce such states intentionally, but instead it seems like they erupt into consciousness when my life is threatened by future events. Another thing that seems to induce them is anything related to Islamic terrorist attacks. I had a dream the night before 9/11 about a man praying to God and asking for permission to destroy "The World Center" or something like that, and he was granted it. I also had an odd dream the night before an attack in London while studying a possible chart for the Kingdom of England someone gave me. I saw bunch of people who looked like knights with a red cross on their chest running around in the chaos of an unexpected attack. One of them stopped to warn me "it wasn't safe there," and handed me a scroll that said something like, "A wicked man of the desert will bring destruction to the place where the witches are in the saying." It didn't really make sense to me at the time, but it turned out it described the perpetrator and location of the attack that happened the following day perfectly when I reflected on it.
That astrodienst changed the data relevant to the day Yeshu'a/Jesus was born, most noticeably the location of Pluto, employing the fullest extreme said to be allowable by the original programmer, which was just enough to move it into the 2nd degree of Libra, as it is the 1st degree that is so significant and validating, even though the original data is what was used by NASA to get that probe to where Pluto was located a few years ago, while the alteration moved the location of Pluto at the time some 20 million, plus, miles... and nary a ripple effecting the position of Pluto more than three years prior, or afterward, [gee, how did the folks at astrodienst just happen upon an error 2000 years ago, that only concerned a span of 5 or 6 years?. They surely must have super-clairvoyant powers, omniscient prescience, or omnipresence I suppose is a proper word for that. Just, out of the blue, one day, someone gets a sign, an omen, a "vision", from that ability, or from metaphysical efforts or sources, that alerts them that the position of Pluto, that astrodienst has in their ephemeris, is wrong, but only for a period of five or six years.

Then there's the matter of the demotion of Pluto at the very next convention of the International Astronomers Union, which had been observed and stated to be, what seemed like an act out of very desperate need, immediately after I gave the first notable, first nationally broadcast, interview on the subject, on the Rick Barber radio program, December 22, 2005.
It's funny you mention the data changing and the IAU's demotion of Pluto. I was just yesterday thinking about that, and actually imagined the IAU decision as the outcome of a battle between Pluto and Mars for control of the sign Scorpio (the underworld), and Mars winning with Saturn's assistance. I decided randomly to have an AI generate a song where the god Mars boasts about his victory over Pluto. The song is very creepy given what you just told me. It talks about "pushing Pluto back," and "making the stars align again," even adding in "Pluto's name is erased," Almost like it knew exactly what you just told me, and was bragging about it...

I did set out, this past evening, to write about the Hermetic Lot of Eros and the Reverse Lot of Eros, both of which I have threads about here in the forum, which I initiated some years ago, and why I think they are so helpful in revealing what ones ordained purpose is in life. As what is derived for the Hermetic Lot is the symbolism that reveals the kind of people that you find to be your peer, of your true brethren, part of your "posse", your desired, sought after, [whether consciously or not] most suitable travelling companions on the spiritual path [or maybe ones career path, for those not so spiritually inclined?] that you are on, or should be. The "Reverse" Lot being symbolically those that will seek you for the same reason as it is relative to themselves.

I spent about 8 or 9 hours composing and writing this post... what I had set out to be, what I thought, would take only but an hours' effort.
I may stay away from the internet for a day or two, but I will return at some time in the future to write about why I think those Hermetic Lots are so helpful in understanding ones' purpose here in your present incarnation. If I should happen to drop dead tonight, I have at least made you aware of it, and that you should derive your own Lots' positions and try to see it for yourself in the Sabian Symbols they produce.
Keep the faith in this "science" of astrology, "true" astrology that is, and in the use of the Sabian Symbols in understanding your Astrological Parts, especially the Part of Hyleg, the "King of Astrological Parts", aka, the radix vitae.
ptv
I'll definitely keep studying this stuff for sure. There's so much to learn that's related to this, it seems.
 
You did coin a very good term there,
I'm glad that you like the "antesyzygy" term I came up with to avoid saying "the syzygy before the syzygy" as a description of this. For some reason just read what you wrote and assumed the point was counting out more syzygy positions than people typically do, two before birth and two after. Which intuitively makes sense... if we're going to count special moon positions near the birth that aren't actually in the birth chart, why would only one of them be relevant? Seems natural to extend it a bit. Definitely appreciate the clarification on this.

Virgo 18 is actually the antiscia point to Aries 13, my own sun position. I always thought it hinted at something hidden beneath the "surface wreckage" of my apparently unsuccessful life that didn't go the way either I or my parents wanted. It resulted in me having time to study and think about a lot of things people normally wouldn't bother with. In your case, it was a direct influence of your environment, whereas for me the exposure to things like dream analysis and astrology was something that I was exposed to by accident as a result of my life apparently failing and me having a lot of free time, not a conscious intention of myself or my parents.


Hmm... I don't know if I've ever been able to induce anything like that intentionally, but there was this one time when I was about 5 years old that I told my Mom that I didn't want to go to daycare, and believed I was going to die at a specific time that day. We went anyway, but she drove very cautiously, and at right around that time, a speeding car came through the intersection right in front of us, after the light turned green. She said that if she'd been driving normally, it would have hit us. For me, I don't seem to be able to induce such states intentionally, but instead it seems like they erupt into consciousness when my life is threatened by future events. Another thing that seems to induce them is anything related to Islamic terrorist attacks. I had a dream the night before 9/11 about a man praying to God and asking for permission to destroy "The World Center" or something like that, and he was granted it. I also had an odd dream the night before an attack in London while studying a possible chart for the Kingdom of England someone gave me. I saw bunch of people who looked like knights with a red cross on their chest running around in the chaos of an unexpected attack. One of them stopped to warn me "it wasn't safe there," and handed me a scroll that said something like, "A wicked man of the desert will bring destruction to the place where the witches are in the saying." It didn't really make sense to me at the time, but it turned out it described the perpetrator and location of the attack that happened the following day perfectly when I reflected on it.

It's funny you mention the data changing and the IAU's demotion of Pluto. I was just yesterday thinking about that, and actually imagined the IAU decision as the outcome of a battle between Pluto and Mars for control of the sign Scorpio (the underworld), and Mars winning with Saturn's assistance. I decided randomly to have an AI generate a song where the god Mars boasts about his victory over Pluto. The song is very creepy given what you just told me. It talks about "pushing Pluto back," and "making the stars align again," even adding in "Pluto's name is erased," Almost like it knew exactly what you just told me, and was bragging about it...


I'll definitely keep studying this stuff for sure. There's so much to learn that's related to this, it seems.
I think that you have coined an excellent term, r.e. the ante-syzgy, it certainly works for me. Yet they are all "syzygys". The one prior and closest to the time of birth, is by "tradition", the "Hyleg syzgy". So, maybe it would be better termed as the "ante-Hyleg syzgy", or it might even make more sense to apply that term to the syzgy that immediately follows ones birth?
You coined the term, so I'll leave that all up to you, I just like the term as it makes the writing so much the easier, it kind of rolls off the tongue...
I'm getting syzgy with it... bring it, uh,uh,uh,uh... Woo...
 
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